dragonfyr Posted May 10, 2005 Share Posted May 10, 2005 ---------------- On 5/10/2005 11:35:06 AM Tom Adams wrote: ---------------- On 5/9/2005 8:46:06 PM dragonfyr wrote: ---------------- Finally, FINALLY!! You finally said something that's meaningful! dragon....you're what? About 28 or 29 years old, right? Tom ---------------- Heavens no! I wouldn't want to talk over the heads of so many here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Amy Posted May 10, 2005 Moderators Share Posted May 10, 2005 I'm tellin ya, next time you almost hit a possum in the middle of the road, bring it home and have it live in your back yard! "Opossums are unintelligent creatures (they eat cockroaches by choice -- 'nuff said), but are innocuous and harmless almost to a fault. They carry fewer diseases than the average household pet, and have a greater resistance to rabies than any other wild or domestic animal living around you. They are also immune to the venom of most pit vipers (rattlesnakes, copperheads, cottonmouths, and the like). Scientists are studying the opossum's ability to neutralize venom, as well as its resistance to rabies, in hopes of learning how to enhance the immune system in humans. Meanwhile, opossums go about dining on venomous snakes as if this were the most ordinary of activities. One curious fact about the lowly opossum: It has opposable thumbs on its rear feet, which function like hands for grasping. One of the greatest adaptations in the animal kingdom is opposable thumbs, a feature humans share only with other primates and opossums." from www.snopes.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragonfyr Posted May 10, 2005 Share Posted May 10, 2005 Possums are amazingly resilient animals! Literally, living dinosaurs. And so comical to watch! Despite often appearing as if they can't remember how to walk, they can downright fly (not literally for those of you whom I am sure are sitting there wondering! ) in the right circumstance. They seldom cause an real problems, and serve as nature's trash collectors. And the description from a National Geographic article of years ago that sticks is that the pressure exerted by their jaws is sufficient "to crush an elephant's femur". Now I don't know when they have brought down an elephant, or who exactly determined that , but the image works for me! It would be nice if fewer folks found adventure in hurting or eliminating them and spent a few more minutes learning to appreciate them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royster Posted May 10, 2005 Share Posted May 10, 2005 ---------------- On 5/10/2005 10:53:09 AM dodger wrote: I just read page 4. Royster: I heve seen what you have seen, I'm not ignoring you. There was a quote, can't remember by whom and I'll probably mess part up but here goes: What separates Humans from the rest of the animal world is the humans ability to hold a grudge, let that grudge fester then plan on how he is going to attack, where he is going to attack and what weapon will be used. Also a human can decide that he is going to kill, choose a weapon, choose a stranger and then kill. Some of this non-provoked, all for no food benefit and all using methods beyond hitting, biting but in the very vast majority of cases knowing it is wrong. Also the human can gain joy or gratification out of hurting another human. Author unknown. ---------------- dodger: I did not think so.. I am looking forward to times when a simple patrolman has a chance to meet some of the great minds (a leat in thier own mind). Maybe take a few xtra seconds to ponder the irony as a slobbering growling bag of teeth chews the sh(t out them or a loved one. Some of these self serving know it alls really have it all figured out. Nature normally takes care of sorting out the non productive weak links, guess we will just have to wait and hope. These are the same types that tend to cry the loudest when things go wrong for them. And I belive that one of the posters above must suffer from tube envey, based on his post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dblue Posted May 10, 2005 Share Posted May 10, 2005 ---------------- On 5/9/2005 1:37:40 PM m00n wrote: Amy Amy Amy.... Then I sould be alowed to own a Siberian Tiger. It's just a big kitty after all. The problem is, why do innocent people have to pay the price for others stupidity? I don't feel that an idiot with a pit bull is any more likely to take more precautions with that dog no matter *WHAT* the pentalty is. An idiot is an idiot period! Amy, put your sons image in place of this other poor child that was the latest victim. Are you telling me that after you see your bloody, chewed up son you would feel the same way? CMon... That's B.S. You and I know it. Why wait? Why wait for it to happen and THEN the owner possibly get some form of criminal charge? There is no doubt in my mind that there is something fundimtally wrong with those dogs. I don't care what anyone says. There are laws in the car industry that help protect people, there are laws in the medical industry that protect people, there are laws in just about every facit of life to protect people. By your reasoning, we just do away with those laws as they are limiting our freedoms. Afterall, why shouldn't I be able to drive a poorly designed car that explodes on impact sending my body parts around in