damonrpayne Posted July 13, 2004 Share Posted July 13, 2004 I'm not claiming there IS a difference in wire and such, only implying that people "in the biz" know there isn't or they'd be mastering recordings with diamond coated microphones ran with oxygen free platinum wire blah blah blah. They aren't, so there isn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Champagne taste beer budget Posted July 13, 2004 Share Posted July 13, 2004 Thanks for the link, Tom. Read the whole thing and it appears that Ray knows his way around equipment. Dare I say it in public, but I agreee with him that at the frequencies we are dealing with and the lengths of the wires, any competently designed and constructed wire should do just fine. If YOU hear a difference, good for you. Just don't try and make me believe that I should hear it too. If you wanna drive a Chevy/Ford/Dodge/Toyota/Range Rover truck, fine, but don't tell me I'm dumb for driving a Range Rover/Toyota/Dodge/Ford/Chevy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dantfmly Posted July 13, 2004 Share Posted July 13, 2004 ---------------- On 7/13/2004 6:46:37 PM Champagne taste beer budget wrote: Thanks for the link, Tom. Read the whole thing and it appears that Ray knows his way around equipment. Dare I say it in public, but I agreee with him that at the frequencies we are dealing with and the lengths of the wires, any competently designed and constructed wire should do just fine. If YOU hear a difference, good for you. Just don't try and make me believe that I should hear it too. If you wanna drive a Chevy/Ford/Dodge/Toyota/Range Rover truck, fine, but don't tell me I'm dumb for driving a Range Rover/Toyota/Dodge/Ford/Chevy! ---------------- well said. I agree completely Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dale W Posted July 13, 2004 Share Posted July 13, 2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted July 13, 2004 Share Posted July 13, 2004 You're copping out Dman. You must have pounded out 10,000 keystrokes defending the wire thing about a month ago. Not only that, but you put after your initials on just about every post anyways. I gave up on the wire debate after I started poking around inside of gear and building crossovers. I get dozens of questions a month on internal speaker cabling -- and I have to break their heart by telling them the speaker leads are in series with capacitors and resistors using 20 AWG. I do use 7/9 silver wire on my crossovers, but not because I think there is any sonic benefit. I had it on hand, it looks really cool when you twist it up, and it won't turn green. Another dozen or so boards and it will be gone -- and I'll switch to Litz magnet wire (because it looks really cool, and it won't turn green). I do think maybe it's a good idea to buy copper cabling a little longer than you need, and cut off a couple of inches from each end every few years. It DOES oxidize, and copper with heavy oxidation will effect the HF response. Analog does have one thing in common with digital -- it's either "on" or "off". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-MAN Posted July 14, 2004 Share Posted July 14, 2004 Dean, I put in an EXTRA in that post so that Gil would know that I was TEASING (it's a wink)... I always put a wink by by my initials to imply that everything I post should be taken with a "wink" or at least a grain of salt...after all, it's only my opinion. So I'm not copping out! How was I to know that Tom Brennan has some undealt-with "wiring issues"? - there see that, Tom! IT'S A WINK! MEANS I'M KIDDING! SHEESH! DM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich0372 Posted July 16, 2004 Share Posted July 16, 2004 I'm a firm believer that speaker wire does matter I had montser cable bi-wires on my mains and then tryed MIT which just isn't a wire it has a network in the wire for highs and mids and then a seperate on for bass. when I hooked them up I noticed a noticable difference bass was more cleaner and hit harder and the mids and highs more much cleaner So anybody how thinks cable is just cable try MIT and then come back and say that Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBrennan Posted July 17, 2004 Share Posted July 17, 2004 Rich---Please explain how changing wire decreases distortion and changes box alingment. When making claims at odds with accepted acientific and engineering practices one must be prepared to defend and explain. Some MIT wires actually have a filter built in, one can easily see how such a filter will change the sound. Though why one would use such a filter is, ah, odd. And such an arrangement is not accurate. I suspect your MITs are changing the frequency response and giving you the subjective effects you describe. Problem is that wires shouldn't act as EQ. And frankly, you may simply be delusional and imagining the changes. You wouldn't be the first, I've had delusional audio experiences myself so I've no doubt of your ability to be deluded. It's not disputed that wires CAN be made to change the sound but then such wires are by their very nature inaccurate. I've no doubt that some audiophiles are using wires that act as EQ, active EQ being out of fashion with the hand-wringing Nellie-Belles that make up so much of "high-end" audio but EQ by means of wires being acceptable to them. Go figure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radiob Posted July 17, 2004 Share Posted July 17, 2004 Check my post from yesterday on my new Kimbers. They do make a difference, but the cost is high. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soundthought Posted July 17, 2004 Share Posted July 17, 2004 wire............sigh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IB Slammin Posted July 17, 2004 Share Posted July 17, 2004 ---------------- On 7/13/2004 3:34:51 PM TBrennan wrote: D-Man---Gil certainly knows his stuff, he's shown me alot more than you have. You argue by assertion, as Gil said, it's your religion. Prove that 2 wires (yeah wires, in my world cables are the things we lift 300 ton loads with) that are properly designed to pass the entire audio signal sound different, prove it, don't just assert it. Fact is that nobody has ever proved such a thing in double-blind tests or using scientific method. Of course we can design wire that will sound different; 300' of 36 gauge will have frequency response problems but then that wouldn't be a proper wire. This wires thing is the biggest con-job in the history of audio. I'll ask you a simple question Dman: if such a simple thing as wire makes such a big difference how come it slipped right by Wente, Thuras, Olson, Hilliard, Lansing, Fletcher, Klipsch and all the other