Alas.. Another pitbull attack.

[customsteve01]

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On 5/9/2005 4:11:13 PM m00n wrote:

Amy, I have no reason to doubt you, non the less, they have little red beedy eyes and they hiss at you. I shudder just thinking about the nasty creatures.

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m00n,

LMAO what about an armadillo? they are just a opossum in a shell.

I think they are so ugly they are cute there was one at the office that cept eating some food that some of the women at work would put out for the bunnies in the atreum (sp) and he was huge must have been at least 2 feet long and really big around. I bet he would have had you climbing a tree.

hahahaha

Steve

[wheelman]

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On 5/9/2005 4:25:17 PM Royster wrote:

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many are. All the way up to the day they go biserk. Kind of like my x wife.

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Fortunately it didn't go biserk. Unfortunetly it was murdered.

[dragonfyr]

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On 5/9/2005 4:03:04 PM Tom Adams wrote:

Amongst multiple pontifications and eloquent, yet irrelevant, verbage, dragon said: "But I also believe that people have rights within the law. They also have responsibility. And I believe strongly in that responsibility."

So the question really becomes, what is society supposed to do when the vast majority of pit bull owners aren't responsible?&

nbsp; Do we just continue to mucker along hoping that owners will suddenly repent? At what point does society say "enough"?

As for harm being done by humans to humans....listen, there are very few instances where Uncle Bob was sitting on his porch and for no real apparent reason decides one day to jump off the porch, chase after the same mailman he's seen every day for 3 years, knock him down and proceed to beat the ever loving sh*t out of him. Or docile Aunt Cleo who one day decides she's had enough of the neighbors' 3 year old crying so she stops making her apple pie, runs over to the neighbors' yard and throttles the kid to death. People have the ability to think and reason - animals CANNOT!

The argument that banning the breed or severly limiting it is somehow an attack on our "personal freedoms" is (pit) bull at best. C'mon. We all know that people don't hunt with a Thompson sub-machine gun or any of the other various automatic weapons or "assualt rifles". We all know what those weapons are for just as we know 90+% of pit bull owners don't have the dog 'cause they're cute & cuddly.

Tom

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Irrelevant? Actually it speaks to larger principles then simply "dogs"! Sorry if that is such a difficult concept to grasp! It speaks to the larger role and scope of government and authority. It's funny how quickly they all line up wanting the government to extend its grasp when it is something that THEY WANT! But when the shoe is on the other foot it is abuse! And it sounds like the current debate between the left and the religious right! Both cannot tolerate the other group dictating their values,but each are equally ready to use the government to impose their own particular values on the other in the name of enlightened self-righteousness! And to the extent that they agree on using the government and the rule of law to perpetuate their own values at the expense of others - thus negating the concept of a limited and strictly defined (by the Constitution) government , they become 'liberal' - as oposed to those for who the scope of government is limited and strictly defined.

Sorry, I adhere to a more Libertarian conservative view where I support freedom but with responsibility. NOWHERE have I proposed in any form that ANY dog should be left unsupervised! But I have opposed all of the off the wall proposals to ban animals or anything else for that matter based on the potential for misuse by someone! EVERYTHING has the potential for misuse! The only limits to this madness are your own particular hangups! And I will support the rights of anyone - including those I disagree with (even those who want to own a pit bull) - to own one provided they are held responsible for properly maintaining the dog. And it seems to me that if adequate regulations regarding fencing and supervision are enforced, the danger can be mitigated.

If you don't like the laws, then clarify any shortcomings in the laws regarding barking or ownership control that you want. But address the behavior, not a particular breed based on your own emotional feelings. Of course, when you are finished bannng that group, we can start to identify the next group to ban!!!

And the "vast majority of pit bull owners aren't responsible". Really? Show me HARD verifiable evidence to support that! Unfortunately, your feelings ragarding that aren't quite sufficient! How can anyone make an absurd generalization like that! Oh, but "everyone knows"! BS!

But I am amazed at the lack of concern for the extent of government intrusion and a lack of awareness of the limit of the law and the Constitution. No wonder when they surveyed people on the street, they thought the Constitution was the Comunist Manifesto! It must come a quite a shock for the average person to ever read it!

