Al Klappenberger Posted February 7, 2004 Share Posted February 7, 2004 Hi guys, I want to make everybody here aware of the "New" Nakamichi. Remember the old days of the superb analog tape decks like the "Dragon" from Nakamichi? Well, sadly to say, Nakamichi has been bought out (about three years ago, as I understand it) and, in my opinion, those days are OVER! I have been using a Nakamichi AV-3s receiver in my upstairs den "theater" for some time. I got it on eBay. When I received it, it was working, but the rear panel was pushed in like an oil can and the top cover, which is fastened at the front by tabs in flimsy plastic hooks, was shifted sideways with the front edge torn like paper. I straighten all this out and have been using it with out incident ever since. As it has only Dolby Pro-logic, I started looking for a later model which would have the newer surround sound modes. A few weeks ago I saw a nice looking AV-8 receiver listed on eBay. Here is the exact text from that listing (quoting the seller exactly by cut-and- paste): "NOTE: Since I'd been using it all this time in stereo mode, I only recently discovered that there was no output through the Center Channel when upgrading to 5.1 Speakers. But the machine can totally be used for Surround Sound playback by very easily assigning the Center Channel to "none" (the channel info is then shared by the left and right fronts). The rear channels and all other outputs are in perfect condition. I will attach a copy of the quote that I received from a local service center--to replace "a resistor"--to whoever wins the auction and I'm fairly sure that you can have it serviced for a fraction of the price that this NYC repairer is asking." No problem, I thought. I won the bidding and received the promised estimate sheet telling me that it also needed several transistors. To spite a very good packaging job by the seller, including a total wrap in bubble wrap and two boxes inside the other, the unit came through with the rear panel pushed in, just like the older AV-3 was. When I popped the top cover I noticed the circuit board that holds the motorized volume control was busted off it's rear mount and the plastic front panel where it is mounted at the front was cracked. In my opinion, there is no wonder this happened. The board is under major twisting stress whenever the chassis is twisted. This is caused by the flimsy top cover that, if fastened with screws, would stop the twisting. As I see it, a bad design! As with the AV-3, the plastic hooks were broken. After repairing the bracket area of the board and 4 circuit board traces that were torn apart with the mounting bracket (picture attached), I tried to power up the receiver. NOTHING! The stupid thing was dead except for several front panel LEDs! It should be a simple problem to fix because it's probably just the relay that controls the power remotely not pulling in. But.. It's buried down on the main circuit board and is totally covered with stuff that is simply grafted every which way to the rear panel. There is no way to get underneath the main board to trace it! As I see it, a simple hatch cover on the bottom would have made service very easy and could also serve to stiffen the chassis if it was done properly! It was obvious to me that I would need the technical manual just to troubleshoot the receiver. I wrote this email to the service department address on the Nakamichi web site (again, cut-and-paste): Dear Sir, I have a Nakamichi AV-8 that needs service. I need the technical manual. Can you supply it? Thank you, Al Klappenberger ALK Engineering ............................... The following morning I received this reply (exact quote using more cut-and- paste): Dear Sir Thank you for your enquiry. Service manual is supply to our authorized service agent only. Please send you unit to an authorized agent for repairs. Best regards Service Support .............................. My spelling and grammar is pretty bad, but get a load of theirs: "enquiry" (with an "e"), "Service manual is supply to..", "send you unit to.."! Wow! To the point: How dare they deny a private owner the schematics and technical information on a piece of equipment he owns! I have purchased the technical manuals on every piece of McIntosh equipment I own, direct from McIntosh! McIntosh even used to include the tech manual with every unit they sold! Do these people think they are more prestigious than McIntosh! I was also able to get a service manual on my NAD 910 surround processor (strictly for curiosity because it was working fine). No questions asked! This policy is ONLY to protect their mass-production, over-priced service shops! There is no other reason for it! Anyone who is not qualified to service an electronic instrument will not even try to purchase a tech manual that will usually cost about $50. To deny sales of a technical manual is an out-of-date and narrow minded policy left over from 1960 to keep you form taking you equipment to independent repair shops! Another point about Nakamichi. I also own a TD-35 cassette deck in my car. I first asked the local dealer their price (Bullfeathers) for it. They wanted about $50 ABOVE the suggested retail price set my Nakamichi. Attempts to get the unit elseware at a reasonable cost met with one brick wall after another. I kept getting the story about how Nakamichi will not honor a warranty if it isn't bought through one of their dealers. What are they supporting, their products or their dealers? I finally found a small on-line dealer in California that got a slightly older version for me through the "back door"! The only difference was Up/Down