Piranha Posted May 19, 2005 Share Posted May 19, 2005 Attention: Calling all vinyl gurus! Please jump in here with your thoughts on these tables. Why should I buy one or the other, the pros and cons of each, etc. Any and all comments/suggestions/advice are welcome for this novice who is being reintroduced to vinyl after at least a 15 year layoff. Thanks in advance for your time in helping me achieve vinyl bliss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisK Posted May 19, 2005 Share Posted May 19, 2005 Piranha, Haven't been on the forum much in recent months, but I'll take a crack at this one. Seeing as how, according to your profile, you live in the Pasadena area, you might want to get in touch with Brooks Berdan. He's just down the 210 in Monrovia. Brooks sells and sets up as many TT's as just about anybody and has quite a lofty reputation in the high end business. His website is www.brooksberdanltd.com. I think he handles around 5-6 different TT manufacturers, including VPI. Had the Scout been available when I bought my Clearaudio Champion, I very well might own one today. That being said, the Champion sounds great to me. Good Luck, Chris ---------------- On 5/19/2005 8:38:02 AM Piranha wrote: Attention: Calling all vinyl gurus! Please jump in here with your thoughts on these tables. Why should I buy one or the other, th pros and cons of each, etc. Any and all comments/suggestions/advice are welcome for this novice who is being reintroduced to vinyl after at least a 15 year layoff. Thanks in advance for your time in helping me achieve vinyl bliss. http://forums.klipsch.com/idealbb/images/smilies/3.gif"> ---------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryC Posted May 19, 2005 Share Posted May 19, 2005 I can say with considerable confidence that the 2001 is an excellent turntable, because I've had a predecessor Ovation for at least a decade, eventually upgrading it to a sort of equivalent of the 2500 (a noticeable but not overwhelming change). I very much like its accuracy, neutrality, smoothness, clarity, and authoritative bass. Basis's website has just been greatly upgraded, with great information and pictures. I suggest you take a look and read its brief papers. AJ Conti took the pictures himself, incidentally, with impressive lighting and composition IMO. AJ's TTs are either black or clear acrylic; I suspect the website pics are of the clear acrylic because the photography is much easier, but I personally prefer the black. I doubt that the 1400 is that far behind, but have not heard one. I also have not had an opportunity to compare with any VPI, other than having heard a very good Aeries 2 w/SME tonearm at a local store, so I can't help with that part of your question. The tonearm is an important part of the vinyl equation. You should be looking at turntable-tonearm combinations, and aiming at Rega or JMW arms at a minimum. I have had a much more expensive Graham and now a Basis Vector; Gary was fortunate to have scored a rare used, mint Vector on Audiogon. Another important component, on some, perhaps all, TTs, is a record clamp and dust cover. The 1400 I linked in my earlier post was an especially good buy because it included a Basis clamp and dust cover. Those two items would add over $600 to the price if bought new! Another, expensive type of accessory is a power regenerator offered by some manufacturers, that can benefit motor smoothness somehow. MaxG just got one. Probably a whole n'other story. Hope this helps, Larry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audio Flynn Posted May 19, 2005 Share Posted May 19, 2005 That Dealer site is excellent. They even carry JA Michel. Will all they offer it would be a hard choice. Here is a link to my next Grado upgrade I am thinking about. http://www.gradolabs.com/frameset_main.htm Used VPI record cleaner for sale http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?anlgtabl&1121692276 THis Rega is worth considering http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?anlgtabl&1120507483 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++ PIR; My only concern are you are going right to the top end TT performance and not kind of sneaking up on it for analog. Getting a reasonable used TT from audiogon and taking it to this guy for cartridge and alignment/setup would be the best cheapskate (like me or Craig)way to get reintroduced to the "big black discs". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joessportster Posted May 19, 2005 Share Posted May 19, 2005 i just bought a basis 1400 with the rega 300, upgraded with the incognito wires and a grado referance sonata cartridge, picked it up off audiogon for under 1400 shipped and i can tell you this i have heard close to basis top TT at gary's and the 1400 definately holds its oun, i dont see any reason for me to upgrade further i am very happy with the sound reproduction all in all a great table, if i were pressed to make a complaint i would have to say it can be to good on inferior recordings so make sure you get quality albums or a very good cleaning machine, ( i also considered the scout and would have bought that if this had not came up, check a-gon there are 2 good deals on scouts right now Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jorjen Posted May 19, 2005 Share Posted May 19, 2005 Tom, you have mail!. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott0527 Posted May 19, 2005 Share Posted May 19, 2005 Piranah, You ever listen to a sprung table? I seem to be a loner among all the these Scouts and Basis tables here but I like the turntables like a Linn, Gyrodec or even a Thorens quite a bit. To me, those tables really draw me into the music. I had a Scout for 5 or 6 months and found it wasn't for me. It was very accurate for sure but I somehow didn't seem to get as much enjoyment out of it as I did my Linn LP12. Kind of like the way I can't quite get into CD's as much as vinyl ( anybody with a Scout, don't get excited, I'm just saying it wasn't for me. Doesn't mean it isn't a great turntable) I'm probably in the minority here in liking that type of turntable. None the less, if you're going to start looking at ScoutMaster money, don't rule out a Gyrodec SE or nice Linn LP12. Maybe give one a listen as see what you think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryC Posted May 20, 2005 Share Posted May 20, 2005 ---------------- On 5/19/2005 9:54:23 PM scott0527 wrote: You ever