Klipschfoot Posted October 23, 2004 Share Posted October 23, 2004 and was able to justify the cost? I don't see where PWK, JBL or Altec were interested in fancy wire names or types. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryC Posted October 23, 2004 Share Posted October 23, 2004 I seem to recall Monster Cable as one of the early players in that game, though justification is a different issue. P.S. Wanna borrow a pair of Siltechs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwm Posted October 23, 2004 Share Posted October 23, 2004 Somebody with an innate ability to play on the "audio neurosis".. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenratboy Posted October 23, 2004 Share Posted October 23, 2004 Someone who is, this weekend, enjoying a nice golf game in Palm Springs - as in, someone who likes to make a lot of money Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted October 23, 2004 Share Posted October 23, 2004 "Who invented "high end interconnects?" Thieves Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicholtl Posted October 23, 2004 Share Posted October 23, 2004 ---------------- On 10/23/2004 4:36:19 PM kenratboy wrote: Someone who is, this weekend, enjoying a nice golf game in Palm Springs - as in, someone who likes to make a lot of money ---------------- I'm in Palm Springs right now. Maybe I should go out to the golf course and ask the guy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WMcD Posted October 23, 2004 Share Posted October 23, 2004 Of course the super wire and super connectors are mostly nonesense. There is a long history of highly educated, and practical, people moving electricity around on wires. People like Western Electric (Bell Labs), Belden (wire), Alpehol (connectors). Also the Ham Radio people and the Department of Defense. These folks have to deal with hard data, and results. The "HI FI" wire and connector people traffic in the, assumed, claim that there is some purported shortcoming in ordinary wire and ordinary connectors. Then they go on to "solve" a problem which doesn't exist in the first place. But they look pretty. I've not seen any reason to believe the claims of problems, or solutions are accurate. There is a problem in our good buddy's reports. Someone will buy expensive stuff and report an amazing increase in clarity, sound stage, etc. I believe it is self delusion. But it is hard to call these good people deluded -- it would be insulting. And they can make a good argument that we are not there to listen. The point is that amateur, commercial, and engineering establishments, who have to get real results, don't follow the hype thrown up by the super wire and connector theory manufactureres. End of rant. Gil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicholtl Posted October 23, 2004 Share Posted October 23, 2004 While I agree, the devil's advocate argument I always use is if you owned $100K speakers, would you REALLY hook it up with 12AWG lamp cord? It just carries electricity, right? If you owned a Ferrari Enzo, would you REALLY go to Jiffy Lube? It's just an oil change, right? If you were sporting a Georgio Armani powersuit, would you REALLY wear a Fossil watch? It still tells time, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WMcD Posted October 23, 2004 Share Posted October 23, 2004 I will stick with technology over fashion. If you buy expensive speakers, you'd be well served to see what is inside. It may well be the equivalant of lamp wire. This is despite the price tag. If you buy a Ferrari, the lubrication is whatever Shell, BP, etc. is selling. There may well be some high end stuff. But you'll find it in the speed shop. Watches, I don't know what to say. I wear an Omega Mars Watch and cheap suits. I'll grant you that Timex stuff works as well. Smile. Gil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay481985 Posted October 23, 2004 Share Posted October 23, 2004 hmmm being a car fan, the ferrari use a special specific made synthetic oil from shell. It is a 20w-50 or some rediculously high number, Also the price is about 30 dollars a quart. And ferrari's usually eat 6-8 quarts of this stuff. But motoroil is essential to the engine and different motoroils are really noticeable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruinsrme Posted October 23, 2004 Share Posted October 23, 2004 $30 a quart? I thnk you might have this confused with $30 for 5 liters for SHELL HELIX PLUS 20W-50 MINERAL. Cost as of 8/1/2004 was $21.50 for the 5 liter container. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IB Slammin Posted October 23, 2004 Share Posted October 23, 2004 ---------------- On 10/23/2004 5:45:13 PM William F. Gil McDermott wrote: I will stick with technology over fashion. If you buy expensive speakers, you'd be well served to see what is inside. It may well be the equivalant of lamp wire. This is despite the price tag. If you buy a Ferrari, the lubrication is whatever Shell, BP, etc. is selling. There may well be some high end stuff. But you'll find it in the speed shop. Watches, I don't know what to say. I wear an Omega Mars Watch and cheap suits. I'll grant you that Timex stuff works as well. Smile. Gil ---------------- LMAO Gil. You sound like an engineer! Terry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marksdad Posted October 23, 2004 Share Posted October 23, 2004 thieves is correct, i was doing a little dream auditioning today amoung the electronics were; classe, meridian, musical fidelity, the speakers were b&w 800's, and the new sonus farber strtavarious, and attached to both pair were some very imposing synergystic research??? cables the guy thought i was buying, and i said that i would need a pair of the cables 20' long, he said he coud get me a good deal at 5000. some times it is really hard to keep a straight face in the audio boutiques Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garymd Posted October 23, 2004 Share Posted October 23, 2004 I agree and disagree. If you replace the cheapo thin I/Cs that come with your CD player for example with $20 I/Cs, you'll definitely hear a significant difference. Beyond that it becomes a little less clear to most people. I personally feel the siltechs I'm using from my amp to preamp make a difference. Does it make a $600 difference? Probably not to most people. The $20 difference going from cheapos to something decent does make a big difference though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mighty Favog Posted October 24, 2004 Share Posted October 24, 2004 Not that it matters much now but here's the quote from Car and Driver on the Enzo oil from July 2003. "That, and Pentagon-size maintenance bills. On the trip back from the track, Rapp complained that the Enzos special Shell Helix 10W-60 synthetic oil, of which the V-12 requires 12.2 quarts, runs him $60 per quart. If a $732 oil change sounds criminal, consider that the factory wont warrant the engine if you dont use the oil and estimates the replacement bill at $200,000." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WMcD Posted October 24, 2004 Share Posted October 24, 2004 The undergrad degree is engineering. So I better sound like one. Call it applied science. And the other degree is law. Call it polemics. Like it or not, we all live by the science of using machines to measure what better or not. Two doctors. One takes your pulse by a watch. The other says, no, I can do it in my head . . cause watches don't tell everything. Two doctors. One says, we're going to do a blood count with a microscope. The other says, no, I can just look at a smeer . . . cause microscopes don't tell everything. Two doctors. On says, we're going to take some X-Rays to see whether the bone is broken or the tumor is there. The other says, no, I'm going to meditate on your condition. Two engineers. One says, we're going to check the quality of steel used in this building with a load machine. The other says, no, I can tell good steel just by holding it in my hand. Two engineers. One says, we're going to check the circuit breaker by measuring when it trips out with an amp meter. The other says, no, I can tell by just looking at things. You can see the relative merits of the approaches and would not accept the second examples at all. Yet we see these in "Audio" and they are considered, in some camps, as just points of debate . . . either of which may or may not be true. Even if you look with some distrust at engineering and science, it is difficult to argue with results. For example, this "philosophy" can put a machine out beyond Pluto, and still have a radio signal communicated. The study of healing, naturally, has had advances for the same reasons, and with the same, often astounding, results. That is possible because of rigorous attention to what works, or does not. Much of it is because we allow the machines to do the testing. Armchair "philosophers" can say "Nope, they're missing something in how digital communication, wire or interconnects work." I can hear solder, wire, connectors, green magic marker, keeping the wire three inches off the floor, digital copies which are exact but lack micro structure. So, thanks for the complement that I'm talking like an engineer. I'm sure it was meant as a complement; and was taken as one. Smile, Gil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougdrake Posted October 24, 2004 Share Posted October 24, 2004 Heh, about the oil...not quite in the same arena, but close, is the cost for the transmission fluid for my wife's car. It runs about $25-30 a liter from the stealer, er I mean, dealer. Fortunately, it's not something you mess with often, but when I rebuilt the valve body in it I had to replace about 14 liters of the stuff. Fortunately, I bought it in bulk from a repair shop which saved me about $10/liter, but still... Must be made in bath-tub size quantities in Europe and shipped over first-class! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djk Posted October 24, 2004 Share Posted October 24, 2004 In the late 70s the market was right for better interconnects. The 'freebees' that came with most equipment were dismal, very light duty, no strain relief, many were not soldered just crimped. Monster came out with a large diameter cable that was flexible, looked nice, had shielded connections (most moulded plastic ones had no metal shell over the connection), had a strain relief, and were gold plated. At $14.95 they were not all that expensive, a cheap moulded one at Radio Shack was $4.95. However, there were problems with them. After six months to a year they started going 'bad'. The solder joint on the center pin failed due to gold/tin migration causing embrittlement and fractured solder joints. Silver solder fixed this problem. The gold plating wasn't thick enough and has microscopic pin holes. Exposed base metal reacted with air and formed polymer chains on the gold, the connection became 'dirty' and intermittent. Both of these problems had been noted and solved by the phone company many years prior, had Monster done any research in advance they would have found this. Despite the cable quality issue, the demand was still there and Monster thrived. Others followed. Today I see many $400 1M interconnects on display at the local audio salon and just have to wonder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jt1stcav Posted October 24, 2004 Share Posted October 24, 2004 ---------------- On 10/23/2004 5:45:13 PM William F. Gil McDermott wrote: I will stick with technology over fashion. If you buy expensive speakers, you'd be well served to see what is inside. It may well be the equivalant of lamp wire. This is despite the price tag. If you buy a Ferrari, the lubrication is whatever Shell, BP, etc. is selling. There may well be some high end stuff. But you'll find it in the speed shop. Watches, I don't know what to say. I wear an Omega Mars Watch and cheap suits. I'll grant you that Timex stuff works as well. Smile. Gil ---------------- Look at the original wiring in my stock '79 Cornwalls as opposed to the MonsterCable wiring used in today's Klipschorns, or the 14 AWG lampcord my dad used with the Cornwalls as opposed to the latest 9 AWG Kimber Kable 8TC I'm now using with them. Is there a difference? Frankly to my ears, I'd say hardly (but that's me). Maybe there is a sonic difference, but IMO owning expensive interconnects and speaker cable is nothing more than a status symbol and really boils down to bragging rights..."Look what I own"! I really don't hear much difference between my Cardas QuadLink 5-C interconnects and the el-cheapo RadioShack gold plated patchcords the Cardas replaced. To my less-than-stellar ears, I just don't hear any major differences, but that doesn't mean there aren't any. Regardless, the QuadLinks look a helluva lot better than the RadioShack patchcords, so that must mean something. Kinda like my Omega Seamaster...my cheap Timex Indiglo Ironman watch tells time more acurately as long as its got a strong battery. But my Omega looks a whole lot better and keeps on tickin' as long as I flick my wrist. And who ever brags about a Timex? Que sera, sera... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted October 24, 2004 Share Posted October 24, 2004 ---------------- On 10/23/2004 4:07:25 PM cwm wrote: Somebody with an innate ability to play on the "audio neurosis".. ---------------- LOL spot on,I was about to say a very slick businessman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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