dodger Posted June 14, 2004 Share Posted June 14, 2004 Hello: As a two (2) channel dinosaur I cancelled my subscription about three (3) years ago. About the only one I have read since has been Attainable Audio. This is not meant to say which is better, it is ONLY MY personal opinion. As the offspring of a Concert Violinist/Viola, and my Father Trumpet and Harmonica musician I have not heard any musicians playing behind me. The only exception to that has been when I've been running a sound board. When the Audio world magazines started devoting more space to HT, Surround Sound etc., I made the point not to renew. There is room in this world for both two (2) channel and multi-channel. It is choice. I made my choice, that review noted in this topic only strenghtens such and my decision not to renew. On a small Sencore tube tester, I have checked the tubes that came with my forty (40) + year old McIntosh and found very close to new readings. Looking at a catalogue a very good friend gave to me, I note that it is from the 1960s. Genalex KT-88s were $19.98 per matched pair. Boy, I spent my allowance the wrong way. dodger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pablum Posted June 14, 2004 Share Posted June 14, 2004 too(2) much Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audio Flynn Posted June 14, 2004 Share Posted June 14, 2004 Though, IMO, most PPs are a waste of money. Some high-end SSs are better alternatives and cheaper. SET is in a league of its own as it has no SS counterpart. As far as accurate sound reproduction goes, SET is it! PPs and SSs don't compare! Horns are meant for SETs! ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ and I thought we were trying to reproduce music. I am always open for a daily dose of enlightenment. ....still waiting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neo33 Posted June 14, 2004 Share Posted June 14, 2004 "Jeez, can't you Republicans ever get along" Dave, you just ASSUMED that I am a republican. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheltie dave Posted June 14, 2004 Share Posted June 14, 2004 Card carrying Republican on financial matters, liberal on many social issues, and amused at both major parties for their flavor of the month stands on issues of importance - like a major tax break based on how many tubes are located under your roof. Then again, you will always have wacked out liberals like Fini who will try to claim that tubes residing in garages ALSO deserve a tax break, and then whether tubes in cars, and homeless tubes also deserve voting rights, and then the cat is out of the bag...transformers, interconnects, and resistors demanding the right to marry...Blose gets implicated as a founding member of the Trilateral Commission...black helicopters circling forum members homes at night. As George Harrison said, "It's All Too Much!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bdc Posted June 14, 2004 Share Posted June 14, 2004 so tell me what is wrong with PPs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cut-Throat Posted June 14, 2004 Share Posted June 14, 2004 "You bet - Dave and I hold together the liberal Midwest faction - Although, I must admit that this 2 channel forum seems to be a purple martin house for republicans...." You're not alone - I'm from the Midwest (Minnesota) and to the left of many. Since I've taken Political Science 101, I'm a Yellow Dog Democrat. I voted for McGovern in 72, Carter in 76, Carter in 80, Mondale in 84, Dukakis in 88, Clinton in 92 and 96, Gore in 2000 and will be Voting for Kerry in 2004. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted June 14, 2004 Share Posted June 14, 2004 Oh, SET on my PP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chops Posted June 14, 2004 Share Posted June 14, 2004 ---------------- On 6/14/2004 5:41:53 PM fini wrote: Oh, SET on my PP. ---------------- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chops Posted June 14, 2004 Share Posted June 14, 2004 BTW, here's an email I sent this morning to the guy who does that column. "What in the hell is up with that stupid answer of yours in the July/August issue about Down with Tubes??!! Tubes are NOT a waste of money, but this crappy-*** magazine is! Sure, tubes may produce some heat, but who cares?! Have you ever put you hand on a Class A solid state amp before? Even at idle you will burn your hand! And you say tubes are expensive? What in the hi-fi industry isnt?! Tubes have much less peak power. Who gives a rats ***?! Tube power is also a lot stronger than SS power, and when matched with the right loudspeakers, you can get plenty loud enough. There are tube amps out there putting out 200+ watts per channel, and there are also hybrid tube