Who's got a favorite 6L6GC or KT66? 12AU7, too.

[Gilbert]

My favorite 12AU7 so far are the Bugle Boy's. I've listend to 2 different Mullard productions, GE's, and Telefunken's. The Bugle Boys sound best to me.

As for power tubes, all I've listened to are TungSols, I like them so much I know own 12 NOS TungSol 6550's. I was about to consider the Valve Art's, but Dave's comments spooked me.

Craigs comments regarding reliability of ebay tubes (because of the price) is spot on. I have bought a hell of lot of tubes in the past couple months, and have been burned once (actually twice, from the same seller). I have found a few solid sellers, and I've decided to stick with them, and buy only NIB NOS.

[Audible Nectar]

I have the amp back and working well, and thanks to Tim for allowing me a hear-see of the GEC KT66 grey glass tubes. A curiosity has now been satisfied.

Upon receiving the amp back from service, I played the RCA 6L6GC's for several days, to insure the amp was working well, and to get used to the RCA's again.....a little refreshing of the tonal memory, if you will.

Then over the weekend, I swapped in the GEC KT66 outputs.

There was certainly a much better result here. I got more of what was advertised from these tubes - a bolder bass and more mellow/rolled off presentation than the 6L6GC. Yet something still wasn't right. TOO rolled off, TOO thick in the bass, and generally "sandy" in it's presentation....although MUCH better than the Valve Arts were (which were admittedly not broken in).

So I got to thinking a bit. What could this be.....what other options/adjustments do I have.......let me see......

CROSSOVERS.

I remembered something Guy Landau said on this forum a long while back. He said, paraphrasing "If you use solid state, use AA. If you use tubes, use A".

Since I have BEC's convertible replacements in my Belles, I took Guy's advice, and converted my boards to the "A" version.

MUCH better balance and overall presentation. Not as rolled off - and to the degree that it IS rolled off, a much smoother presentation. Just a better match between gears, IMO.

The GEC KT66 does have a much "bolder" bass (borrowing from Wolfram here) - deeper and more present than with the 6L6. Sometimes, that was welcome, occasionally, it was "too much". Usually when "too much", it also came across as a bit "thunky" and "thick" on occasion. It is tighter and firmer, to be sure, but occasionally I was turning down the bass on the preamp (MX-110).

The Mids: Wow is this tube a "changeling" - a master of disguise.

Initially, I used Tracy Chapman (self titled). The vocal seemed a bit more smooth and rolled off - sibilances were at a minimum here. It seemed to be a bit "veiled", but not so much as to be an issue - really more "a quality of the tube" which some may or may not like. Overall, quite enjoyable, although I prefer a more "open" presentation.

Then I used "Tommy" by the Who, in particular for the Overture. A nice blend of horns, guitars, and vocals really show off the midrange differences in this tube. The horns come across as rich, warm, and lush - a very easy sound to get used to.

But the lead guitar was a different amimal. Leads FLY out of these tubes and connected speakers - and GRAB you by the boo-boo. Wanna hear what Eric Clapton's leads sound like (From The Cradle) - WHOA. You can nearly TOUCH the texture of each note, each sustained tone presented as a rolling landscape. U2's Edge? NOW you can be "at the Edge" and feel the bark and grab of the notes. The growl, edge, and texture of every lead shines through. Quite good, actually - and a bit of a shock, given how the rest of the tube presents itself. Sustained tones carry VERY well (in contrast to the RCA's, which seem to focus more on the attack than the sustain).

On bluegrass/flat picking style, again, as good as a guitar solo can sound.

Treble: It is a bit "rolled off" for my tastes, but is liveable. I read that the clear glass versions are brighter up top, so that's a good note to remember. On more "mellow" gear, like the McIntosh, the treble seems at times a bit too rolled off, and does have me wondering about the clear glass treble.

Overall, I prefer the RCA 6L6GC in this system though....the RCA is brighter up top, more open in the mids (I prefer the vocal of the RCA certainly, although the guitar mids of the GEC are very good in their own right), and the bass of the RCA, while not as deep and firm as the GEC, seemed less offending on those certain tracks where the GEC gets a bit "thick".

All told, though, a very interesting listening experience. Thanks again, Tim, for the sample!

[Audible Nectar]

BTW - did any of our posters do their listening tests on the Valve Arts?

[Allan Songer]

You're right--the late clear glass KT-66 has more extension at the top end.

And you know what--for stuff like U2 and Eric Clapton maybe the 6L6GC is better, I dunno. As I have stated many times here I listen to a very narrow range of music with my main system--95% acoustic jazz and 90% of that on vinyl. All I can tell you is that the KT-66 is a great tube for me and the 6L6GC isn't.

But then I think the Cornwall is a terrible speaker for loud electric rock and roll and blues!

[NOSValves]

Audible,

Few notes on the Valve Art

1) You should of broke them in (I can send them back since I now broke them in) But you still need to let tube settle in just from rolling whether new or not. It takes a good hour just for the bias of a tube to stabalize.

2) Valve Art has changed there KT66 since the last set I have but my audio memory since I listen to so many different pieces is short so I'm not sure if it was a positive or negative. But when I had the old style VA and GEC here the difference was very small with the only real difference I could pickup on was the sound feild seemed to rise slightly higher with the real deals. The tone seemed very much the same to me.

But in all this we have to realise the amps were listening too are very different. Then factor in the normal selling price of GEC and the risk factor of are they good, new, used, seconds? Will they last? IMHO its just too much money for too little difference. But Hey I'm pesky that way when I spend 6 to 10 times as much for something I expect a pretty good audible return on my investement.