So, in the spirit of confusing you even more ( I can see now that it will be quite a challenge! ), take a look at some STATISTICS that result from a STUDY of all the dog attacks and read the conclusions! And then run off and ban something else.

-----------------------------------

Todays media is filled with sensational headlines of dog attacks. Routinely quoted in these newspaper accounts are dated statistics from the Centers for Disease Control. The last CDC study released documented which breeds of dogs caused the most human fatalities from 1979 through 1998. While the CDC did an admirable job of studying fatal dog attacks, and went to great lengths to point out that irresponsible owners were the cause of most of these incidents, the media and lawmakers continue to use CDC statistics to substantiate claims that certain breeds of dogs are inherently more "vicious" than other breeds. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

The result of sensationalizing individual incidents of severe or fatal dog attacks, included with the use of unexamined statistical "evidence" has created an unfortunate and inaccurate public and political perception as to the dangerousness and predictability of certain breeds of dogs. Despite enormous public and political interest in fatal dog attacks, there is no agency or organization that does investigative work (with the exception of this study) into each of the individual cases of fatal dog attacks and records the number and circumstances of fatal dog attacks on a continuous, yearly basis.

This study is conducted in an attempt to understand the human and canine behaviors that contribute to a fatal dog attack. Only in understanding the events and circumstances surrounding these incidents can we hope to prevent future tragedies.

STUDY FINDINGS:

After reviewing over 431 cases of fatal dog attacks it is apparent there is no single factor that translates in a lethal encounter between a person and a dog(s). A fatal dog attack is always the culmination of past and present events that include: inherited and learned behaviors, genetics, breeding, socialization, function of the dog, physical condition and size of the dog, reproductive status of dog, popularity of breed, individual temperament, environmental stresses, owner responsibility, victim behavior, victim size and physical condition, timing and misfortune.

While many circumstances may contribute to a fatal dog attack, the following three factors appear to play a critical role in the display of canine aggression towards humans;

Function of the dog - (Includes: dogs acquired for fighting, guarding/protection or image enhancement)

Owner responsibility - (Includes: dogs allowed to roam loose, chained dogs, dogs and/or children left unsupervised, dogs permitted or encouraged to behave aggressively, animal neglect and/or abuse)

Reproductive status of dog - (Includes: unaltered males dogs, *****es with puppies, children coming between male dog and female dog in estrus)

It is necessary to emphasize that a fatal dog attack is an exceptionally unusual event. Approximating 20 deaths per year in a dog population of 53 million yields an infinitesimal percent of the dog population (.0000004%) involved in a human fatality.

THE BREED FACTOR

Many communities and cities believe that the solution to prevent severe and fatal dog attacks is to label, restrict or ban certain breeds of dogs as potentially dangerous. If the breed of dog was the primary or sole determining factor in a fatal dog attack, it would necessarily stand to reason that since there are literally millions of Rottweilers, Pit Bulls and German Shepherd Dogs in the United States, there would have to be countless more than an approximate 20 human fatalities per year.

Since only an infinitesimal number of any breed is implicated in a human fatality, it is not only unreasonable to characterize this as a specific breed behavior by which judge an entire population of dogs, it also does little to prevent fatal or severe dog attacks as the real causes and events that contribute to a fatal attack are masked by the issue of breed and not seriously addressed.

Pit Bulls in particular have been in a firestorm of bad publicity, and throughout the country Pit Bulls often bear the brunt of breed specific legislation. One severe or fatal attack can result in either restrictions or outright banning of this breed (and other breeds) in a community. While any severe or fatal attack on a person is tragic, there is often a tragic loss of perspective as to degree of dangerousness associated with this breed in reaction to a fatality. Virtually any breed of dog can be implicated in a human fatality.