amps to get hi power output. Yes, tubes do have more distortion, but its better sounding than the distortion you get out of SS amps. And yes, they may be a little noisier, but youll never hear it unless you sit 6 inches in front of your speakers. I am running a pair of 98dB efficient speakers with a tube amp, and I can barely hear any noise coming from the tweeters even when Im 2 inches away from it. And this guy who asked the question is an idiot too! You obviously dont know the first thing about tubes or solid state, so why even say that we dont know as much as we think we do? You would be surprised at who much we know! As far as Im concerned, you are NOT an expert if youre that bias and actually publish something like that. You can take your column and shove it!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted June 14, 2004 Share Posted June 14, 2004 ""A. Okay, Internet, get this: tubes are a waste of money! They're hot, they're expensive, and one prominent manufacturer of tube equipment told me some years ago that the tubes themselves have something like an 80% failure rate."" All tubes? I think that would kinda vary... I saved a 71A from the garbage, cleaned the green off the pins, and had it tested. 104%! Not bad for a 70 year old tube. Expensive? They need to hit more Yard Sales! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffinator Posted June 14, 2004 Share Posted June 14, 2004 Chops - please, please, pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeease tell me you did a little spelling and grammar editing before you fired that thing off. They will have a field day with the grievous errors in that letter. "Thanks, dude, you just proved our point about tube guys not knowing anything..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jt1stcav Posted June 14, 2004 Author Share Posted June 14, 2004 For all of my 26+ years in this hobby, I've enjoyed my SS amplifiers immensely, from Technics to SAE to Carver to McIntosh (and some others inbetween). I still like SS and always will...owning a Krell, Classe, Jeff Rowland, Mark Levinson, Pass Labs, et al would still be a dream. I never got into all those debates over SS vs. digital, SS vs. tubes, SET vs. PP, and so on...I like it all if it sounds good, period! There's no arguing that tubes can be expensive, hot, and short-lived, but I've seen transistors die and caps blow on good quality SS amps too, as well as 70 year old tubes that still operate as good as new. And Masters certainly didn't dispute the differences in a positive tone, telling the reader that there are both pros and cons to both types, and that the reader should audition each type for himself and come to his own conclusions. Instead he totally blasted tube technology in general as inferior, and to me that's very unprofessional. In his position that's very bad judgement on his part...I'm sure too, that he'll catch even more hell then what chops wrote for his anti-tube remarks in the following issue! It's a shame the magazine didn't remain as Stereo Review. Audio was another great read IMO. Now that HT is the wave of the future, publications such as those just mentioned are rare in today's market. Guess I'm letting my subscription run out after all these years (I never owned a HT anyway, and even my brothers aren't into it anymore like they once were). I'll keep Stereophile around for awhile still...at least they still like tubes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chops Posted June 14, 2004 Share Posted June 14, 2004 ---------------- On 6/14/2004 8:09:53 PM Griffinator wrote: Chops - please, please, pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeease tell me you did a little spelling and grammar editing before you fired that thing off. They will have a field day with the grievous errors in that letter. "Thanks, dude, you just proved our point about tube guys not knowing anything..." ---------------- Hey, if you don't like it, then don't read it! Besides, it isn't as bad as you're making it out to be. All I've got to say is "Speak for yourself"! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted June 14, 2004 Share Posted June 14, 2004 ---------------- On 6/14/2004 2:14:50 PM sheltie dave wrote: Pirhana, right now I have the stock that Craig had in 'em - a Mullard CV4003, a JJ, a Sovtec 5AR4 and a pair of EH KT88 for each. I threw the Belles on them last night, and with the Blueberry they blew past the Khorns with the MX110 and the MC240. I've been beating them HARD while home this morning, and they haven't missed a beat on anything. I'll switch things over to the Khorns tonight, but I know exactly what the Belle parameters produce regardless of room, hence their first in line run. I have a NOS NIB quad of GE broadcast 6550As that I'm thinking of tossing on em, along with Teles to replace the JJs and Amperex 5U4 GBs for the Sovtecs, but right now I'm enjoying the prizefight with the current contestants. (At Klipsch,)Like the end scene in the X-men trailer where the dude is holding the jet in the air with the very nice mechanical cyclic bass at about 30 Hz, there is a good deal of bass information being displayed that the 6L6s suggested, but did not nail. They are being nailed now, firmly. Even with the pedestrian to good glass installed now, it is a nice feeling to know there can be some improvement without any effort other than rolling, checking, and setting bias and voltage. Next week we head to Iowa for a wedding, and then visit one of my best friends in Nebraska. He has hinted about the three storage vaults of tube gear, JAN and military vacuum tubes he inspects once a quarter(he's climbing pretty high in the Air Force,) asking me if I have any desire to go shopping in a dust-free, climate controlled set of vaults where about 70% of the tubes stored are now labeled "obsolete" due to equipment retirement at SAC. I've told Colleen we can end up looking like the Beverly Hillbillies driving on Rodeo Drive if there is enough good stuff I see during the shopping tour. ---------------- Dave, Your welcome to roll tubes to your heart content ! But first off the JJ Telsa in there is a ECC99 not a 12AX7 and please don't put a 12AX7 in there You can however use a 12BH7 or a 12AU7 to your heart content in that slot. What your listening to in the front end is exactly what I used in that amp and I found it to sound the best but as we all know this is a subjective thing. I would however love to see you try that brand new quad of 6550s they could have a nice change for you. Now on the 5U4 I would not use that tube in place of the 5AR4 unless your going to try EL34 or 6L6's. The 5U4 will drop 50V off the B+ and run the 6550/KT88's below there sweet spot voltage wise it will however work ! Glad your loving your new toys ! Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffinator Posted June 15, 2004 Share Posted June 15, 2004 ---------------- On 6/14/2004 8:24:25 PM chops wrote: Hey, if you don't like it, then don't read it! Besides, it isn't as bad as you're making it out to be. All I've got to say is "Speak for yourself"! ---------------- You're missing my point. If you're going to send a hate letter, it is meet to be sure it looks like something an intelligent adult wrote, not a teenager that flunked English class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piranha Posted June 15, 2004 Share Posted June 15, 2004 ---------------- On 6/14/2004 5:30:56 PM Cut-Throat wrote: I voted for McGovern in 72, Carter in 76, Carter in 80, Mondale in 84, Dukakis in 88, Clinton in 92 and 96, Gore in 2000 and will be Voting for Kerry in 2004. ---------------- Please accept my heartfelt condolensces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdm56 Posted June 15, 2004 Share Posted June 15, 2004 Let's see, what did Mr. Masters say? Relative to solid state devices, he said that tubes are: A - hot B - noisey C - have high levels of distortion D - are unreliable E - sound no better F - are expensive Gee, sounds about right to me. The only place he may have over-stepped is in categorically saying they sound no better. It is probable that somewhere there is a tube amp that sounds "better" than a particular solid state amp. Of course, you'd have to define better, because that gets into the subjective, where all bets are off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audible Nectar Posted June 15, 2004 Share Posted June 15, 2004 Fini uttered: "Oh, SET on my PP." HE SCORES!!!!!!!! Congrats, Fini, my monitor thanks you for the cup of coffee....... BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheltie dave Posted June 15, 2004 Share Posted June 15, 2004 Fini, I saw a set of Magnavox stand alone speakers last night that were calling out for you, desiring to pass under the Statue of Liberty that stands by your garage for old audio. They were the size of Belles with cute stub legs, red mahogany hardwood, and had a fifteen inch woofer, a ten inch mid woofer, and a one inch horn tweeter each, with a blanked off cutout for the second horn tweeter. The real interesting twist was they were self powered with some bodacious Magnavox 6v6 output tube amps! Each mono bloc had eight(8!) 6v6s, two rectifiers(5AR4s) and a few pre tubes. They sounded real sweet for a 6v6, and cranked. The guy was asking $200 for the pair, and they would look gorgeous in someone's house when refurbed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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