3dzapper Posted January 19, 2004 Share Posted January 19, 2004 What is that extra small coil? In the type A schematic the only inductors shown are the 2.5mH and the autoformer. Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3dzapper Posted January 19, 2004 Share Posted January 19, 2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Mobley Posted January 19, 2004 Share Posted January 19, 2004 Yeah, I'd be tempted to measure the DC resistance between the speaker input terminal and pos woofer terminal, both on the terminal strip. What's the connection like where that copper film attaches to the middle of that power feed wire? Can you bypass the inductor altogether for a test run? just connect the woofer wires directly to the input terminals? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leok Posted January 19, 2004 Share Posted January 19, 2004 KCM, A review of the Sonicaps website indicates to me that conditioning is likely to not be an issue with Sonicaps (not that you were concerned, but I should submit the correction for others who have asked about conditioning). Sonicraft appears to pre-condition. I don't know that they really mean every cap is tested, or every cap type, but at least they claim to address the problem. From the Sonicap site: "All Sonicaps are tested at twice their rated voltage." . . "For the mods which require a smooth presentation "unlike" that produced by capacitors where dielectric breakdown ("self healing") is an acceptable (admirable) attribute. For the tweak who's system is well balanced and does not require "coloration bandaids". For the hobbyist on a budget. Whether it is a power supply bypass, coupling, or speaker application, the Sonicap will be there!" Leo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Mobley Posted January 19, 2004 Share Posted January 19, 2004 Leo, Any way to measure the Sonicaps to see if their claims stand up to inspection? I'd be happy to buy some and send them your way. What size would be desired? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted January 19, 2004 Share Posted January 19, 2004 ---------------- On 1/19/2004 12:24:55 PM DeanG wrote: Did you scrape the polypropylene off of the leads on that coil all the way down to the copper? If you didn't scrape it, or use a soldering pot to melt it off, then there is a good chance it's not even in the circuit. Did you measure the DCR of the original inductor before purchasing the CFAC? A DCR match is critical in that part of the circuit. ---------------- This could be the problem !! That stuff is a pain to get off and if the connection is creating some resistance it very well could limit the bass response until some juice gets to pushing through the poor connection. Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leok Posted January 19, 2004 Share Posted January 19, 2004 Tom, I was thinking of getting 4 2uF for the Chorus crossovers .. I'm happy to pick them up. I think I should do a check and report. If Sonicaps are free of the conditioning requirement, either because they are pre-conditioned, or just don't need it (hard to believe), they are certainly the way to go for upgrades for people who don't want to or can't do the conditioning. Leo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Mobley Posted January 19, 2004 Share Posted January 19, 2004 Leo, Seems like it would be worth checking out. if they would provide a sonic benefit while eliminating a step in the build process that would be attractive. Are these caps well thought of otherwise? What are they comparble to? Auricaps? Hovlands? Jensen? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KCM Posted January 19, 2004 Author Share Posted January 19, 2004 "Did you scrape the polypropylene off of the leads on that coil all the way down to the copper? If you didn't scrape it, or use a soldering pot to melt it off, then there is a good chance it's not even in the circuit." I don't see any coating on the foil leads, the solder practically leaps onto it "Did you measure the DCR of the original inductor before purchasing the CFAC? A DCR match is critical in that part of the circuit." No, I didn't. Not even sure how......just measure the resistance with a ohmeter ? "What is that extra small coil? In the type A schematic the only inductors shown are the 2.5mH and the autoformer." All I have is the 2.5 mH foil inductor and the 3619 (T2A equivalent) autoformer. "What's the connection like where that copper film attaches to the middle of that power feed wire? Can you bypass the inductor altogether for a test run? just connect the woofer wires directly to the input terminals?" It's a soldered connection. Yes, I can easily bypass and try without the inductor. Ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KCM Posted January 19, 2004 Author Share Posted January 19, 2004 "(not that you were concerned, but I should submit the correction for others who have asked about conditioning)" Sorry for not acknowledging your advice, Leo. I do appreciate it, the practical application is just a little beyond me at the moment, though. Also, I didn't have these issues when I upgraded my GR Research Paradox 3's with these caps. "Are these caps well thought of otherwise? What are they comparble to? Auricaps? Hovlands? Jensen?" Jeff at Sonic Craft recommended these over Hovlands. Thanks again, everyone ... I'm not ready to give up on this, yet ! Ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leok Posted January 19, 2004 Share Posted January 19, 2004 KCM The technical difficulties associated with conditioning are a real problem. I think you're quite justified in not addressing it directly. I do think it will be of value to members of the Klipsch user community to better understand the magnitude and scope of the issue. You may have selected a cap that doesn't need conditioning by the user. I will give them a trial run without then with conditioning, and post the results. That will be one set of data points. I can say that conditioning definately makes a difference with Hovland and Solen caps. Sonicap claims to be different, maybe they are. Leo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted January 19, 2004 Share Posted January 19, 2004 "Did you measure the DCR of the original inductor before purchasing the CFAC? A DCR match is critical in that part of the circuit." No, I didn't. Not even sure how......just measure the resistance with a ohmeter ? Yes. See if it matches up DCR wise to the stock inductor. If it doesn't, then it's a good chance that's where your bass went. The DCR of the woofer inductor is designed with the cabinet volume in mind. Change it, and you throw it off. You still have the stock inductor? Swap out the new one with the stock one and see what happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted January 19, 2004 Share Posted January 19, 2004 Well, Ken, The crossover looks properly made. I'd say you don't like the sound of the Type A or that the K-55-M has a bit more output then the K-55-V, though it is not supposed to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KCM Posted January 19, 2004 Author Share Posted January 19, 2004 The bass is back !!! I hope there is a logical reason for this, and that I'm not nuts...when I bought the inductors I inquired as to whether there was a preferred direction for wiring (input to the inner or outer lead) and was told that it didn't matter. It was convenient to connect the input to the outer lead, so that's the way I went. I switched directions today and, voila !....all's well again. Bass is strong, the subs integrate seamlessly, and the subs volume and crossover frequency is back to the old setting. BTW, I measured the DCR with these results: Klipsch AL "+" input to woofer "+" .6 ohm, Alpha Core 12 gauge 2.5 mH "+" input to woofer "+" fluctuating between .6 and .7 ohm Ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Landau Posted January 19, 2004 Share Posted January 19, 2004 How do they sound so far? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lynnm Posted January 19, 2004 Share Posted January 19, 2004 I doubt that the connection to the inductor with respect to inner or outer connection was the real problem here. I suspect that you had a poor electrical connection at one or more of the inductor connection points and in disconnecting and reconnecting you wound up with a sound ( no pun ) connection. Congratulations ! I think you will enjoy the type A Xover. It must have been disheartening to have gone to all that work and expense to build the xovers and have them come out badly. The upside is you have experienced the joy of hunting down and correcting a perplexing problem. That generates a real thrill of accomplishment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted January 19, 2004 Share Posted January 19, 2004 Lynmm is right. Through the processes of desoldering and resoldering, you finally melted through the polypropylene and made contact with the copper underneath. There is no way reversing the direction of the leads "fixed" the problem -- the inductor works properly either way. At any rate, cool!! So how does it sound? Is the Type A as good as they say? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Bey Posted January 20, 2004 Share Posted January 20, 2004 Dean, I think he should give up on the A and get an ALK, pronto. Even if the A is working now. It's generally acknowledged to be a better design, after all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted January 20, 2004 Share Posted January 20, 2004 I detect some sarcasm. Well, the verdict isn't really in yet, so we'll see what he thinks after a few days. I take it you've tried the ALKs and didn't care for them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted January 20, 2004 Share Posted January 20, 2004 Randy built some ALKs and I think even traded some info with Al. Not sure he used the best parts but he was much more impressed with the simple Type A. Then again, I know how ole Randy gets when he gets irate at something. Randy and ole Al had some differences and there's no going back now. The same can be said for ole Randy and Dennis Had. Cary's name is MUD from now on regardless. I'm just glad he's not still made at me for flattening his tires... Still, I think the Type A is so simple and an easy make - cheaper too since you can whip a version up from your prexisting xover. Seems a lot of the tube guys are loving it. Then again, many love the ALK as well. The Type A just looks to be a very simple solution. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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