From 1965 - 2001, there have been at least 36 different breeds/types of dog that have been involved in a fatal attack in the <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" />United States. (This number rises to at least 52 breeds/types when surveying fatal attacks worldwide). We are increasingly becoming a society that has less and less tolerance and understanding of natural canine behaviors. Breed specific behaviors that have been respected and selected for over the centuries are now often viewed as unnatural or dangerous. Dogs have throughout the centuries served as protectors and guardians of our property, possessions and families. Dogs have also been used for thousands of years to track, chase and hunt both large and small animals. These natural and selected-for canine behaviors seem to now eliciting fear, shock and a sense of distrust among many people.

There seems to be an ever growing expectation of a "behaviorally homogenized" dog - "Benji" in the shape of a Rottweiler. Breeds of dogs with greater protection instincts or an elevated prey-drive are often unfairly viewed as "aggressive or dangerous". No breed of dog is inherently vicious, as all breeds of dogs were created and are maintained exclusively to serve and co-exist with humans. The problem exists not within the breed of dog, but rather within the owners that fail to control, supervise, maintain and properly train the breed of dog they choose to keep.

CANINE AGGRESSION - AN OVERVIEW

It is important to emphasize that dogs bite today for the same reasons that they did one hundred or one thousand years ago. Dogs are no more dangerous today than they were a century or millennium ago. The only difference is a shift in human perception of what is and is not natural canine behavior and/or aggression and the breed of dog involved.

Examination of newspaper archival records dating back to the 1950s and 1960s reveal the same types of severe and fatal attacks occurring then as today. The only difference is the breed of dog responsible for these events. A random study of 74 severe and fatal attacks reported in the Evening Bulletin (Philadelphia, PA) from 1964-1968, show no severe or fatal attacks by Rottweilers and only one attack attributed to a Pit-Bull-type dog. The dogs involved in most of these incidents were the breeds that were popular at the time.

Over two thousand years ago, Plato extolled a basic understanding of canine behavior when he wrote "the disposition of noble dogs is to be gentle with people they know and the opposite with those they dont know...." Recently, this fundamental principal of canine behavior seems to elude many people as parents allow their children to be unsupervised with unfamiliar dogs and lawmakers clamor to declare certain dogs as dangerous in response to an attack.

Any dog, regardless of breed, is only as dangerous as his/her owner allows it to be.

Addressing the issue of severe and fatal dog attacks as a breed specific problem is akin to treating the symptom and not the disease. Severe and fatal attacks will continue until we come to the realization that allowing a toddler to wander off to a chained dog is more of a critical factor in a fatal dog attack than which breed of dog is at the end of the chain.

Only when we become more knowledgeable, humane and responsible in our treatment of dogs can we hope to prevent future tragedies.

THE STATISTICS - FATAL DOG ATTACKS IN THE U.S. FROM 1965 - 2001 *

The study covers 431 documented human fatalities from a dog attack.

Location of Attack

25% of all fatal attacks were inflicted by chained dogs

25% resulted from dogs loose in their yard

23% occurred inside the home

17% resulted from attacks by dogs roaming off their property

10% involved leashed dogs or miscellaneous circumstances

Number of Dogs

68% of all fatal attacks were inflicted by a single dog

32% was the result of a multiple dog attack

Victim Profile

79% of all fatal attacks were on children under the age of 12

12% of the victims were the elderly, aged 65 - 94

9% of the victims were 13 - 64 years old

The age group with the highest number of fatalities was children under the age of 1 year old; accounting for 19% of the deaths due to dog attack. Over 95% of these fatalities occurred when an infant was left unsupervised with a dog(s).

The age group with the second-highest number of fatalities were 2-year-olds; accounting for 11% of the fatalities due to dog attack. Over 87% of these fatalities occurred when the 2-year-old child was left unsupervised with a dog(s) or the child wandered off to the location of the dog(s).

Boys aged 1 - 12 years old were 2.5 times more likely to be the victim of a fatal dog attack than girls of the same age.

Breeds Involved

Pit Bull and Pit-bull-type dogs (21%), Mixed breed dogs (16%),

Rottweilers (13%), German Shepherd Dogs (9%), Wolf Dogs (5%),

Siberian Huskies (5%), Malamutes (4%), Great Danes (3%),

St. Bernards (3%), Chow Chows (3%), Doberman Pinschers (3%),

other breeds & non-specified breeds (15%).