scientists (yes, scientists) and engineers that actually invented this stuff we listen to? Guys that had the resources of Bell Labs, RCA and MGM behind them. The guys that invented compression drivers, basshorns, 4" edgewound voicecoils, the 300B and 2A3 tubes and amps that used them, microphones and sound recording itself; how did the wire thing slip past those guys but not past some LSD addled baby-boomer "audiophile"? Eh? Tell me. And don't tell it's because we have better gear, those were the guys with better gear and they were right at their recording source, not listening several generations down as we do. You guys oughta be following the wire discussion over on the Altec board. Some engineer with profound experience is making mincemeat of the wire fetishists over there. I wish I knew a fraction of what that fella knows, it's also obvious that the wire weirdos do know ONLY a fraction of what he knows. You know one thing about "horndom" was that horns being unfashionable in high-end circles most hornys were pragmatic, mechanical "show me" kinda guys with a low threshold for bull****. Now that's changing; to some extent because some SET cultists, many of whom are SETists first and hornys second, are infecting the horn world with lots of cockamamie "high end" nonsense. I feel better now. I need to rant on this once in awhile. I can't stand all this bull****. ---------------- Tommy, I pretty much agree, but you need to get off of the "LSD addled baby-boomers". ......What were we talking about?........ Terry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artto Posted July 19, 2004 Share Posted July 19, 2004 ---------------- On 7/10/2004 9:43:06 PM bcmiller wrote: Hi, I noticed in my recently purchased RC35, RB35, and RW12 that they now come with Monster Cable inside. I have been debating if it truely provides a performance increase by putting high end cable for my video and audio connections. I am purchasing DENON 3805 and DENON DVD-2900, Zenith DIRECTV HD Reciver, with MIT-HD 46" TV.... ---------------- Last year at the Klipsch tour in Indy, at lunch with one of the Klipsch engineers, I brought up the Klipsch using Monster Cable thing asking what were their reasons for doin so? His response was that it was simply a 'cross branding marketing' effort where brand name recognition of each company's product reinforces the other's. . Just use high quality parts and connections and you'll be fine. Black magic and snake oil is not required Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich0372 Posted July 19, 2004 Share Posted July 19, 2004 Hey all I know is upgrading my wire made a difference for the better in my system why would they make different wire if there was no difference???? Why would they have speaker wire that cost $1000s??? here is MIT link for those of you non-believers www.mitcable.com Read for yourself better yet just try themGo to the site it will explain better than. I can I'm not saying that MIT is the last word in speaker wire {there are other companies out there} it is just am example that you get what you pay for Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cal Blacksmith Posted July 19, 2004 Share Posted July 19, 2004 ---------------- On 7/19/2004 2:58:14 PM rich0372 wrote: Hey all I know is upgrading my wire made a difference for the better in my system placebo effect why would they make different wire if there was no difference???? marketing Why would they have speaker wire that cost $1000s??? to make obscene profits here is MIT link for those of you non-believers your link is dead www.mitcable.com Read for yourself better yet just try themGo to the site it will explain better than. I can I'm not saying that MIT is the last word in speaker wire {there are other companies out there} it is just am example that you get what you pay for Rich ---------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich0372 Posted July 19, 2004 Share Posted July 19, 2004 heres the Mit site again www.mitcables.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBrennan Posted July 19, 2004 Share Posted July 19, 2004 Rich---You seem awfully naive. Are you an adult? Seriously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich0372 Posted July 19, 2004 Share Posted July 19, 2004 Why do you say that???? I'm 32 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBrennan Posted July 19, 2004 Share Posted July 19, 2004 Rich---Well frankly you ask some questions that seem to betray a lack of experience in the world. And you display a faith in the good motives of businessmen that I find naive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WMcD Posted July 19, 2004 Share Posted July 19, 2004 D-Man and Tom B. Thanks for the kind words, and the wink too. I don't get insulted either way. The light bulb comment I don't quite get. So I invite D-Man to elaborate. Wink. There are two issues. 1) Is whether there is any reason, from a study of electrical engineering theory, that wire can make any difference. 2) Even if 1) does not show this, can blind tests show a difference. 1) In the electrical engineering, the wire does have different characteristics. These include resistance, inductance, and capacitance. Sellers of wire militate on this. However, we have to look at the entire "loop" including the speaker resistance, inductance and capacitance. The chacateristics of the speaker load are much more than the wire. This is by factors of 100s or 1000s, or more. 2) I've never seen an ABX test where anyone can detect wire by listening tests. There are some pretty outragous reports out there. People claim they can "hear" silver solder versus anything else. And they even claim they can hear the effects of narrow and broad tracks on printed circuit boards in cross overs. This came out of the review of an Impulse brand horn system. It is self deception which should not be accepted as factual. Again, if there was any theoretical basis for the claims, or an ABX test, I'd be at the front of the line to buy. But there are not. Smile, Gil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich0372 Posted July 20, 2004 Share Posted July 20, 2004 Tberran what questions did I ask that made you come to these conclutions?? I don't have a right to my own opinion?? isn't that what a forum is for?? I did not insult anybody but you DID but thats okay I didn't know everyone was so protective of this wire issue I was just saying that it made a difference for me under my condition with my system I just think that people should make up there own mind on this issue try different wire and you be the judge Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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