volume buttons compared to the knob of the newer model. An older model but a brand new unit still factory sealed in its box, doesn't qualify for a warranty? STUPID! Man, who do these people think they are? I think it would be a very positive wake-up call for the new narrow-minded management of Nakamichi if their service department received a few letters (besides the one I sent them) telling what reactions their polices invoke with the owners of high-end audio equipment! Here's the email address of their service organization (HINT): servicesupport@nakamichi.com By the way, I will absolutely not take this receiver to one of their service shops for repair. If I put it back on eBay any buyer will also be forced to take it to one of their price-gouging repair shops. I don't want that to happen either! Then they win! I am actually considering gutting it for parts. The problem with that is that there are no parts in it that will be useful to me except possibly the power transformer. I may just destroy the d___ thing just for spite and take my losses. I did get it fairly cheap! I will also be divesting myself of the working AV-3s receiver very soon. I can sell that with a clear conscience as it needs no repairs. I just bought a reconditioned NAD T761 to replace it! I know NAD will sell me technical manuals! NAD even has the owners manuals on their discontinued equipment on their web site, in "pdf" form, for download. It's my opinion that organizations that withhold technical information in their products are simply short-sighted. All it does is drive the value of their products down. This goes for crossover network designs as well! Al K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZAKO Posted February 7, 2004 Share Posted February 7, 2004 Ive known for the last 20 yrs Nakamichi cant be trusted for backing their products. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mighty Favog Posted February 7, 2004 Share Posted February 7, 2004 This sounds quite similar to the time I wanted to get specs on a pair of Bose speakers from the factory. "We don't have them and your not allowed to know what they are." is pretty much what I was told by their corporate office. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.4knee Posted February 7, 2004 Share Posted February 7, 2004 I feel your pain, I have a Nakamichi CR-7A Cassette Deck in need of repair and am forced as you are to send it to an authorized repair agent. Additionaly NAKAMICHI no longer provides support for the unit and only after market repairs can be performed. Mine is stuck in "near" auto calibrate mode and wont release. I spent nearly a grand on this when I bought it. I undestand technoogy progresses but these decks were supposed to be timeless. That is why you spend the big buck on them. Although Nakamichi's mechanical reliability has always been suspect. I had a 682ZX Cassette Deck I finally got rid of because it had a mtbf of about 13 months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddy Dee Posted February 7, 2004 Share Posted February 7, 2004 That's too bad about NAK. You know all too well how they USED to be top drawer. I used to have one of their "low end" B2's and it was fabulous. Wish I still had it, but it was killed by a power surge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoggy Posted February 7, 2004 Share Posted February 7, 2004 I still have my Nakamishi 600. One channel doesn't play but both still record well. I hook it up once in awhile to record a cassett but the heck if I'll send it in to get it fixed now. hoggy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toddvj Posted February 8, 2004 Share Posted February 8, 2004 All they have now are stupid overpriced mini-systems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khorn58 Posted February 8, 2004 Share Posted February 8, 2004 my orig Nac 700 and Drangon are still going strong. love that warm nac sound Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Klappenberger Posted February 8, 2004 Author Share Posted February 8, 2004 Guys, It seems that I am not alone in descovering how far down the tube this outfit has sunk! I am still frittering with this AV-8 and have verified that there is something wrong with the electronics that operates the power on/off remote realy. It would be a very simple fix if I just knew what the circuit was! But for the lack of the schematic to find what is probably a $1.50 transistor, the thing will wind up destroyed because I will NOT let their "protected" quacks work on it! IDIOTS! Al K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdepot Posted February 8, 2004 Share Posted February 8, 2004 I've had good service performed by Electronic Service Labs (www.eslabs.com). They repaired a Nak 682zx which I bought over ebay and did a fantastic job. It wasn't cheap but it was well done and the machine works great now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted February 8, 2004 Share Posted February 8, 2004 Al, Maybe you could have a friendly dealer order the manual under their name, with you paying for it. Such a dealer may not exist, though! Nakamichi's slide started even when they were still really Nakamichi. My friend's Dragon broke down frequently in the 1970s, and he finally quit using it after many repairs and went with a Sharp, which never had a problem. The BX-300 Nakamichi and some other models had a cheap cheap idler mechanism which wore out quickly and rendered tape motion inopertaive. Nakamichi, rather than retrofitting decks brought in for repair, refused to pay a cent. The improved replacement part was inexpensive enough, but the labor was $100+. It was Nakamichi's