Reproductive Status of Dogs

Overwhelmingly, the dogs involved in fatal dog attacks were unaltered males.

From 2000-2001 there were 41 fatal dog attacks. Of these, 28 were attacks by a single dog and 13 fatalities were caused by multiple dogs.

Of the 28 single dogs responsible for a fatal attack between 2000-2001;

26 were males and 2 were females. Of the 26 males, 21 were found to be intact (the reproductive status of the remaining 5 males dogs could not be determined).

States with the Most Fatalities - 1965-2001

California, 47; Texas, 32; Alaska, 26; Florida, 22; New York, 19; Michigan, 18; Illinois, 18; North Carolina, 17; Georgia, 16.

While at times informative, statistics on fatal dog attacks can also be misleading. For example, a number of cases were a Pit Bull, Rottweiler or GSD were counted as causing a human fatality were in reality the direct result of gross human negligence or criminal intent (i.e. discarding a newborn in the yard where the dogs were kept, or cases of extremely emaciated animals, or cases were the dog was ordered or encouraged to attack the victim).

This study was conducted not to determine which breeds of dogs caused fatalities, but rather to examine the circumstances and events that precipitated an attack. Knowing how many Pit Bulls or Rottweilers caused a human fatality has little applicable value, only when examining each case individually can we hope to gain insight into the HUMAN and CANINE behaviors that contributed to these tragic events.

http://www.fataldogattacks.com/statistics.html

[Royster]

Yet anther study. Look long enough and a study can be found to support any position. I see that this one was "fatal attacks". Guess having the sh(t chewed out of doesn't matter.

I spend 55 hours a week on the streets, and see the low lifes with there "pits". Don't need a study to see it. But thanks for the post. But then again what do I know, after all we are confused.

[sputnik]

What about the sadistic human garbage that abuses the right and privilege to own a dog? Are the cruelty/neglect laws strict enough? Here is a link to a web site I ran across awhile back. If you're easily disturbed, don't click on it.

Mean Streets

[mike stehr]

"Or how many clap there hands too hard and cause damage? Ban clapping."

I'd pay good cash to see somebody do that......

[dragonfyr]

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On 5/9/2005 7:34:52 PM mike stehr wrote:

"Or how many clap there hands too hard and cause damage? Ban clapping."

I'd pay good cash to see somebody do that......

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It's sarcasm!

You need to check out the other thread

[dragonfyr]

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On 5/9/2005 7:34:04 PM sputnik wrote:

What about the sadistic human garbage that abuses the right and privilege to own a dog? Are the cruelty/neglect laws strict enough? Here is a link to a web site I ran across awhile back. If you're easily disturbed, don't click on it.

Mean Streets

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People do dumb things. Hold them responsible.

And we wonder why some dogs end up mean. Wouldn't you be?

[dragonfyr]

Possums are pretty cool.

We used to catch them by blinding them at night with a light and pick them up by the tail and put them in a large run for the other Scouts to see at summer camp. Of course we used to catch skunks the same way (except in our underwear!) - well, with a little bit MORE finesse - so the scouts could see what the monsters that raided their camps looked like!

But when I was about 9,maybe 10, years old on my grandparents farm, I was exploring in the woods looking for snakes and turtles and I wandered upon a dead cow. You can imagine how fascinating that was to a kid! So, invariably I ended up poking it with a stick. And to my utter shock and horror the cow MOVED!!!!!

Well, after I got my heart out of my mouth, I ventured to gingerly poke it again. And sure enough, it moved again! And then a fat possum, slicked up with cow guts, waddles out from inside of the carcass!

That's one of those memories you never lose!

I have to admit, I have seen better looking road kill then some of the living dinosaurs they call possums. But they clean up pretty well, and I have seen a few that made pretty neat pets. But they belong in the wild... I just wish they wouldn't cause such a ruckus in the back yard. They and the racoons try to get into everything! But it's nice to still see a few wild things still around, so its hard to get too upset!

[m00n]

I like coons. We lived in an apartment building a long time ago, I had this one coon that would show up on our back porch about 3 times a week. He loved tweenkies and marshmellows. He was very cool, he'd take them right from my hand. I had him rather tame by the time we moved.

