Gilbert Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 In interested in getting a few tubes for my newly aquired mcintosh gear, MR71, MC60 and C22. There is no hurry, it's not like I need them (all of them anyway) right now. But I plan to buildup a small stockpile for personal use. 1a.) What are the best sources for buying NOS tubes? and 1b.) Should I give serious consideration to the more recently manufactured tubes? (which manufacturer(s)) For immediate purchase, i.e. within the next week or so, I would like to obtain a variety of matched quad output tubes for my amps. From what I've read here on the forum, the amp's output tubes seem to be the ones that you guys play with the most. My amps run KT88's/6550 output tubes. Now I know this could get costly, but once I find what I'm looking for, I'll sell off most of the others. So my question is....... 2.) Which output tubes sound the best? I think this could be a potentially loaded question, but I assure you it is not. I am too ignorant about tube gear to be able to do that. Please, I want to know what tubes you guys like the most. I want opinions, all of them. My MC60's came with a Russian made matched quad. At least I was told they were matched. The seller did come across as being genuine and sincere. He's a good blok, as my new zealand friend Nevel says. Final questions...., now that you know what tube gear I have (MR71, C22 and MC60), 3a.) What other tubes should I consider purchasing, or to put it another way, 3b.) Which tubes have the most profound affect on the musicality of the individual componet, i.e. which tube(s) for the Tuner & Preamp & Amp are the most fun to play with? I need to hear from everybody, especially you old tube head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 I think you can also look at KT90, KT99, KT100s. Try The Tube Store and the Tube Depot. I bought TESTED tubes off eBay with no problem ask for the test too, or get your own. Sovtek is supposedly a good buy but I dont know those tubes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 Tube sources from mobile homeless: Posted this before but here it is again. Included are several good links for NOS and new tubes (Sonic Frontiers Parts Connection another one as well): Tube World http://www.tubeworld.com/ One of my favorite places for NOS tubes - they have just about everything there and the page lists it ALL! Much better selection that most of the other online shops. Very trustworthy as well! Ned at Triode Electronics http://store.yahoo.com/triodeel/tubes.html Ned has some of the best prices on new and NOS tubes for most amps. While NOS is the BEST way to go, the price is too much for many to justify. I believe in both camps; nice to know some new options exist without breaking the bank. I think ole Ned still comes in second to Tube World but he has good prices and advice. Upscale Audio http://www.upscaleaudio.com/rare/inventory.htm The better selections of NOS tubes but a bit pricey. Kevin Deal claims he tests all his tubes and matches them to a more exacting standard than anyone. Perhaps, it's true. Regardless, he has some great beauties if you are prepared to PAY $$$. Tube Store http://www.thetubestore.com/ A nice site and clean layout. They have a good selection of newer stock tubes but not the best prices in the world. Still, they are dependable and have the cleanest site. kelly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frzninvt Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 Gilbert, have you powered them up yet and given them a listen? Inquiring minds want to know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Landau Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 Gilbert, Changing most of the tubes in the MR-71 will change its alignment. If the tubes test good and the tuner works well, I'd leave them there as found. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben. Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 My MC-30s don't require matched tubes. I'd imagine that would hold true for the 60s as well. Cheaper to buy unmatched (but tougher to sell if you end up reselling). Changing small tubes in my 30s also had quite an impact on the sound, the specifics of which escape me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dflip Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 As with the MC-30's, you may get very good value changing the small tubes and the rectifier. Some recommendations for improvement are; 12BH7 - RCA blackplate, 1950's 12AU7 - Mullard, this tube really does provide part of the sonic signature of the amp 5U4G - Sylvania Coke bottle style, 1950's 12AX7 - Telefunkens, although I am currently using a pair of 5751 GE triple mica blackplates Not really sure about the power tubes for your particular amp. Also ask questions on http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/ or on http://audiokarma.