Which speaker cable are you using?

[Duke Spinner]

Home Cheapo's best 14g extension cord .....

[nicholtl]

PS Audio's 6AWG Statement cables.

[Tom Mobley]

>>>If this comment was directed at my post, this is the reason I said what I did. I won't buy Monster anything due to the bad business practices of said company. The practice of suing ANYONE who has Monster in their name regardless of the business they are in, for example suing Disney for the use of the name Monster in the movie Monsters INC. for trademark infringement is WAY over the top. I will not support such companies REGARDLESS of the quality or lack of quality in their products.<<<

Perzackly. IMHO, this company is to be avoided at all costs. Practically a poster child for abusive corporate practices, cruddy legal strategies and the like. Corporations like Monster are a drag on free enterprise everywhere. And let's not go into marketing department based physics here.

[seti]

I just picked a brand out of the blue that seemed to be made well and was well shielded. For cable I would never pay alot and I always buy used. For interconnects and speaker cable I may have spent $180.

http://www.the-music-cable.com/speakercab.asp

[thebes]

Well I use a variety of wires, interconnects etc. including Monster (free with some speakers), Parts Express, Rat Shack, AR and generic. Here's a picture of some that a local fellow threw in when I bought his AH! '99 tube cd player. He has a side business making these and a great name for the product: Pipeline!

I'm not very nuanced when it comes to cables and haven't really had a chance to try and a/b with these yet, but they look pretty cool and from what I gather his prices are reasonble. Told me these are not pure silver wire but some sort of silver/copper mix if I remember correctly. Said they run about $50 so if anybody's looking for something like this let me know. He makes a variety of other cables to using different parts, wire etc. I'm pretty sure I have his numbmer around here somewhere.

[thebes]

Here's a pick of some fancy wire Rick, our own 3DZapper was kind enough to send to me. It's Belden Twinax Shielded silver cable along with some silver solder.

Only problem I can see is there are at least three wires, and I thought most stuff only used two. Haven't got around to asking him how to use this yet, but it looks pretty nifty. I think I'll just stick one end into a wall socket and then try to solder something onto the other end. Hey, what could possibly go wrong?

[seti]

Just found this article on the electric internet....

The Truth about Speaker Wire

Despite the effectiveness of Gordon's cable demonstration and the truth about speaker wire, people visiting the McIntosh room at the shows, who had not experienced the cable demonstration, were disturbed that we were using ordinary heavy zip cord instead of one of the popular brands of speaker wire. Instead of listening to the McIntosh speakers and electronics, they recalled "bad" things they had been told about "common" speaker wire and this promoted questions about the "inferior" wire being used. When we changed the wire to a popular brand of wire, customers were happy with the setup, and directed their attention to the McIntosh equipment.

The demand for high quality speaker wire was increasing and appeared to be a new marketing area for several companies. McIntosh did not make or sell speaker wire. The solution seemed very obvious--rather than spend time and effort to create negative sales for McIntosh dealers who were beginning to sell speaker wire, it seemed best to encourage the speaker owner/customer to consult with the dealer about what speaker wire to use. Consequently, I no longer recommended the kind of wire or wire sizes in the speaker manuals.

By 1988, McIntosh no longer supplied audio interconnects with the electronics. Again, many kinds of special audio cables were available to the customer/owner. The dealer could also be consulted about what cables to use.

I credit the success of the speaker wire industry to their expert sales and marketing ability. However, it is my experience that ordinary copper wire, as long as it's heavy enough, is just as good as name brands.

Looking at this from a different perspective, there will always be those who will want expensive wire, not because there is an audible difference, but because they may value pride of ownership and prestige in a similar way to that of owning a Tiffany lamp or a Rolex watch.

[pauln]

What next? Are we going to discuss speaker spikes, isolation nubs, and cable lifters?

The answer is: It does NOT matter because you WILL hear an improvement no matter what you change if you think it might sound better.

I use WIRE. "Speaker Cable" is a phoney word created my Marketing to get your money from you. The gauge, color, insulation, and terminations are irrelevant for audio except that the gauge is high enough that you can bend the wire, the color is agreeable, the insulation is without breach, and the terminations allow metal to metal contact to your amp and to your speakers.

Save your money for tweaks that really work:

Spray your woofers with hairspray before each listening session (does not have to be the expensive kind from the beauty parlor) to get improved bass focus and tightness in the low end.

Improve you midrange imaging by hanging a mirror between your speakers about tweeter height.