a 50 foot radius? ---------------- Moon, this is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard you say. To compare a Tiger (a wild animal) to a Pitbull ( a DOMESTIC animal that was bred by man for hunting) is pretty darn logically unsound. Banning a breed of dogs because of some incidents sensationalized in the news is ridiculous. I've known quite a few pitbulls, and they were some of the smartest, most well trained dogs with a boatload of personality to boot. More aggressive than a poodle? Probably. But no more than a German shepard ( another amazing breed ). I agree that there is a problem with people buying these dogs and training them to be fighers and be mean, but I speak from personal experience when I say that there is nothing 'fundamentally' wrong with these dogs. That is a scientifically unsound statement from any point of view. In fact, looking at dog attack statistics for any year will show you how blown out of proportion this arguement is. The media sure does a good job of getting people riled up beyond belief without any real backing. No offense, Moon, I'm not being belligerent here or anything, but this thread is silly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragonfyr Posted May 10, 2005 Share Posted May 10, 2005 ---------------- On 5/10/2005 12:23:33 PM dblue wrote: ---------------- ... Banning a breed of dogs because of some incidents sensationalized in the news is ridiculous. I've known quite a few pitbulls, and they were some of the smartest, most well trained dogs with a boatload of personality to boot. More aggressive than a poodle? Probably. But no more than a German shepard ( another amazing breed ). I agree that there is a problem with people buying these dogs and training them to be fighers and be mean, but I speak from personal experience when I say that there is nothing 'fundamentally' wrong with these dogs. That is a scientifically unsound statement from any point of view. In fact, looking at dog attack statistics for any year will show you how blown out of proportion this arguement is. The media sure does a good job of getting people riled up beyond belief without any real backing. No offense, Moon, I'm not being belligerent here or anything, but this thread is silly. ---------------- Absolutely! No one to my knowledge is supporting the irresponsible ownership of a dog or anything else for that matter! But the wholesale stereotype of a particular breed of dog is not valid. People own dogs for a variety of reasons, and unfortunately, not all of them are good. And ironically enough, while we tend to focus on people, the biggest victim of this are the dogs themselves! Dodger, dblue, Amy, and many numerous experts in the field, et. al. are right. The problem is not a particular breed of dog. It is the irresponsible ownership that shirks the responsibility that owning a dog entails that is the true source of the problem. I encourage enforcement of the laws. And if reasonable laws that also acknowledge the rights of responsible dog owners and dogs need strengthening, do so! If existing adequate laws need stronger enforcement, do that too! Nothing makes me madder then someone who does not assume the responsibility for a charge they have assumed, be it a dog, a gun, a car, a child, or anything else! And its not sufficient simply to point the finger at dog owners. Of course dog owners MUST be responsible! But it is also the responsibility of parents to teach their children how to function in the world. And that reasonably includes animals. And it is the parents' responsibility to properly supervise their young children. Especially if they are in the proximity of a dog (as reported in the articles listed!). Leaving a small child to play near a dog, especially a dog not of the family, is akin to allowing them to play unsupervised near an open flame or a fireplace or a swimming pool! It just amazes me that so many find it SO simple to point and blame one half of the variables in a problem and are so willing to absolve other parties of their responsibilities! If only the world were so simple as to simplisitcally blame the "theys" and the "thems" of the world. Each person is a part of this, and each person bears responsibility for the choices they make. Its time we hold EVERYONE to be responsible for their choices. And the law should assist in identifying and enforcing negligence in that responsibility. But the carte blanche limitation of freedoms due to the fact that some may violate their responsibility is not the answer. This isn't, or shouldn't be, such a difficult concept. And for the few who can't seem to distinguish between the serious and the playful sarcasm and sense of irony...well ... Nevermind, as it won't help if I have to explain it.