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=54 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilbert Posted February 21, 2005 Author Share Posted February 21, 2005 From my limited research, I found that for the amp's output tubes, TUNGSOL tubes are the best or most popular output tubes. Specifically the Tungsol black plates. I am confused about the plate issue. What's the difference between BLACK PLATE and GREY PLATE tubes? CB: no I haven't fired them up yet. But will probably do it before the end of the day. For sure tomorrow though, since the C22 will arrive then. I just finished waxing up the chasis of the amps. And, I put 2nd coat of wax on the TUNER before sliding her into a walnut cabinet I purchased. Maaaan that chrome sure does shine. I get a stiffy just looking at the gear. I sure hope everything lives up to my expectations. Dflip: thanks for being so specific. Shows confidence. From what I've learned thus far, mullard's are excellent, but tough to find. But I'm taking notes. Ben: I didn't know that. But my common sense (for what that's worth, considering I know beans about tube gear), tells me it would seem that the better I match both amps, the better the sound quality. But I honestly don't know. Colin and Guy thanks.....I won't change a thing in the Tuner. I didn't know that swapping tubes could change the alignment. Whatever that means. The previous owner told me that DeWick had serviced and aligned the unit about 5 or 6 months prior to his listing it on ebay. I asked for the spec sheet (which someone here told me to do). When he couldn't find it, he insisted that I contact DeWick and verify, but I didn't. I trusted him. He seemed like a nice old man when I spoke with him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilbert Posted February 21, 2005 Author Share Posted February 21, 2005 Dflip, you da man! Thank you for the link, I joined. I also spoke with 3 people over the phone today, and all backed up everything you stated, except the rectifier tube swap. Seems everyone has a different opinion on the rectifier tubes. But all mention that the rectifier tube swap didn't have a significant affect on sound. Anyway, I found some MULLARD's 12AU7's, NOS. Never used. They are the real deal, some guy from Floriday aquired them in the UK. Just got of the phone with him as a matter of fact. This same guy said he could hunt down some NOS TungSol 6550's, but that they didn't go cheap, especially a matched quad. He wouldn't give me a price though, said I'd have to wait until he got them in stock. But anyway, he mentioned that I could get a matched quad of some Russian made (current production) copies, that were manufactured with the Tungsol machine. Said they were just as good, and a lot cheaper. What do you guys think? I am so excited -- Phyc'd -- YEA!!! Anyway, thanks again for the audiokarma forum. Lot's great info. there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kev313 Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 tubedepot and brent jesse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben. Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 Gilbert, I hate to state it too firmly, as I have a nasty habit of being wrong when I do, but check to make sure matched quads will bring any improvement. My understanding is that in that circuit none of the output tubes need to be matched. You will pay a long, long buck for matched quads of premium 6550/KT88. I've heard what unmatched power tubes sound like in a circuit that prefers (requires) them, and trust me, I'm getting none of that racket with the unmatched 350B in my 30s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Songer Posted February 22, 2005 Share Posted February 22, 2005 You do not need matched pairs of output tubes. The first thing I would do is SELL the MC-60's and buy a pair of MC-30's! I doub't THAT'S gonna happen, so if you MUST keep those MC-60's there is only ONE output tube that you should consider--the GEC KT-88, sold here in the USA as the Genelex "Gold Lion" or "Gold Monarch." Forget about buying them new unless you're up for laying out about $1400 to $2000or more for a NOS quad. You can buy them one at a time on ebay for about $150-$200 ea used and testing "good." Second choice would be vintage Tung-Sol 6550, but they sound like crap when compared with the GEC tubes. I wouldn't even consider any Chinese or Yugo tubes in thiese amps, but that's ME. You might want to experiment. One nice thing to note, output tubes tend to last for a long, LONG time in McIntosh amps--tens of thousands of hours is not unheard of. In other words, get out your wallet, but only once! As far as tubes for the C-22, I have been using Mullard box-plate CV-4004 for the past 8 years or so. They are to my taste with that wondrous Mullard mid-range and they might well last forever in a C-22. They are available brand new for about $50-$60 ea on average. Don't even THINK about changing the tubes in the MR-71. If the tuner hasn't been gone through you should just box it up and send it to an expert. Mike Zuccaro in San Diego is the best tuner guy I know--and he doesn't charge an arm and a leg either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cal Blacksmith Posted February 22, 2005 Share Posted February 22, 2005 Well, I would hate to say my tubes sound like crap but I have vintage Tung-Sols in my amp and they sound pretty good to me. I have a spare quad that I have picked up and would be willing to "loan" you to see if you like them. They cost about $50 per each and tested good when bought. I just picked the 4 that my amp liked the best and the second quad are spares. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frzninvt Posted February 22, 2005 Share Posted February 22, 2005 Baby steps here folks, Step 1: Set up Mac components and connect Step 2: Plug in Step 3: Listen Step 4: Listen some more Step 5: Use information in this thread to purchase some tubes and try some tube rolling to see if any performance gains are noted. Gilbert needs to get past the first four steps before investing money in tubes that he may or may not even need. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cal Blacksmith Posted February 22, 2005 Share Posted February 22, 2005 I agree he needs to hear what he has. It was an offer of a LOAN of a quad of Tung-Sols, no cost other than shipping involved, cept of course iffin one gets broken or he decided he just HAS to keep them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted February 22, 2005 Share Posted February 22, 2005 ---------------- On 2/22/2005 9:20:29 AM Frzninvt wrote: Baby steps here folks, Step 1: Set up Mac components and connect Step 2: Plug in Step 3: Listen Step 4: Listen some more Step 5: Use information in this thread to purchase some tubes and try some tube rolling to see if any performance gains are noted. Gilbert needs to get past the first four steps before investing money in tubes that he may or may not even need. ---------------- Very wise advise. Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Songer Posted February 22, 2005 Share Posted February 22, 2005 ---------------- On 2/22/2005 9:13:11 AM Cal Blacksmith wrote: Well, I would hate to say my tubes sound like crap but I have vintage Tung-Sols in my amp and they sound pretty good to me. I have a spare quad that I have picked up and would be willing to "loan" you to see if you like them. They cost about $50 per each and tested good when bought. I just picked the 4 that my amp liked the best and the second quad are spares. ---------------- No offense. I just don't like the sound of KT-88/6550 based amps. At least not YET--that is, I've never heard one I liked all that much. I owned some MC-60s about 25 years ago and found that they sounded best with the KT-88, but I still didn't like the amps nearly as well as many other amps I had heard up to that point. Some day I might well hear and amp with 6550s that changes my mind---who knows? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cal Blacksmith Posted February 22, 2005 Share Posted February 22, 2005 No offense. .................... ...............Some day I might well hear and amp with 6550s that changes my mind---who knows? None taken Allan, that is why there are so many different amps out there. If everyone liked the same thing, wouldn't life be a bit booooorrrrrriiiiiinnnnnggggg? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilbert Posted February 22, 2005 Author Share Posted February 22, 2005 ---------------- On 2/22/2005 9:20:29 AM Frzninvt wrote: Baby steps here folks, Step 1: Set up Mac components and connect Step 2: Plug in Step 3: Listen Step 4: Listen some more Step 5: Use information in this thread to purchase some tubes and try some tube rolling to see if any performance gains are noted. Gilbert needs to get past the first four steps before investing money in tubes that he may or may not even need. ---------------- STEP 1 ------Checkamundo STEP 2-------Checkamundo......All preamp settings configured for FLAT RESPONSE, recheck wiring. STEP 3-------Whooa RODGER THAT with a big 10-4. She started off nice and easy, but as the amps kicked in....OMFG. It's wonderful, I love it. The 89 OO Cornwall II's are singing. STEP 4------Listening; MAJOR BASS, AWSOME MID RANGE and EXCELLENT HIGHS. Just sounds wonderful all the way around. This is honestly better than I expected. Much better. Tubes are were it's at, no doubt. Wife bathing the kids, after 5 min. of listening to Rod Stewart and The Boss, it's time to crank it up some more. I'm at about 10 to 15% max. volume now on the Preamp, OMFG, the house is rocking, and I mean rocking solid. There's no end to the clarity, full rich and hearty music. Woe, I feel the DJ's voice deep in my chest, man oh man, there goes the cat. Oh boy, another Boss tune, it's 2 of tuesday..... STEP 4b....nagging wife, CRAP! End of solo party, DAMN! Will listen more tomorrow. Sniff, sniff, sigh. Wife rained on my party. Oh well, I'LL BE BAUK! What took me so long to get here. I AM DEFINITELY ON THE DARK SIDE NOW BOY's. I love it, there's no going back for me, ever. SS sucks, by comparison. Oh, my krell heard that, I'm sorry. Krell is good for the HTS. But for music...TUBES! I knew less than 1 min. into Rod Stewart's "Do Ya Think I'm Sexy", it never sounded that good to me before. STEP 5......extensive research underway. Thanks Craig, Alan, Guy, Colin, Cal (I'll take you up on those tubes, where ya at in Caly), and everyone else who contributed. Alan, I may go for those tubes, but I'm a long way from doing that right now. Going for the TUNG-SOL's first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cal Blacksmith Posted February 22, 2005 Share Posted February 22, 2005 Glad to help. I am in So. Cal. about 80 miles east of L.A. in the sleepy little (ya right!) town of Riverside. P.M. me with your address and I will get them out to you, hey the price is right Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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