Assorted Tube Questions -- PLEASE HELP

[mike stehr]

What the hell is this Dark Side?

[dbflash]

Frzninvt said:

Step 1: Set up Mac components and connect

Step 2: Plug in

Step 3: Listen

Step 4: Listen some more

Step 5: Use information in this thread to purchase some tubes and try some tube rolling to see if any performance gains are noted.

Great advice.

The above can be said for speaker wire, speakers, IC, CD player, etc.

You have to listen to find out what you do or do not like. You also have to listen to your system for more than an hour.

The money I could have saved over the years if I just did the above.

Frzninvt you are a genius.

Danny

[Gilbert]

Danny.....you were doomed from the begining, there's no way you could have saved that spent money. At best, you could have only minimized the damage. -READ ON-

Well, I listened for almost 5 hours today, and I'm not done yet (today that is). Yes, I left work early to get home and listen, while taking care of uncle SAM's paper work for 2004. Every now and then I'd take a break and visit a tube site to look up retail prices and what not. But now, it seems "Dora the Explorer" has taken presidence over her daddy's listening enjoyment. So here I am.

While I was taking care of the paper work, I realized that tube systems are comparable to boats. I say this because a long time ago, a good friend mind's father once told me,... "that a boat is nothing more than a hole in the water that you throw money into".....and he was right.

Well, to me, it sure looks like some ignorant new tube system owner (like say, mua), could go out and literally drop several house payments on tubes while trying to get the sound he ultimately wants. That being the said, this was the whole reason for my posting this thread.

EDITED (I guess I should proof read, Sorry Dflip)

So my dear geniuses, it would seem to me that dumping $$$, no more than that...$$$$$$$$, is the inevitable outcome to finding what's best for you (me actually). Dflip provided solid info right from the start , his info was substanciated by several others (not necessarily from this forum)....Alan and Dodger scare the crap out me , while Craig knows I have trouble with MONO amps , and ole CAL is in Riverside just trying to help a brother out , thank you (I'll PM you in a sec).

But my dear, beloved 2-channel tube klipschite's, tube geniuses of the forum, if I am to minimize the inevitable, I would very much appreciate it if you guys/gals could tell me what tubes....

bring out or supress Bass

bring out or supress the Mid-Range

bring out or round off the corners of the Highs

Is this even a sane question?

I will be giving a listen to (you hear that CB) my system for the next few weeks before actually dumping any more coinage into the system. The 2 Mullard 12AU7's, are already in the mail, and met with the approval of several tube savy forum members. I'm currently in the hunt for pricing on Telefunken 12AX7's, I'll need 10 of them ($$$$$$$$$$), . which reminds me, can anyone tell me what the heck a telefunken means or is? What's is it about telefunkens that makes them the so darn popular? I initially thought telefunken was a brand of tubes, but after much research...I found many manufacturers of telefunken tubes, both current production and NOS. Which just blows my mind!

Anyway, if you'd help to eliminate the red ink, I'd appreciate it.

Sincerely

Scared and confused.

[mike stehr]

"I found many manufacturers of telefunken tubes, both current production and NOS."

Current production Telefunken 12AX7? Where are those at?

[Guy Landau]

Gilbert,

All Telefunken tubes are vintage. They don't manufacture tubes anymore.

For 12AX7's there are 3 types:

1. Smooth plate - the tube plate are smooth. This one is the midrange king. I think that the bass is a little light in these.

2. Ribbed plate - these have a more conventional construction with ribs in the plates. Personally, I find these to have more balanced presentation and it sounds more even, to my ears. The mid is not that seductive but this one sounds more right (to me) and is usually cheaper/

3. ECC803S - this is the king of 12AX7's with different construction (frame grid - looks like a 6DJ8). I never heard one and they usually sell for $350-500 EACH.

My advise is - Don't use the same type of tube in all of your equipment. Best results are obtained by mixing and matching few types (manufacturers).

Another type of tube to consider is the Mullard CV-4004. This one have a very powerful and dynamic presentation but sometimes can sound shrill.

EDIT.

ALL REAL (small preamp tubes not output tubes) TELEFUNKENS HAVE A DIAMOND <> MARK ETCHED ON THE GLASS BETWEEN THE TUBE PINS - BEWARE OF FAKES.

[Dflip]

The rectifier recommendation originally came from Allan. I had a pair of RCA 5U4GB's in the amp and I liked the Sylvania blackplate 5U4G's better. Not a big change, but still an improvement. The good thing, last summer they weren't that expensive on eBay, something like $20 each, so nothing that would break the bank. Now a quad of 350B's for my MC-30, well that is a different story and I have to thank Ben for those. The inexpensive changes aren't a big deal, Telefunkens should be had for less than $200 for a quad, less if they are NIB.

