I have Failed! BOSE wins again.

[colterphoto1]

ya con't convince everyone. SOme people are just clueless (apologies to our own Clu)

A good friend of mine did the same thing. We were both brought up on Altecs, he just upgraded his whole condo sound system. It's all integrated, with 54" plasma tv and all the bells and whistles, it was just very important for him to not see the sound source. But I can hear the sources, tinny little boxes over here.... big boomy box over there.... no single point with actual music coming out of it . Just be sad and pray for them....

Michael

[TBrennan]

Fish---In a world in which people think AR-3as sound good anything is possible.

And I'll remind you that this hobby is all about preference; there's no perfect speaker or even agreement on what a perfect speaker should do and be. So one man's opinion is as good as another's. It's every man for himself and God against all.

I don't think I ever said RFs weren't good speakers, just not very good HORN speakers. C'mon man, compared to "real" Klipsches and KLFs the things are seriously lacking; basically they're direct-radiators with horn tweeters, not real big-hog horns. Even Heresys take the horn down to 700hz and horn-load most of the midrange, an area called in RFs the mudrange.

[Fish]

TB,while I don't agree (for the most part)with your summation of 7's you certainly have the right to YOUR opinion.On the other hand,I think there is a general concensus that bose blows when it comes to DBs,full range and fidelity,I've owned a few pairs from the 70's to today.

I was just a little surprised that you defended the very inferior(my term)bose.

[TBrennan]

Fish---Well it's more that I'm defending the notion that audio, and especially speakers, is a pretty subjective thing. It's like trying to tell someone whose laughing at The Three Stooges that the Stooges aren't funny. Well obviously they are to the laugher or the person wouldn't be laughing.

I'm also known to defend Braxton Bragg on Civil War forums.

[garymd]

Seriously though, some people REALLY can't tell the difference! I've seen this. They think my khorns sound good but also like the sound of their clock radio. Not everyone is nuts like we are.

If he likes it, great. He probably knows it's inferior to yours but forgets what yours sounds like as soon as he gets home. The thing I don't understand is how people can spend SO much money on bose and still be happy with it. I've heard these $3k+ lifestyle systems and they suck compared to an all heritage HT. No doubt. Be friendly when you shake your head and ask politely "WHAT THE HELL HE WERE YOU THINKING!!!!!!!

[Audio Flynn]

Seadog;

Sory about that.

I also think some married guys are just wimps and will not step up and say we are goning to have good music in the home.

Better Homes and Gardens, Martha Stewart and the rest can take a hike!

[Griffinator]

As far as buying Blo$e is concerned, in the immortal words of Forrest Gump:

"...stupid is as stupid does."

[NOSValves]

Seadog,

Be polite and refrain from any major critique of his new Blose system. Let him settle in with it for a few weeks then invite him over to give your system a listen with something he rescently listened to on his system. If he still likes his blose then give up it's not worth the trouble.

Craig

[Marvel]

----------------

On 1/9/2005 12:30:58 AM TBrennan wrote:

I'm also known to defend Braxton Bragg on Civil War forums.

----------------

That's a good one Tom.

If you PM me with your address I'll see if I can get you a copy of the book my friend did on Fort McAllister.

Marvel

[lovedrummin]

I work part-time in the electonics (ahem!) dept. at our local Wal-Mart (let's keep the laughter down to a dull roar - it's a mile from my house & I'm trying to keep retirement life simple). Anyway as a customer was looking over the newer DVDs he mentioned that he was looking at getting a surround speaker system - Bose. I did my good deed and strongly suggested that he listen to some other systems, noting he could find better for the same price or less. I even suggested he go to BestBuy and check out their Klipsch line as well as any other systems before he puts his money on a Bose system. I have a hunch this fell on deaf (no pun intended) ears. But, hey! I tried!

[dodger]

Bose does not win again, nor should you feel bad.

He has what either he, or his wife, like.

You did your best and should be commended for that. As one above Posted you'll still have YOUR favourite system.

He will have what he decided upon.

I see 2 positives and one no comment on someone else's system.

The 2 positives are in your coulmn.

dodger

[Seadog]

My neighbor had me over today to listen to his new BOSE 3-2-1 system. This system has two tiny (5" x 2 1/2") speakers, a subwoofer module, and an integrated AM/FM/CD/DVD player. It has the low observability factor, but for $1300 (direct purchase from BOSE on-line), it is leaves a lot to be desired IMO. At least my neighbor didn't go for the $4k BOSE system.

He played the BOSE demo DVD which has clips from several movies. The thing that I noticed most was the lack of clarity of the dialog from the phantom center, and the brashness of the sound in general. It does some interesting signal processing to fake the listener into thinking its a surround system, but the effect is mostly a widening of the front soundstage. For some reason, even at moderate sound levels, I felt uncomfortable listening (I would have to play my HT much, much louder to get that feeling). I think I would be fatigued after watching an entire movie.

