Q-Man Posted March 25, 2004 Share Posted March 25, 2004 This will mount to the center channel Klipschorn bass horn. I'll be finished in a week or two and take a couple of pictures when it is all back together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3dzapper Posted March 25, 2004 Share Posted March 25, 2004 Q-man those 311 horns are massive. ARGH,ARGH,ARGH. And to think SWMBO wouldn't even let me use 511s. Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Garrison Posted March 25, 2004 Share Posted March 25, 2004 Words cannot express how jealous I am. You have an *immaculate* room. It looks like I wish my house looked. I have a 4 year old son, a dog, 3 cats and 2 rabbits who share our living space. That white carpet would last maybe 30 minutes. Right now, I had to spend 5 minutes scraping off enough space on this desk to open the laptop so I could connect to the Forum. The toys and cat throw up are pushed off to the side for the moment, and the 4 year old is throwing things down the stairs at me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdm56 Posted March 26, 2004 Share Posted March 26, 2004 Q-Man & Edster, You are my heros. Ray, I feel your pain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyKlipschFan Posted March 26, 2004 Share Posted March 26, 2004 The carpet is an off white...yes, but not quite as white as it seems in the photo. We have a 2 1/2 yr old girl, and a 1 month+ old baby boy. (Thus, my late nights on here, I take the late night feedings for my wife.) We have Bissel cleaners just in case. LOL Most "crafts" are done on the Bruce 3/4" wood floors..LOL in the kitchen. Time will tell if we made the right descisions? I have heard horror stories of what happens to peoples stuff. (RF-7 copper cones, subwoofers, crayons or markers on Klipschorns, etc.) In my house growing up, we had dads stereo wich was hands off... well till I was in HS maybe. And a regular normal one we all used in the family room. Part of the reason I am using the pro version industrial La Scalas (2 pairs) in my own version of the "American Idol" theater/ stage/ Karaoke system I am building this summer in the basement, is this will give the kids a chance to perform, dance hold parties. I also have stage lights etc., etc. Perhaps, yes, they will crank it up sometimes, but they are not going to damage anything speaker wise. (Who knows what music will be popular 10-15 yrs from now.) Sorry to get off topic on the false walls. What was important for me was to share to not be afraid to try false walls in imperfect rooms. That huge Klipsch sound is possible, and when you get it right... OMG is it nice!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.4knee Posted March 27, 2004 Share Posted March 27, 2004 Q-Man, Indy, Edster, Drool, drool, drool! Excuse me while I wipe off my keyboard drool drool!! Wow your set ups look spectacular. Awesome!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipsch Employees Trey Cannon Posted March 28, 2004 Klipsch Employees Share Posted March 28, 2004 Not to bring everyone down...Indy and I were just talking about this Sat. The false wall he has works as well as it does due to the "true" wall on the other side. In testing the Khorn with 3/4 plywood screwed to the back, I found that the low end rolls of starting about 250 Hz and is 6 db down or more at 100Hz. Thus the 2*4 constructon in the DFH paper. In the wall PWK built in hope to test Khorns, he "stacked" 2*4's one on top of the other so the wall was as solid as it could be... Indy has a nice sub in his room. For HT it helps alot. For music, I don't think he needs it much... and yes it is a nice place. ...matches the folks that live there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdm56 Posted March 29, 2004 Share Posted March 29, 2004 Trey, Just curious: The plywood backing - how far did it extend out from the back of the speaker, from the "corner" point? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q-Man Posted March 29, 2004 Share Posted March 29, 2004 Trey, I agree that a wall constructed of 2x4s and drywall isn't the most ideal method to use for building false corners. I wouldn't do it. That is one reason that I believe that room corners constructed this way are inferior to false corners. I'm lucky, because I live in a block home and my corners have cinder blocks running in both directions. Yet I chose to build false corners so I could toe the speakers outward. My false corners are double 3/4" plywood on 2x6, and 2x8s about 10" on center. I don't understand the measurements that you have taken. I think a false or room corner is required to aid in the bass horn output from 250 to 400Hz. This is where the bass horn is weak. This is stated in one of the Dope From Hope papers. I don't think the corner has that much to do with the 100Hz measurement that you took. I may be wrong, and will find out. I need to pull out my measurement data from the last year or two when I was measuring different drivers, horns, and networks and see what I had at 100Hz compared to the rest of the speaker. I will be doing some more measuring this weekend, because I almost finished my Klipschorn center channel which is going above the TV . All I have to do is put the drivers in it. I'm hoping that I will get 40Hz out of it up there and I need to compare it to the mains. I also have a pair of stock Klipschorns in another room that are easy to slide in and out of the cinder block corner. I will measure them in and out of the corner from 400Hz down and see what I get. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Phillips Posted March 29, 2004 Share Posted March 29, 2004 James, We also tested my Klipschorns at work using 1/2 MDF 2x4 sheet attached to the sides, ending just an inch or so past the side grill. Q-Man, The results of the curves we ran on mine show a freq. drop off starting at about 300. It is 2 dB down at 300. At 250 it is 4 dB, from 100 down it stays about 8 to 10 dB down. This was compared to the same cabinet placed in a concrete corner. This MDF was only attached securely at the top of the LF section and at the back of the speaker to the floor. At the point of the LF side grill, there is nothing attaching the MDF to the cabinet. So, unfortunately, the bottom of the MDF "breaths" I do not have the room in my rental home to build proper false walls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q-Man Posted March 29, 2004 Share Posted March 29, 2004 Steve, We know that 24" isn't enought, but it still means that the bass horn is down a lot at 100 Hz. and below without a proper corner. I don't recall them being down 8 to 10db when out of a corner. I'll do some experimenting and measuring and get back with the results. I never measured one out of a corner, but I was impressed with the amount of bass that I was hearing when the bass horn was out into the room. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhawk92 Posted March 31, 2004 Share Posted March 31, 2004 I'll add a bit to the mix here. I would agree with Q that even in the middle of the room, Klipschorns pump out a surprising amount of bass. I had mine out in the room for a few days as I was applying BLO when I first got them. They sounded better when I got them into corners, but weren't tightly sealed since my house in CT had baseboard heaters. Now that I am in a house with forced-air heat, I have one speaker in a solid corner, tightly sealed with pipe insulation around the tailboard and sides of the HF cabinet that contact the wall. I don't have a second corner to put the other speaker in. For a few days, I ran with half a corner, and I could really tell a difference between the two. As an experiment, I flattened a moving box, specifically a "dish pack" box, which was a few inches taller than the bass bin and extended out about 36" from the wall. Even this minor mod made a big difference in bass output. I was not able to build a false corner in this location, as it would protrude into a hallway that leads to other areas of the house. So, thanks to input from Q, Edster, and artto, I compromised and cut a piece of 3/4" plywood with 40" tall dimension and 36" extension from the wall. I would have preferred to go with 42" which is the standard false corner dimension, but again, I was hampered by the hall. This plywood is then attached to the wall using 3 angle irons with drywall anchors and is pretty snug. Then I pushed the speaker into this "half false" corner, with aforementioned pipe insulation. It sounds good, and while I know this is not optimum, it suits me well and keeps the WAF high, as I painted the plywood (painter's grade) with the same color as the wall. Maybe someday I'll get to build false corners, but for now, I'm happy and have a good 85-90% solution. This is similar to Indy's solution, and I think it works quite well. Rob P.S. Edster's false corners are very nice, as are those rosewood K-horns. My audition with him, Tony Reed, and Mr. Paul pushed me on the way to get the horns, and I will certainly build something similar to Edster's corners if/when I can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ki Choi Posted March 31, 2004 Author Share Posted March 31, 2004 Rob: As they say...a picture is worth... Could you post a photo of your "half false" wall? Ki Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhawk92 Posted April 5, 2004 Share Posted April 5, 2004 Ki- Sorry for the delay. I'll bump this one up to the top and try to get a pic or two posted in the next couple of days. Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iwillwalk Posted July 21, 2004 Share Posted July 21, 2004 this is also getting talked about in the 2 channel section Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ki Choi Posted July 21, 2004 Author Share Posted July 21, 2004 Sorry, it was posted mistakenly. The moderator can delete this thread since I was pointing it out on the 2-channel forum. Ki Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artto Posted July 21, 2004 Share Posted July 21, 2004 For several years while I moved around a bit before I bought a home where I could build a proper room to house the Khorns, I seemed to always be left without a corner on one of the speakers. So I used a door secured to one side of one of the Khorns. While this was 'adequate', considering the conditions the speakers were being used, I wouldn't recommend it. As HornEd mentioned above, there's a reason (several actually) PWK didn't go this route, the least of which was simply the ability to get it through doorways & such in conventional domestic environments. and lets remember that a 4' extention from the edge of the Khorn mouth is the MINIMUM recommendation. If you're going to have to go through so much trouble in a somewhat permament situation just to result in a compromise in exactly the audio region that the Khorn is famous for, you should consider the possibility that the Klipschorn is probably not the right speaker for the situation. That is, after all why the Cornwall, LaScalla, Belle & Heresy came along. I've seen Heresy demos where they were sitting on top of Khorns and the listeners thought the huge sound field and extremely wide dymanic range at high sound levels were coming from the Khorns. Thats not to say that Heresys are equal to Khorns. But under less than ideal circumstances, sometimes the other models are a better choice. Now that I have the Khorns in a proper room with full, reinforced corners, the system is essentially flat to 16Hz without subwoofers. You are not going to get that with a shortened MDF extention secured to the back sides that is shorter than the recommended minimum in the first place. Not to mention the above comments by Klipsch Audio Tech Trey & Stephen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylanl Posted July 21, 2004 Share Posted July 21, 2004 Has anyone posted or know the true Hz results from the Dope from Hope plans (Built Correctly) vs. standard house walls. I always wondered if there was any fall off in db? You would think if the false corners were built and packed with sand the results may be better seeing that standard construction in home built in the last 15 yrs. is drywall over 2 x 4 studs on 16" centers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted July 21, 2004 Share Posted July 21, 2004 Some of us just have to compromise. A big room would be ideal, but I'm stuck with what I have. However, I do have Klipschorns -- and Klipschorns in a small room is better than no Klipschorns at all. I'm going with 44 inches, which brings 'em even with the front, and whatever I'm losing will just have to be lost. There isn't much point in having my speakers three feet apart. My project should be done within the next three weeks, and I'm hoping my "solution" meets with some approval. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwinr Posted July 22, 2004 Share Posted July 22, 2004 ---------------- On 7/21/2004 11:14:20 PM DeanG wrote: Some of us just have to compromise. A big room would be ideal, but I'm stuck with what I have. However, I do have Klipschorns -- and Klipschorns in a small room is better than no Klipschorns at all. ---------------- I agree with Dean - a compromised Klipschorn, even if it is only delivering 85 to 90% of it's potential - is still significantly superior to most other options. A useful thread to resurrect given other threads running at the moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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