Ctiger2 Posted May 30, 2004 Share Posted May 30, 2004 "SET amps are great, but nothing I've ever heard (at least for under 20 grand) has that exact Mac 30 sound. The Mac does one thing well, but what a thing!" Steve Hoffman - Music industry professional I think Steve has enough experience with music to know what he's talking about. Check out this thread for info on the 30's as well as what tubes Steve suggests you use with them... http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=20759 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audible Nectar Posted May 30, 2004 Author Share Posted May 30, 2004 Steve Hoffman's posts are a BIG reason I went with the 30's. Very convincing sales pitches on the 30's are contained therein. The only issue I take with his general opinion is that he seems to insist on the C20 or 22 for use with the 30's, instead of the SS rectified alternatives (like my MX-110 is). He seems to like the 110 generally, though. But if one is looking for someone to sell them on the 30's - go pokin' around on that forum for a while. It worked on me Edit: Here's some threads from that site: http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=20759&page=1&pp=20 http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=12017&highlight=MC40 http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=32767 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ctiger2 Posted May 30, 2004 Share Posted May 30, 2004 Audible, Steve's forum is also a BIG reason why I invested in a nice pair of MC30's. They really do bring the breath of life into the music! Simply amazing. Glad to hear you like yours. I am driving a pair of Las with mine. Couldn't be happier. Tubes-n-Horns really are a magical combo. I had forgotten how Solid State and horns sounded together until a couple weeks ago. My parents have a pair of 3.2's being driven with a SS Denon receiver. I listened to a couple CD's & Albums. I could not beleive how bright and detailed they sounded! Talk about an ear bleeding headache. It made me not want to listen to music anymore. Which is a rarity. Charlie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T2K Posted May 30, 2004 Share Posted May 30, 2004 There are Klipsch speakers that work well with solid state, without the harshness. Most 'loons' just haven't figured that out yet. Blame the horns, not SS. Keith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cut-Throat Posted May 30, 2004 Share Posted May 30, 2004 As usual, Not everyone loves Mcintosh or the MC-30s - http://db.audioasylum.com/cgi/m.mpl?forum=vintage&n=9466&highlight=mcintosh+30+joe+rosen&r=&session= Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Songer Posted May 30, 2004 Share Posted May 30, 2004 I miss Joe Rosen. Smart man. Wrong almost all of the time, but HILARIOUS. MC30s aren't for everyone. But Steve Hoffman nailed it--I too have NEVER heard an amp that has a midrange magic like the MC30. Female vocals are so real it's spooky. Trombones and saxophones too. But the best part about them is that they are CHEAP--you can still get a pair for under a grand and this has to be one of the best deals in all of audio. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ctiger2 Posted May 30, 2004 Share Posted May 30, 2004 ---------------- On 5/30/2004 9:46:49 AM T2K wrote: There are Klipsch speakers that work well with solid state, without the harshness. Most 'loons' just haven't figured that out yet. Blame the horns, not SS. Keith ---------------- Keith, I didn't mean to generalize all Klipsch with all SS. I was satisfied running SS Yamaha with a pair of 4.2's for 10+ years. But, I also didn't know any better. Once I heard the tubes & horns combo, I was immediately hooked. I hadn't heard music so smooth-n-rich and effortless before. Now, I think that I have become so conditioned to the tubes & horns sound, that the SS & horns combo just sounds too bright and detailed for me. I have read that some of the older(tubelike) SS works well with horns also. I would probably like this sound. But, it's not for everyone. When it comes down to it, there is more than one way to skin a cat and it's all about personal preference. I could see how some people could like the detailed sound. Heck, I lived with it for 10+ years until I saw the light... Charlie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audible Nectar Posted May 30, 2004 Author Share Posted May 30, 2004 "I miss Joe Rosen. Smart man. Wrong almost all of the time, but HILARIOUS." That's why they call it the Asylum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burtlively Posted May 30, 2004 Share Posted May 30, 2004 heck, i'm a big time amateur compared to you guys. but i have a hybrid jolida (not even the real tube deal) and i'm sold on tubes. can't wait to take the plunge with one of those scotts or maybe even another jolida. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted May 31, 2004 Share Posted May 31, 2004 I don't think Rosen likes anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audible Nectar Posted May 31, 2004 Author Share Posted May 31, 2004 I don't think he does either....and he has a particular problem with Mac. I rarely take shots at someone for thier opinion, but Mr. Rosen's opinion on the MC-30 is so off base, it's amazing that we are talking about the same amplifier. Of course, the pair he listened to may differ from mine, as mine were rebuilt, and who's to say what speakers, preamp, and tube set he was using. That said, the flabby bass isn't an issue here (and that's coming from someone who was weaned on SS bass), and harsh and gritty??? Not a chance! Of course, one can choose to believe him, and keep the MC-30's affordable for the rest of us who don't I also do not discount using SS amps on Klipsch - but IMO, Heritage and tubes are really a better bet. If it is SS on Heritage, one must be more selective. It's interesting to see just how different the Heritage can be from the changes in gear. Even my wife is sold on it (and it's HER room I'm doing this to). When dramatic results are produced, I no longer need to explain why I've spent all this time here, as she now hears the results. I have specifically NOT commented or prompted to her what to think - just let her talk (easy to do!). She has migrated from a Harley girl to Classic Mac and Klipsch Not only does it sound good, but it has STYLE, baybee - it passes the WAF test too. One other point: The tube amps REALLY make a difference in the 6U8 linstage tube selection in the MX-110. To a much greater degree (vs the MC-250 SS amp there before), the difference in 6U8 tubes is evident, as I was forced to change out linestage tubes last night (one of the westys went bad - those 6U8's ARE persnickety). It gave me another opportunity to evaluate the Teles, and I now think somewhat differently of them. I'll still be investigating various 6U8's for this (RCA, Siemens), but there's no question that there is more to the MX-110 than first meets the ear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Landau Posted May 31, 2004 Share Posted May 31, 2004 ---------------- On 5/31/2004 12:15:30 AM DeanG wrote: I don't think Rosen likes anything.