bad design, and attempt to get by with cheap parts, that ultimately rendered the decks in question useless. A decent company would have stood behind their product. I still have a 680 for a play deck (record doesn't work anymore) and it works beautifully for that. But, yeah, a problematic company even in their heyday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Mobley Posted February 8, 2004 Share Posted February 8, 2004 I have an AV-400 HT receiver, which so far has been flawless. I also bought, before I frequented these parts, a NOS '96 MB1-s CD Changer, which was great until it started skipping. Then, I went out on the net to find a place to send it for a tune-up and found out that nobody wants to fool with it because Nak doesn't (and apparently never did) sell parts for it. I've been a Nak fan since the mid 70's but it's looking like this company has fallen to pieces completely now. All over the net all I can find similar experiences to mine (and Al's) where they don't even pretend to care about their customers. So, AFAIC, they're toast. Too bad. The DR-8 cassette deck I bought is the last piece of their stuff I'll own. Sure makes nice tapes, though. Hard to tell therm from the CD's they're taped from without getting picky in a decent resolution system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Klappenberger Posted February 8, 2004 Author Share Posted February 8, 2004 paulparrot, The idea of trying to get the tech manual through one of thier dealers crossed my mind, but you can bet they wouldn't do it for just anybody. Since I fix my own stuff, I don't have a relationship with any repairs shops. If anybody can find a manual on the AV-8 I would still like to get my hands on it! My only other chance to fix it is to compare the dead AV-8 to my working AV-3 when I replace it with the new NAD I'm getting. The two should be similar. Otherwise I will be gutting it for parts! I had heard about the cheap idler wheel problem on some of the older tape decks, but I wasn't aware they could not be replaced! DUMB! Al K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Mobley Posted February 8, 2004 Share Posted February 8, 2004 They can be replaced, I've done several of them. It's not a difficult job, but I've been buying the little o-ring from that Nak repair place for like $10 per so I don't have to spend time looking for a source myself. It's just a square section o-ring, looks a lot like one of the housing seals in an older GM power steering pump. I currently have several of the BX series decks, some repaired, some not. The deck is a very modular design, so it's easy to pop out the drive assembly and replace the idler tire. Any reads this and needs it done contact me via PM or email and I'll set you up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrench_peddler Posted February 9, 2004 Share Posted February 9, 2004 Al, if you do have to destroy it, take a sledge hammer to it, box up the pieces and include a note about how and why it came to this and ship it to the main office. That address is probably a secret too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Klappenberger Posted February 9, 2004 Author Share Posted February 9, 2004 Wrench_, That's not a bad idea! I wonder if it's worth the shipping cost to do that though? I have been bombarding them with emails, which they are ignoring, so they would probably ignor that too! Al K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheltie dave Posted February 9, 2004 Share Posted February 9, 2004 Al, Naks always were a pain on the repair side of the fence. I did a quickie search for Nak and www.libermansound.com might be the one repair place in California that actually may supply a schematic- I remember ther was a single place in CA that did such. What a PIA. I have an RX 202 that fires up and then loses power following a swim in the basement, and I got a quote of $200 to fix it in St. Louis. Fat chance The Nak decks were my first burning love in the audio realm, but they have gotten too long in the tooth to carry on the relationship. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Klappenberger Posted February 9, 2004 Author Share Posted February 9, 2004 sheltie dave, Thanks for the tip! I have emailed them. Wish me luck, or break a leg, or whatever will help me get around Makamichi's narrow-minded management! AL K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frzninvt Posted February 9, 2004 Share Posted February 9, 2004 Yep, you are all correct the Nakamichi of the mid to late 80's is long gone and so is the quality. I do have an Nakamichi DVD-10 DVD player (Retail $900), that knock on wood is working perfectly. I read all the reviews for it on Audio Review, man oh man it sounds like a real POS. My Panasonic puts a picture on the screen quicker, just not as sharp and detailed though. I am planning on getting a Denon 2900 eventually. I sent in my OMS-7AII CD player which was the best unit available in the 80's they wanted over $350 to fix it so I opted to just buy there latest top of the line the MB-10. I did not care for it much and sold it to purchase a DBX DX5 which was made in '87 but has a very smooth analog sound to it. Yes the golden days of Nakamichi are long gone sorry to say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garymd Posted February 9, 2004 Share Posted February 9, 2004 Al, Let me call my friend who owns a vintage repair shop. Maybe he's an authorized Nak repair facility. Worth a try and I know he'll do it if he can. Don't smash it to smithereens yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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