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dodger Posted May 10, 2005 Share Posted May 10, 2005 As I know of mOOn's concerns with things, I would agree with enforcement, with my concept. But where mOOn lives there may be a disproportion of in-bred dogs used for fighting. Thus only the strongest, i.e. most aggressive and meanest survive. If there is no leash law, petitions should be taken around to gain one. Note if safe and possible, where you see residents taking PitBulls on runs while they ride a bicycle. If you see one loose, do not hesitate to call 911 for Animal Control. There have been raids on homes for dog fights, the neighbors hear the noise, yet do nothing. Apathy toward a lot of things needs to be changed. If this forum is a way to help achieve some of those goals then start. NOW. Pro-Active. mOOn, if there are many around you that are problems - call the Huane Society. Start the call with " I don't want my name address or phone number given out" then describe the problem. The Humane Society has Sworn, Law Enforcement Officers. To the offender the gun is a give away. If you think there are dog fights, do not put yourself in harm's way, but if you can get license plate numbers. You could event turn that information over to a Crime Stoppers Program if you have one. The floor I was on had a tap for every line but the Crime Stoppers, even the *## would not work. If it is like the floor I was on, you will be anonymous. An answering machine is used - no voice mail as that spits a number at you. When I was younger, my neighborhood had a problem with Dobermans, we got it taken care of. They were used for fighting. I was bit by one. But I'm too stupid to show fear. If there is a local problem that I can help you with, contact me. You know I'll help. But keep the onus on the owner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben. Posted May 10, 2005 Share Posted May 10, 2005 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragonfyr Posted May 10, 2005 Share Posted May 10, 2005 Dodger is right! A bit of curiosity on my part... Have you tried calmly talking to the police or the animal control officers where you live. If you don't come off as too crazed or upset, they will usually be more then glad to help explain the laws and regulations concerning the dogs. And they should tell you how best to go about gaining the help you need. They don't like irresponsible owners of dogs and the risk they present any more then you do! They may even be more upset about it! And you will learn if the existing laws are adequate to deal with the issue. But you have to start somewhere. It seems you already are upset. So now it seems is the proper time to turn that frustration into a practical workable plan of action to remedy the problem. Start by talking to the police. And while I don't know where you live, it might be beneficial to calmly speak with a councilman or other local elected official. This is a topic that they stand to benefit from if they can help fix it, as they can always take credit for community improvement. (But , it just depends on where and with whom you deal!) Also, you didn't mention much detail about the nature of the folks who have the problem dogs. Some owners are simply oblivious, and others are, well, criminals. If the dogs are used for fighting or if they are simply out of control family pets can make a big difference in how you approach the situation. But if the folks that have the dogs are involved with other 'issues', you will definately want to talk to your police department about the situation rather then trying to deal with the situation yourself!! I suspect that if you do this, you may find that there is support. If not, let us know. I also suspect that there are enough folks here with adequate experience and knowledge to devise a reasonable workable strategy to help correct the situation. But of course you will want to take adequate care to protect yourself and anyone else you care about in the meantime. After all, until the owners are held responsible and accountable for their actions, things will not change. Give it a try, and let us know how they respond. And be persistent!!! If you don't get the answers you need the first time, try again and again! If you remain civil and don't alienate them by arguing you have a much better chance of gaining their support! Let us know! <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragonfyr Posted May 10, 2005 Share Posted May 10, 2005 ---------------- On 5/10/2005 1:55:15 PM ben. wrote: "Blame CANADA"---------------- HAHAHAHA! (Sorry!) What, no retailatory strike!?!?!?!?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dodger Posted May 10, 2005 Share Posted May 10, 2005 ---------------- On 5/8/2005 6:17:21 AM colterphoto1 wrote: I agree wholeheartedly on the banishment of this horribly violent breed. But I have another issue with owners of dogs of all types. How can I say this gently, will all dog owners kindly train their animals to 'SHUT the F@ UP!' I paid a small fortune for my home and am entertained nightly by the yapping and howling of various breeds of dogs, sometimes very late into the night. Are owners deaf to the racket of their own pet's barking, which can be heard all the way down the block? If I played Ozzie at the same volume and for the same time over my Industrial LaScalas the police would be here in 5 minutes! Have you ever been accosted by a neighbor who expressed displeasure at your pet's noises? What would be an effective and neighborly way of registering a complaint? I'd really like to do this without alerting the police or becoming a vandal. Michael ---------------- Hi Michael: This is for you and others dealing with barking dogs. In most states there is a provision that one is entitled to the Peaceful, quiet enjoyment of there homes. Civil Law, Small Claimss,bring a couple of neighbors. But first call Animal Control, there is usually a reason and most likely an abuse. At the least call and even if your city handles on a priority basis, it will still be documented. You can then contact the Commanding Officer of your Precinct, Section and request something be done. Disturbing the Peace is one strike. The calls can stay anonymous if you request so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mungkiman Posted May 10, 2005 Share Posted May 10, 2005 I'm pretty sure there is a disproportionate amount of in-breeding where m00n lives, it just doesn't have anything to do with dogs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.4knee Posted May 10, 2005 Share Posted May 10, 2005 Gawd is this thing still raging? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m00n Posted May 10, 2005 Author Share Posted May 10, 2005 ---------------- On 5/10/2005 12:23:33 PM dblue wrote: Moon, this is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard you say. To compare a Tiger (a wild animal) to a Pitbull ( a DOMESTIC animal that was bred by man for hunting) is pretty darn logically unsound. No offense, Moon, I'm not being belligerent here or anything, but this thread is silly. ---------------- No more of a ridiculous comparison than people with guns vs. pit bulls. BTW, non taken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m00n Posted May 10, 2005 Author Share Posted May 10, 2005 ---------------- On 5/10/2005 1:03:29 PM dragonfyr wrote: Absolutely! Dodger, dblue, Amy, and many numerous experts in the field, et. al. are right. The problem is not a particular breed of dog. It is the irresponsible ownership that shirks the responsibility that owning a dog entails that is the true source of the problem. ---------------- You are not seeing the real issue here. The problem is that both are responsible. As hard as you try to create and enforce laws that are stricter, it's not going to change the fact that there are and always will be stupid owners. For that matter, people don't necessarly have to be stupid, how about the fact that there are responsible owners and yet one small slip up and a tragedy happens. It does not matter anyway. You guys will get to keep it your way. More and more people will continue to be brutally attacked, more and more people will be killed by these dogs. I must say however, it would be interesting to hear your new view in the event you were attacked by one of these dogs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m00n Posted May 10, 2005 Author Share Posted May 10, 2005 ---------------- On 5/10/2005 6:54:20 PM mungkiman wrote: I'm pretty sure there is a disproportionate amount of in-breeding where m00n lives, it just doesn't have anything to do with dogs! ---------------- You just lost your invite to come over and help me build new cubbies in my walls for my surrounds Mr. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted May 10, 2005 Share Posted May 10, 2005 ---------------- On 5/10/2005 9:33:35 AM Amy Unger wrote: I've said my peace. If anyone wants to keep arguing the "ban the pitbull" debate, I'll just copy and paste this post down farther ---------------- Remember, a woman has the last word in any argument. Anything a man says after that is the beginning of a new argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dblue Posted May 10, 2005 Share Posted May 10, 2005 Moon, even if I was attacked by one of these dogs, I'd feel the same way. Being attacked would not change my view that the owner is truly at fault. I can say, once again, from experience that there is nothing wrong with this breed if they are treated properly. I will not deny that they are a more agressive breed, but to ban a breed is not only not feasible, it's not possible. It's like trying to ban beer (see how well that worked), or, for that matter, the futile war on drugs where our government spends 30 billion a year and makes absolutely no progress. I do respect your opinion, but I can't disagree with the numbers. Because it makes the news in one area or even nationally more than would be expected, that doesn't make it the dog's fault. How many pitbulls do you think there are in this country in proportion to the attacks? Remember the shark attack craze a few years back? The media decided to focus on shark attacks and people decided to stop going to the beach? You are more likely to be killed by almost anything than a shark, even if you frequent the beach. Lightning, tornadoes, hurricanes, tsunamis, and deer (TONS of people die each year in car accidents by hitting deer), than you are being killed by a dog, much less a pitbull specifically. I'm sorry, but statistics bring out the logic in me, and I love Spock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben. Posted May 10, 2005 Share Posted May 10, 2005 So, some guy gets bit by a dog when he's a kid. Now he fantasizes about running innocent animals over in his truck. I guess one nice thing about driving a Jeep (though to me they just shriek of latency), is that you can run critters over, and it won't cause damage to your vehicle. What's needed here is therapy, not legislation. One of you West Coasters go give the guy a hug or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted May 10, 2005 Share Posted May 10, 2005 I'll bring a pitbull puppy for him to cuddle.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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