listen to a sprung table? I seem to be a loner among all the these Scouts and Basis tables here but I like the turntables like a Linn, Gyrodec or even a Thorens quite a bit. To me, those tables really draw me into the music. ---------------- You are not alone!! My Ovation and Gary's 2001 have damped spring suspensions. These need to be well isolated from floor and wall vibrations. I had a Linn at one time, and agree about it drawing one into the music. Larry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott0527 Posted May 20, 2005 Share Posted May 20, 2005 ---------------- On 5/20/2005 4:13:04 PM LarryC wrote: ---------------- On 5/19/2005 9:54:23 PM scott0527 wrote: You ever listen to a sprung table? I seem to be a loner among all the these Scouts and Basis tables here but I like the turntables like a Linn, Gyrodec or even a Thorens quite a bit. To me, those tables really draw me into the music. ---------------- You are not alone!! My Ovation and Gary's 2001 have damped spring suspensions. These need to be well isolated from floor and wall vibrations. I had a Linn at one time, and agree about it drawing one into the music. Larry ---------------- Hey that's cool. I didn't know the 2001 was a suspended table. I'm not familiar with the Ovation other than having heard OF it. There really are so many darned good turntables available today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryC Posted May 20, 2005 Share Posted May 20, 2005 ---------------- I'm not familiar with the Ovation other than having heard OF it. There really are so many darned good turntables available today. ---------------- The Ovation is now a 10 year-old model, quite large, weighing over 60 lbs. The 2001 is lighter, more compact. The 1400 is not suspended, incidentally. There sure are! A real vinyl, TT, tonearm and cartridge Renaissance is going on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garymd Posted May 20, 2005 Share Posted May 20, 2005 There is no way the 2001 could be used on anything but an isolated platform. The springs are just too sensitive. I believe that is one of the table's greatest strengths. Mine is on a shelf that sits on a concrete floor. The only upstairs option would be a wall mount. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben. Posted May 20, 2005 Share Posted May 20, 2005 My first generation AR was OK, but obviously not in the same league as the sprung tables mentioned. I know the AR's springs were designed to mechanically isolate the platter and tonarm from floor-borne vibration. What function do the Basis' springs serve if not isolation? I'm sure you guys understand this, but I'll say it anyway- I'm not calling into question the design or sound of these decks, just curious... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garymd Posted May 20, 2005 Share Posted May 20, 2005 ---------------- On 5/20/2005 9:33:02 PM ben. wrote: My first generation AR was OK, but obviously not in the same league as the sprung tables mentioned. I know the AR's springs were designed to mechanically isolate the platter and tonarm from floor-borne vibration. What function do the Basis' springs serve if not isolation? I'm sure you guys understand this, but I'll say it anyway- I'm not calling into question the design or sound of these decks, just curious... ---------------- Ben, I assume it doesn't isolate footsteps very well although I've never tested it for such and could be completely wrong. Just a theory. Isolates motor vibration extremely well and the background is a black as the night (while Louie was whiter than white........). Nevermind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben. Posted May 20, 2005 Share Posted May 20, 2005 That makes sense. Actually upon further thought, if the tonearm and platter aren't suspended from the same subchassis like the AR, I could see the springs making those disturbances worse. I love how turntables can take vastly disparate paths to excellent sound! And you're right, you lost me on the Louie thing... 'sOK, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryC Posted May 20, 2005 Share Posted May 20, 2005 ---------------- On 5/20/2005 10:05:57 PM garymd wrote: I assume it doesn't isolate footsteps very well although I've never tested it for such and could be completely wrong. Just a theory. Isolates motor vibration extremely well and the background is a black as the night (while Louie was whiter than white........). Nevermind. ---------------- I think Gary is right on target, plus the manufacturer believes it absorbs resonances in the TT-tonearm system. For his take on it, go to this web page and click on "Basis Suspension: Technical Paper." He is very enthusiastic, as you can see. His suspension is apparently geared to these things rather than floor vibration. Larry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragonfyr Posted May 20, 2005 Share Posted May 20, 2005 Brother Louie by Stories Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben. Posted May 20, 2005 Share Posted May 20, 2005 Thanks for the link, Larry. Interesting, and not as unrelated to the AR as I had thought, though obviously generations more advanced. Gary's description of the isolation mechanism had escaped my memory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted May 22, 2005 Share Posted May 22, 2005 Suspended tables.......... I never hear anyone mention Sota? Anyone have any comments they sure look awesome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Landau Posted May 22, 2005 Share Posted May 22, 2005 I prefer a heavy unsuspended table and feel that suspended tables sound too soft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott0527 Posted May 22, 2005 Share Posted May 22, 2005 I've never heard a Sota either. Read good things about them. "Soft" sounding, that's not a bad description. Even with hard rock that I listen to. The only two unsuspendeds I listened to for any length of time were and a Music Hall MMF-5 and the Scout model. I can defintely see how one can prefer one type over the other. On a sour note, I shouldn't have mentioned my Linn . The Vahalla power supply board burned out a resister and blew a fuse. Bad mojo. I hate getting anything fixed around here as it means at leat an hour drive to the nearest Linn dealer. It's getting on in age, was probably time for a "checkup" anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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