Craig

[Piranha]

----------------

On 5/9/2005 8:33:02 AM Allan Songer wrote:

But then I think the Cornwall is a

terrible

speaker for loud electric rock and roll and blues!

----------------

Allan, I must respectfully disagree. But that's the great thing about the good old USA and this Forum. Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

I am more than happy to bring my NOSValve VRD's and Juicy Music Blueberry Extreme over to your home and you can hear Cornwalls sound great with rock and blues for yourself. I think you may change your mind. Let me know if you're interested.

BTW, are you going to this?

^{The iconic pianist Gerald Wiggins will be toasted this Friday at Santa Monica College. Gerry put the jazz program on the map at SMC and they are celebrating his contribution with a tribute concert. An all star line up of musicians will perform.}

^{Admission is FREE.}

^{Where: Santa Monica College Concert Hall on Pico at 19th st. in Santa Monica}

^{When: Friday May 13 8 PM}

[dodger]

These are my preferences:

6L6GC: RCA Black Plate

Ecc83/12AX7: Telefunken or Mullard

the same for ECC82/12AU7

Alternate 6L6GC: 1962 General Electric's

[Guy Landau]

Audible,

Have you tried using the 4 ohm tap of your amp?

[Audible Nectar]

Yes, Guy, it's the only tap I've ever used, based on many forum recommendations.

[dragonfyr]

Does anyone have practical real world experience with the new Groove Tubes 6L6's, since they purchased and assumed control of the original GE fab equipment and stockpile of resources?

Not assumptions and inuendo, but real experience?

[dodger]

----------------

On 5/9/2005 9:39:03 AM dragonfyr wrote:

Does anyone have practical real world experience with the new Groove Tubes 6L6's, since they purchased and assumed control of the original GE fab equipment and stockpile of resources?

Not assumptions and inuendo, but

real

experience?

----------------

Yes. I'll give them time to get all configurations correct.

Untilthen I'll stay with RCA Blackplate or 1962 GEs.

Allan: I have not really tried KT-66s, but if they are of the same quality as the KT-88s, they should do well over the spectrum of music.

[Allan Songer]

I might be going on Friday if I don't end up working really late. Wig is a great guy and I have been running into him around LA for the past 25 years! He made a couple of really nice records back in the early 60's that I still play pretty regularaly--one on Contemporary (Relax and Enjoy It!) and the other on Hi-Fi Jazz (Wiggin Out!). Truly an LA legend. If you can make it you should surely go for it. I wasn't aware that he was still playing--the last time I heard him live was about 3-4 years ago at the Jazz Bakery in celebration of his 80th birthday.

Sure, any time you want to bring over the VRDs and the Blueberry I'd be happy to have a listen. Not sure how much loud rock and roll I can take but a few minutes would be all right I suppose! I don't have much rock music on either vinyl or CD, so you should bring along what you're familiar with . . .

And you might like to hear some nice old deep-groove Blue Notes on my system as well. We can do a compare/contrast thing.

VRDs with the MC22, MC30's with the Blueberry, etc. Might be kind of fun. I am usually free during the day on Saturdays and Sundays with some advance notice. As you know, I'm in Long Beach . . .

[Guy Landau]

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On 5/9/2005 9:33:06 AM Audible Nectar wrote:

Yes, Guy, it's the only tap I've ever used, based on many forum recommendations.

----------------

maybe you should try the 8 ohm too.

[Timmikid]

Thanks for the clear review, audible and the pleasure is all mine!

Another question. I am also very interested in how the 6L6 GB Sylvania's will sound in the mc-30's. Now they work well in my Scott 272 (from Craig). Anyone heard these in them before? When were they made and to which other tube do they compare. Maybe Craig knows? Tim.

[Timmikid]

ehhh... the 6L6 GC and GB are compatible right?

[Audible Nectar]

Not in 30's, Timmikid. The 30's want the "GC", not the "GB" designation.

I've seem "GB" designated tubes used in 30's, but according to specs, the GB is rated for 360V on the screen, MC30 is designed for 440V (GC rates at 500)....seems to me that the GB isn't the way to go.

[Timmikid]

----------------

On 5/12/2005 5:49:05 AM Audible Nectar wrote:

Not in 30's, Timmikid. The 30's want the "GC", not the "GB" designation.

I've seem "GB" designated tubes used in 30's, but according to specs, the GB is rated for 360V on the screen, MC30 is designed for 440V (GC rates at 500)....seems to me that the GB isn't the way to go.

----------------

I knew there was something I read a while ago..

O well... Sooner or later I will get to know the 6L6 GC sound.

[Audible Nectar]

Try the SED Winged C (=C=) logod tubes (former Svetlana, made in St Petersburg, Russia). Terry and many others give these tubes very high recommendations, and are reasonably priced. Since they are current production, they cost little to sample.

Make sure they are the SED's and not the current Svets. You will know from the =C= logo and the fact that they were made in St Petersburg, Russia (supposedly better than current Svets).

I'll be ordering a quad of these.

As for the 6L6 sound in 30's, I really like them. They work well for me.

[Joe Auwen]

Timmikid,

Send me your address and I'll send you a matched quad of NOS RCA 6L6GC black plates to try.

Your 30s have a set of the Winged =C= tubes in them, so you can compare them to the RCAs.

[Clipped and Shorn]

There was a time (early days of hi-fi) when all the amps sported 5881 and that "look" was the cool thing. Today you never hear anyone talk about this tube and I am not sure it really was ever anything other than a slightly different (more cool modern) look. I have a mess of them here and they never end up being my choice for anything. Even the old coke bottle 6L6 seems to sound better. Anyone ever heard a 5881 they liked? I am not talking about them compared to all the snobby tubes.

c7