---------------- He likes the Marantz 8B. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Songer Posted May 31, 2004 Share Posted May 31, 2004 He likes the 8B just BARELY and thinks it needs massive modifications to sound good . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnysal Posted May 31, 2004 Share Posted May 31, 2004 8B was NICE! BTW congrats on scoring the MC30s! Of all the vintage amps you could have scored that one would be in MY top four (the others being 8B, Citation II and Brook 12Ak). Despite all the hot air around here you should be very happy with the Klipsch/McIntosh combo. Quality sound and real balls, what more could one ask for? Warm regards, tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwm Posted May 31, 2004 Share Posted May 31, 2004 "The real question is which amplifier and loudspeaker combination most accurately reproduces a flat frequency response WITHIN .5, 1 or 1.5 dB at average, slow weighted, C scale of 70, 80, 90 and 100 dBs in a typical (what 12 by 12?) living room." The "C" scale is not representive of how you hear and its unfortunate that you dont have access to a professional grade SLM that will measure down to at least 30db or below. You would find it interesting to measure your listening room ambient noise level with a true Pro grade SLM. I have one ( ANSI type 2) and my country living room is 27dba which is subjectively very quiet. Now if you use "C" my reading is 42dbc. Most of that level is from low frequency sounds, which at that low of a level, we are all basically deaf to. I've evaluated several listening environments with this meter and the response from the house/apt owner is always amusing. The Radio Shack SLM is good for getting an overall level while listening to music,(or evaluating noise levels with broad spectrum sound) but is not constant enough in response to use for pure tones. The "A" meets the "C" weighting scale however when taking readings in high sound level night clubs or home stereos played at extremely high levels. With the Fletcher-Munson curves flattening out over 90dba, the bass energy subjectively and objectively is as loud as the mid band.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted May 31, 2004 Share Posted May 31, 2004 cwm, Could you give more details on your living room situation? For instance, I'm assuming this measurement was with your windows closed. But do you pick up any road noises anyway? Is this with a furnace on? Air conditioning? How far away is your refrigerator? Is your living room open or does it have closed doors? Et cetera. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwm Posted June 1, 2004 Share Posted June 1, 2004 ---------------- On 5/31/2004 10:26:50 PM paulparrot wrote: cwm, Could you give more details on your living room situation? For instance, I'm assuming this measurement was with your windows closed. But do you pick up any road noises anyway? Is this with a furnace on? Air conditioning? How far away is your refrigerator? Is your living room open or does it have closed doors? Et cetera. Thanks. ---------------- The living room is about 19' long and 14' wide with an open "L" section at the one end of 10'deep and 8' wide. I'm on a country highway and there is only a moderate amount of traffic. (the outdoor ambient noise is much less than in the city). I do the reading when there is minimal traffic and no or little wind (windows closed). There is a large archway opening unto the dining room and the kitchen is through a normal sized door off the dining room. The refrigerator is fairly quiet, no A/C and no furnace running. In the winter when the furnace kicks in (FAO) my ambient level goes up to 42 dba. I'm convinced that a quiet listening environment allows for more low level detail in the music. If you're curious, my system consists of a pair of LaScalas (AA xovers with Hovland 1mfd shunt caps in the highpass section ( I like it!)along with a Velodyne ULD-15 sub. I use both a Bryston BP-25 preamp and PAS3 modded and a Bryston 3Bst (sweet amp in my estimation). I also use "bottles" when the mood strikes----Dyna ST-70 recapped. I have a Thorens TD-125 with a small stable of cartridges, a Philips CD player (modded output stage) which delivers a passable sound with decent CD recordings. I have the SLM through my interest in community noise etc......very handy tool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted June 1, 2004 Share Posted June 1, 2004 Wow, what an increase with the furnace on! I've read in the past about a quiet room measuring in the 30s. It does seem that a lot of musical info is buried in ambient noise. And this would be exacerbated when playing recordings at a level far below the natural volume of the instruments played in real life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffinator Posted June 1, 2004 Share Posted June 1, 2004 ---------------- On 5/29/2004 6:54:40 AM Audible Nectar wrote: Tube amps would be good in HT, however, they are somewhat impractical. 5-7 channels of tube amplification can be prohibitively expensive, both in purchase and tubing/maintenance. ---------------- Well the maintenance end is one thing - I certainly wouldn't want to go through a "tube rolling" fit with 7 monoblocks, BUT.... As far as initial investment goes, I think the gentleman asking this question has already been in the ballpark of expenditure (with those Krells) necessary to go all-tube HT. For about $14K, I can set you up with a Bel Canto PrePro 7.1 channel preamplifier (about one of the nicest SS pres around for HT) along with a complete matched set of Wright Sound KT-88 based 70W monoblocks. From what I recall, those Krells sell for about $6K per channel, so you're not that far out of such a ballpark with this set up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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