[Grateful11]

Posted on Thu, May. 05, 2005

4th-grader saves boy from pit bull

Associated Press

KNIGHTDALE, NC - A fourth-grader didn't hesitate when she saw a pit bull attack her 5-year-old neighbor and grabbed the 40-pound dog's collar even as it turned on her.

Asia Brantley saw the attack Tuesday morning and helped Tajh Tyndal escape with bites to the chest, legs, arms and left cheek. She said she had no choice but to help the boy.

"I thought (the dog) was trying to play with us, but he started biting on Tajh," she said. "That's when I knew he was serious."

The attack happened about 8:40 a.m. at a school bus stop a few miles northeast of Knightdale, school officials said.

Tajh and Asia were treated at WakeMed for bite wounds, then released, school officials said.

Scott Allen, field supervisor for the Wake County Animal Control Division, said officers captured the brown-and-white pit bull shortly after the attack. The animal is in a 10-day rabies quarantine as required by state law.

The dog had no identifying tags or microchips, Allen said, and officers are looking for its owner, who may face civil and criminal charges.

School bus driver Sharon Jeffreys, 45, saw the attack and grabbed a long ice scraper and tried to scare the dog, but it kept biting the girl.

Asia finally broke away and sought refuge on the bus.

[Grateful11]

And another:

THERAPY DOG HELPS GIRL, 8, AFTER MAULING

Source: KYTJA WEIR, Staff Writer

The 8-year-old girl mauled by a pit bull last weekend has used the help of another dog in her recovery. Yesenia Cruz was hospitalized for six days after a 2-year-old pit bull named "Juvenile" mauled her April 23 while she was at a family friend's home to get her hair braided. Her injuries included a damaged artery in her leg and multiple puncture wounds. She walked for the first time with a walker on Wednesday, her mother, Dana Cruz, said.

Published on May 2, 2005, Page 4B, Charlotte Observer, The (NC)

[dragonfyr]

Stray saves abandoned baby

09/05/2005 23:33 - (SA)

Nairobi - A nursing dog foraging for food retrieved an abandoned baby girl in a forest in Kenya and carried the infant to her litter of puppies, witnesses said on Monday.

The stray dog carried the infant across a busy road and a barbed-wire fence in a poor neighbourhood near the Ngong Forests in the capital, Nairobi, Stephen Thoya told the independent Daily Nation newspaper.

The dog apparently found the baby on Friday in the plastic bag in which the infant had been abandoned, said Aggrey Mwalimu, owner of the compound where the animal is living.

It was unclear how the baby survived in the bag without suffocating.

Doctors said the baby had been abandoned about two days before the dog discovered her.

Medical workers later found maggots in the infant's umbilical cord, a product of days of neglect, said Hannah Gakuo, of the Kenyatta National Hospital, where the girl was taken for treatment, on Monday.

No one has yet claimed the baby, she said.

But the 3.3kg infant "is doing well, responding to treatment, she is stable... she is on antibiotics," said Gakuo.

Workers at the hospital are calling the child Angel, she said.

http://www.news24.com/News24/Africa/News/0,,2-11-1447_1702210,00.html

[dragonfyr]

http://www.fataldogattacks.com/

http://www.pethelp.net/pits.html

http://www.dogwatch.net/myths/calgary_herald.html

[skonopa]

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On 5/9/2005 4:04:30 PM m00n wrote:

Reminds me of last Saturday night. I have a thing for Opossums. Some people have things for spiders, some for snakes, but for me, it's the Opossums. They freak me out, they send me into an almost uncontrollable sense of ebee gbees.

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Not to long ago, I was dikering around with my HT setup when I hear something rustling in the bushes outside my opened front window. I go and shine a flashlight through the window into the bushes, only to see a 'possum staring back up at me with those beady little eyes! Right in front of my friggan house!