If only used for movies, perhaps the system wouldn't be so bad, but for music reproduction, I prefer my garage system that I got for $12.50 at the thrift store (two Sansui SP50 speakers and an old Scott SS receiver). Maybe its the tricked up signal processing, but forget imaging (unless the fake wide effect is your pleasure). It would be interesting to hear those little speakers with good amplification.

It's funny that the owners manual "specifications" section gives only the size and weight of the components. No wpc, no distortion specs or the usual info that one would expect. I knew that BOSE didn't publish frequency response data for the speakers, but why no amplification specs?

I followed the advice on this thread and tried not to show negativity towards this guy's new toys. He and his wife love the fact that they don't have any floor standing speakers, or rear speakers, or wires going to rear speakers. I did offer to help him run wires through the walls if he wanted to go with another system with a center and rear speakers (I thought if he was interested it would give me the opportunity to suggest something like the Klipsch Cinema 6). He didn't seem too interested, so I didn't press the issue.

He is quite happy with his system, but he really wanted my opinion/validation. I told him that my frame of reference was somewhat different than his, and that my opinion of good sound reproduction is more consistent with Paul Klipsch's designs than with Amar Bose's designs (good side step I think ), but considering the size of those little speakers it has a great big sound. He seemed satisfied with that.

Just before I left, I invited him to my house next weekend to hear the Khorns I got last month.

[JSJ]

Why would you talk poorly about anyone because of the make of stereo equipment he likes? I thought stereo was about music. What difference does it make?

[Seadog]

I have not spoken poorly of anyone, except perhaps of myself here for doing a poor job of helping a guy get the most value for his money.

[michael hurd]

Seadog, what would happen if you put that bose demo cd in on your system, and actually turned the volume up? I think that your neighbour would have to change his shorts!

[Cal Blacksmith]

You did good! It is hard to hold your tung and stay "diplomatic" when you don't like what you are seeing and hearing. It looks like the WAF was more important than good sound. That demo disc from Bo$e is doctored to make THEIR system sound good. It might sound like %$#$% on your system!

My personal take on speakers is that to get good sound, you need to move the air. You can move a lot more air with large speakers than small ones. So what is effortless for say your Khorns, is a huge mountian for something like the cubes he has.

[dodger]

----------------

On 1/10/2005 12:53:59 AM Seadog wrote:

I have not spoken poorly of anyone, except perhaps of myself here for doing a poor job of helping a guy get the most value for his money.

----------------

Seadog:

As I noted on page 1 of this thread, you let him listen, you talked to him

You can't be down on yourself because of HIS, or his wife's, CHOICE.

It was his money, his decision and his bringing the speakers home.

We can try, that's all we can do. People will have their reasons for their purchases.

You did the best that you could and you at least knew enough to state your preference for PWK in his thoughts. You CANNOT do any more unless you buy the system for him.

dodger

[Tom Adams]

Personally Seadog, I think you did the absolute right thing both for yourself and for your neighbor. Your attitude and comments resulted in a win-win for both. Nice job.

I too am not a big fan of the Bose sound, but hey - that' just me. OTOH, except for the price, if all one was looking for was background listening elevator music and equipment that blends in, Bose fills that niche quite nicely.

I've taken some time the last day or so to digest Tom Brennan's comments here. And while I feel some may find them a bit abrupt, I think what Tom is trying to do is get us back to center. I believe myself to be as big a fan of PWK and Klipsch's products as the next guy. However, I'm not so jaded as to believe that Klipsch is the end-all, be-all. Many of us here have gone through not only changes in the music we like to listen to, but our hearing as well. Is it really so bad to admit that after years of your love affair with Klipsch that you suddenly find the sound from XYZ speakers more appealing? Are you holding onto your Klipsch or XYZ's out of loyalty versus them sounding better? Is your loyalty clouding your ability to be honest and objective? Do you own a speaker because it's "cool" or it provides some degree of acceptance you aren't getting elsewhere in your life or jumping on a bashing bandwagon for the same reasons?

I'll openly admit that while I dearly love my Cornwall/Heresy HT setup, I like the sound of the RF7's a lot. I also find the sound from B&W's 803 to be a very nice sound and something I could definitely live with. I've also had a fondness of the sound from Maggies. Would I include Bose in this? No...however, this is just my tastes. I also happen to love all types of motorcycles. Some folks bash Harleys, I don't. Would I own one? Maybe. Do I think they're "all that". Nope. But what motorcycle is? Just as what speaker is "all that". I would suggest that anyone who thinks a certain speaker is "it" has just committed themselves to a life-long series of missed opportunities to explore what might be.

Tom

[dodger]

Tom:

As a portion of point in my sig, you have expanded, brought even more points for one to ponder, as did the other Tom.

The understanding of audio REPRODUCTION.

Many instruments, many finishes, many amplifiers, microphones, cables, mixing boards down the line.

And we ask our systems to reproduce each and every portion along with mating to our hearing curve.

Excellent Post.

dodger

[Northshore]

..no highs....no lows...must be Bose