Give it a good listen and then try something, listen to it again, and then make another change. You will eventually find what works for both you and your listening room. Enjoy.

Don

[ben.]

There was no way I was going to sit through an entire hour of Dora the Explorer today. "backpack, backpack" my as.... nevermind.

I switched over to Blue's Clues for about 15 min. then we both went down for some good old night-night time.

Regardless, I think the highlights of the day were before lunch; "The Elephant Child", narrated by Jack Nicholson w/ music by Bobby McFerrin (thanks again Gary), and Taj Mahal's "De Old Folks at Home".

My, how life does change.

[ben.]

Corssed posts, Don. I'm still gratified that you like the 350B! Still sorry I was running late that day. It would've been nice to chat.

[Deang]

For the price of a matched quad of GEC's you can upgrade to a better amp. Watch yourself with NOS output tubes -- you'll go broke and insane. I personally don't think the differences are as dramatic as some make them out to be. You'll actually hear bigger differences rolling the input and driver tubes.

[fini]

...and the crossovers...

[ben.]

Dean, how'd you get fini's password?

[ben.]

I do agree, though, Dean. I think that changes early in the gain structure can generally have more impact when rolling tubes of similar type. When going to tubes of entirely different construction, though, I think this may not hold true, regardless of tube function.

[fini]

How important, then, is the rectifier? Boy, you can dump some serious dough into NOS 5AR4s. I may end up trying them Ruskie rectifiers in my MK IVs.

[Cal Blacksmith]

Gilbert, just to realy throw gas on the fire, here is a link to ONE reviewers opinions on some tubes that you might be interested in. Remember, the KT88 and the 6550 are basicly the same tube. The KT88 is supposed to be the "higher quality" tube.

http://www.audioasylum.com/scripts/t.pl?f=otl&m=521

Enjoy and try to not go off the deep end

Edit:

Outstanding information mdeneen WELL worth remembering when "looking around"

[Gilbert]

Thanks Mark, that was outstanding.

As far as the 12AX7's go, I've heard/read from several mac and numerous other amp type owners that the Telefunken's are an excellent tube, as are the Mullards. I've not heard anything bad about either of these.

I'll give Cal's Tung-Sol's a try, and obtain maybe a 2 other Quad types. The reviews by those GEC KT88's are very inviting, but the price makes me tremble. I'm not at that level yet, but with time, and maybe a bank robbery, I may buy a set in the future. I don't doubt your Alan, not at all, but I can't afford to dump that on tubes just yet.

In a few months, I'll get Craigs VRD's, and send the MC60's to him for a check-up and overhaul. As for my C22, I'm not impressed with DeWick. He supposedly serviced the unit in Aug. 2004, and although it is cosmetically in very good condition, sonically it has a few bugs that need fixing. From what I hear, there's a place in NY that is the king of mac repair's. So, once I get Marks Blueberry, off to NY she goes.

Anyway, thanks guys for the tube information. I'm really good and confused now, but will research wisely, and in time, enjoy some good tube rolling. Fun, fun, fun.

Kindest of regards to all.

[Allan Songer]

What are the "sonic bugs" you are hearing with your C-22? I have reccomended DeWick in the past and have heard nothing but good things about his work, so I'm a bit surprised. He went through an MX-110 for a good friend of mine and did a really fine job on both the preamp and tuner sections about 3-4 years ago and the unit has performed flawlessly since.

[Frzninvt]

The place in NY he is referring to is Audio Classics, while good, they are borderline insane on some of their pricing. There are occassional deals but they are few and far between.

Gear of that vintage is always going to be a little quircky I would think.

[NOSValves]

I believe the problems are just the front lights are out and a HF switch is not working correctly. Most likely just problems from shipping. Terry is known fair and wide for quality work it would surprise me if it could be traced back to the work he performed.

Craig

[dbflash]

Gilbert,

I am in the same boat as you are, except I watch Dora because of choice.

Both my CD player and Preamp use 6922 tubes. I bought 5 1960 Telefunken E88CC Diamond Bottom Gold Pin tubes.

I replaced the original tubes Mark sent with the Peach 1 day after I recieved it. I have no idea if the tubes he sent are good or not. I just liked the improvement the Telefunken made in my CD player. Oh yea I bought the Telefunkens before my CD player ever arrived at my house. I listened to the original tubes for 2 hours and rolled the new tubes in.

I now am going to replace my tubes in my VRD's. From what I have been told the driver and the output tubes are the ones to play with. I will let you know what 12AU7,12AX7 and KT88's I end up with.

I was sailing one day and a friend told me his father told him "If it flies, floats, or #uc%s rent it. I think the same can be said about audio.

Danny

[seti]

Wow mdeneen thanks for the rant very informative. I am pretty much a newbie compared to you guys and I try to scrape this forum for every bit of useful info I can find. : )