[dragonfyr]

----------------On 4/25/2005 1:20:29 PM Cal Blacksmith wrote:

----------------On 4/25/2005 8:14:08 AM dragonfyr wrote:

It sure would be nice to hear more discussions regarding the actual performance of a product and not the reductio ad nauseum overly simplistic reference to a company name.

The overly simplistic stereotypes don't do the companies nor the reviewers justice.

----------------

If this comment was directed at my post, this is the reason I said what I did. I won't buy Monster anything due to the bad business practices of said company. The practice of suing ANYONE who has Monster in their name regardless of the business they are in, for example suing Disney for the use of the name Monster in the movie Monsters INC. for trademark infringement is WAY over the top. I will not support such companies REGARDLESS of the quality or lack of quality in their products.

----------------

My comment was meant generally.

And I find myself in the all too common position of playing devil's advocate. I am not a personal fan of Monster, nor of several other companies. And conversely, I am not one who holds other companies as being 'blameless' and above all scrutiny either, as some seem to do.

But this issue regarding the lawsuits is pretty simple regardless of your emotional position (to which you are certainly entitled! And I am Not trying to debate whether Monster is 'good' or not!). Monster, et. al. does NOT garner "good will" by suing everyone! You know it and They know it! So, have you ever wondered why they do it???

Based upon precedence and the law, they are in an unenviable position of having chosen a rather 'common' name. And the law is very clear that a company has to "aggressively" act to protect the exclusivity of that trademark/copyright in order to maintain it. The fact is, if they do not, then that becomes a basis for others to infringe on their use of it.

Does this make for an 'over the top' situation? Perhaps. Does Monster take some perverse delight in suing grandmothers and church socials and engendering the mountains of "ill will" (and I am referring to "good will" from the business perspective, not simply the common emotional perspective)? I doubt it! But they have chosen to play the game. And, believe it or not, they don't make the rules! So it would simply be nice if we separate those factors over which they have control and 'make the rules', so to speak, and those where they find themselves in the unenviable position of having to play by the rules as well. I suspect that they wish they didn't find themselves caught in that game they can't seem to win as well!

As I said, personally I find their marketing claims a bit spurious. But it is up to each individual to be informed and to make good decisions! And when so many in this country get their hard news from the tabloids (by THEIR choice!), it is rather hard to blame those that simply cater to the demand! And besides, I hear all too often from too many here who seem to think that physics is an esoteric pursuit akin to witchcraft anyway! So it is funny to suddenly hear so many suddenly 'get religion' when the name Monster comes up in discussion...So monster can charge more for their so-called esoteric cables. And if people think they are worth it, great. I don't. But there are companies far guiltier of this then them! But their cables aren't that bad either.

I guess I am just pleading for less 'over the top' hyperbole regarding them and others while others are held above all scrutiny. I don't need to hear about the historical abuses of the church everytime someone mentions something to do with the Pope, nor of the historical abuses of the US government everytime someone mentions the US, or anything else for that matter.

This hourly, daily, weekly, etc., repetition of the flame wars grows old after awhile. Either the messages have been effective or not. But I dare say, that if the message isn't out by now, it has failed!

Wouldn't it be nice if once when someone asked "what do you actually use", we could just see what people actually use! I don't recall anyone saying "Please attack me if I choose to use a particular product", nor have I heard anyone request others to tell them why they should not have the right to use whatever product they choose, regardless of how stupid you, or I, or anyone else may think it is.

And while I love debate - even debate for debate's sake, simply to explore additional aspects of a subject - may I suggest that we try to debate a product on its specific quantifiable merits for a change.

Of course we could start on Klipsch (et. al.), and by virtue of their being an American company, and seeing as how America allowed the abuse of slavery for so many years!...that I guess we could naturally jump to "How dare you buy Klipsch!?" OK...enough already! I get it. I know! I am still free to make a decision without it making me a bad person. And so are you!

I am just making a humble request for lest hystrionics and a little greater focus on the performance of products. And maybe the politics of business, or of whatever else one wishes to debate, can move to the General section for debating to your heart's content....

I fear that this is simply a tar baby, and I have made the mistake of touching it! So I will try my best to stop aggravating it

[Guest Anonymous]

Everyone-

Physics/Chemistry/Psychology

The three principles of wiring.

Best,

George

[Mighty Favog]

12' pair of MITerminator 2 Bi-Wire.

They were on closeout from Audio Advisor for half off.

[mike stehr]

"The lower the guage = the better the sound"

Have you tried welding cable yet?

[dragonfyr]

I was rather considering rebar, if I could just get it to wrap around corners.

And I know where I can get used sections of railroad track. Now, if I could just find gold plated connectors to match.