One other time, a damn racoon managed to get into my attic! Tried to scare it back out by tossing firecrackers up there. I shine my flashlight up there and there he was - staring back at me with those beady little eyes!. A couple more firecrackers and I finally got that bastard to leave. Found out how he got in. After the hurricane we had here, some of the boards on the side vent got blown down. I had to nail those back up and re-install chickenwire screening (to keep the bats and birds (and racoons) out). I still haven't figured out how he got up there in the first place. My guess he climbed up the maple tree next to the house, and jumped on the roof, then managed to climb down into the side-vent.

As to the whole dog thing.

I agree with "when is enough is a enough". I mean, we had no less than five attacks within the past two months, with two friggan fatalities! One was completely unprovoked - a women in her own yard, walking her own, leashed, dog (a sher-pei). That is more dog attacks than I've seen in the previous 12 years I've been living here!

As to all the "why don't we ban cars, guns, etc, etc" arguments. That is a strawman, and only an attempt to shift the argument from the topic. Cars and guns are mechanical devices. They, by themselves, don't kill anybody. It is the irresponsible owners/operators that do. There are plenty of laws and guidelines in place, such as permitting/licensing, and so forth. Often times some type of safety class is required before one is permitted to own/operate a car or gun. I've never seen anything like that for dogs. Perhaps, before one is permitted to own a known, dangerous breed, such a class should be required. Unfortunatly, there will always be people that own/operate these things when they should not be. That will always be the case.

As to humans harming humans! Come-on, now there is a strawman if I've not seen one!

[MD1032]

Article

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

You've got the right, carry a weapon. If one attacks, DEFEND YOURSELF.

Cases like the child could have been avoided. That's parental irresponsibility. As for the old lady, well, that's just the dumb owners letting their dogs loose.

[Speedball]

lol...lol...lol..Wife found a possum' in the trash can last week so we turned the can over in the yard and 10 minutes later he was gone. They wouldnt be so ugly if it wasnt for the pointy tail with very little hair. He has very shiny white teeth too.

Couple years ago I picked up a young kid who seemed lost early one Saturday morning as he stopped on his bicycle to ask for directions.

Threw the bike in back of the truck and headed back into town. I noticed a lot of blood on his t-shirt so I asked him if he had been hurt. No, he said his dog died last night from losing a fight.

Meet all kinds of people in this world.

[Speedball]

from Dragon,

"I wonder why you folks are worried about dogs"

.....................................................

Speaking for myself here but when anyone or anything that poses a threat to me I just sort go into a defensive mode and I dont care if it is your pet or you.

Pass the Barbecue sauce please..tonight it's Pit on a Spit.

[dragonfyr]

I am tired of this. You folks swing from the poor victim mentality to the vigilanty mentality. Not one of you has used the available tools to resolve anything. You create an abstract problem bolstered by a few news stories and draw your own emotional conclusions. Do whatever you want. Just leave me and mine alone. Dogs are not independent agents, any more then children are. They are basically wards, with what would ordinarily be called a guardian - their owner. And the owner is responsible for the dog. Even if they are irresponsible. And they are also responsible for raising and training and supervising the dog.

So run around shooting things or whatever else you want to do. Personally, I have had more problems with kids vandalizing things. And I think I should be able to set perimeter defenses and give them a bit of a surprise. But I suspect some 'good' folks who want to carte blanch ban some group of dogs based on some out of context news stories will whine that its not nice to hurt the 'poor innocent' misunderstood kids.

Unfortunately, unless you can prove the adults willfully negligent, you can't recover damages from the kids. So even the destructive kids are not held accountable! So you're right. I've seem the light! So I propose that we deal with the kids in the same fashion that we deal with the dogs. And gangs, and frats, and the skies the limit! A shotgun should work just fine!

Make the rules, play by them! And if you make too much noise and disturb me with your damned Klipsch speakers, well, do I have a solution for you!

Stupid? Irresponsible? Heck no! I learned everything on this insane bulletin board!

[dragonfyr]

Poor victims. I seriously wonder when so many here seem to have problems with pit bulls. Perhaps you should quit socializing in the trailer parks. (No offense to anyone who has a trailer!!!!!)

Sell those damned KHorns and your tube gear with the $500/year retubing costs and move to a better quality neighborhood!