[michael hurd]

As long as the gauge is adequate for the length required and also the impedance of the loudspeaker, it should perform just fine.

[Guest Anonymous]

Mike-

To address your comment, you are taking it out completely out of context. I said of a pure copper conductor. Meaning that as long as the quality of the copper is the same, guage is held constant there should be no difference in sound assuming no white/pink noise or rf etc.

Have a good one

-George

[doudou]

----------------

On 4/25/2005 5:28:55 PM Gramas701 wrote:

Everyone-

Physics/Chemistry/Psychology

The three principles of wiring.

Best,

George

----------------

hehehe, your totaly right.

unfortunatly people who sells wire use the last one too much and lye on the two first.

[Cal Blacksmith]

Dragonfyr,

Indeed there are topics that flame the passions here. I did in my post, state what I use and how it performs. I am a FIRM believer that quality wire in a large enough gauge for the intended purpose, is all the same regardless of who has stamped a name on it.

There are only a couple of mills that produce wire and everyone uses them then adds their name to the product. It is cost prohibitive to have special runs of wire made to a boutique specification. To make it worthwhile, you need to run MILLIONS of feet of wire to pay for the tooling and setup. That could amount to an up front investment of more than a Million dollars. I know I dont have the money to do that. I could however, buy wire off the shelf, make it into cables and put my own name on it. This is precisely what the wire resellers have done.

To touch on Monster again, for me, the last time in this thread, just who chose that name for the company? Who named the product? The word MONSTER its self already had a meaning that conjured up the mental image that the company wanted you to see. It would be a different matter completely if they had INVENTED a name and others were trying to capitalize on it but they took a word out of the dictionary that was and is public domain and are trying to keep others from using a word that they have a perfect right to use

If Monster were fighting other cable or even electronic component manufactures for infringement, I would agree that they need to actively pursue and defend the name BUT they have not stopped at potential competition, they have carried it WAY beyond all reason. Yes I do hold the company responsible for their actions.

[TheEvan]

While we're on the subject, two more questions: The first one is directly related.

1. One of my speakers uses a 24' run, the other a 44' run. I'm using 12 ga. wire I got from HD I think. Adequate for that length?

2. If I get monoblocks, do I place them with each Khorn or do I keep my longer speaker wire runs?

[dragonfyr]

----------------

On 4/26/2005 8:30:40 AM Cal Blacksmith wrote:

To touch on Monster again, for me, the last time in this thread, just who chose that name for the company? Who named the product? The word MONSTER its self already had a meaning that conjured up the mental image that the company wanted you to see. It would be a different matter completely if they had INVENTED a name and others were trying to capitalize on it but they took a word out of the dictionary that was and is public domain and are trying to keep others from using a word that they have a perfect right to use

If Monster were fighting other cable or even electronic component manufactures for infringement, I would agree that they need to actively pursue and defend the name BUT they have not stopped at potential competition, they have carried it WAY beyond all reason. Yes I do hold the company responsible for their actions.

----------------

Then may I suggest you and others change the copyright /trademark law that CURRENTLY exists!. Monster is stuck dealing with the reality of the legal system as it is - in reality! Whether we like it or not! And they are as much victimized by it as all of the other folks who have freely CHOSEN the same name!!! Funny how we resolve them of all responsibility!

And unfortunately the law does not allow them to simply pick and chose the companies they want to take issue with! According to the copyright law it must be "aggressively defended" against all infringement. It's not my law and its not theirs! So complain about those who framed the law! There are plenty of things that Monster IS responsible for. I suggest we concentrate on them, since we are all so perfect.

But as too many folks are want to judge others by how things SHOULD be, many of the rest of us are stuck dealing in the world 'as it is'! And instead of simply complaining about the inbalances in the world, I hope they fix that shortcoming in their utopian wishful thinking world of how things SHOULD be. Or better yet, start by reforming the entire body of Copyright law! As with the evolution of media and technology, it is woefully out of sync with the considerations of the modern world! Take a look around!

Meanwhile the rest of us are stuck in this world, dealing with things as they are.

[doudou]

----------------

On 4/26/2005 9:54:36 AM TheEvan wrote:

While we're on the subject, two more questions: The first one is directly related.

1. One of my speakers uses a 24' run, the other a 44' run. I'm using 12 ga. wire I got from HD I think. Adequate for that length?

2. If I get monoblocks, do I place them with each Khorn or do I keep my longer speaker wire runs?

----------------

for the 2), i think you should keep your longer speaker wire run.

if you place the amp near the khorn you will amplify all the noise the wire will get in the same way you amplifye the music.

but i don t know if on about 40 feet it will be noticeable.