DRBILL Posted June 3, 2005 Share Posted June 3, 2005 Everybody knows that I don't work on SS equipment. I couldn't say "NO" to my son when he brought in an old family artifact, a MAC 4100, with a dead right channel. It took three days to find the problem and five minutes to fix it. Frankly, it isn't built to be serviced, like so many SS items. Everything is so close together that it is almost impossible to take measurements. I think they meant for the tech to swap boards, the way we used to swap tubes in our artless days before we gained theory and experience. Everything plugged in. Obviously, I didn't have any boards on the shelf to swap. And I have precious few instruments to test SS. So, I broke out my trusty old Heathkit IT-12 Signal Tracer and worked upstream (I did have schematics and block diagrams.). That works fairly well until you hit an IC chip. To make a long story short, it wasn't a transistor or shorted cap or any of a score of other headaches. It was a lackluster bad connection --a cold solder joint that waited twenty years to let go. If this had been a paying customer, he could have bought one that worked on e-bay cheaper. I don't like SS gear. I don't like how it sounds and I don't like the way it is designed with no regard for maintenance. The assumption is that it will last a long time and then you toss it any buy a new one. That's a prevalent mindset that will eventually bring us all to ruin. I feel so much better! Thanks. DR BILL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicholtl Posted June 3, 2005 Share Posted June 3, 2005 Rants are therapeudic, are they not? I wish I had a dad like you. One that could fix my gear in a jiffy if it ever broke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRBILL Posted June 3, 2005 Author Share Posted June 3, 2005 nicholtl, My kids are my life. The interesting thing about this whole episode is that one of my boy's friends had just purchased his first pair of Klipsch speakers, some very early Heresys, and he wanted something half way decent for his friend to show them off. The old MAC had been in storage and he had fond memories of it, before he had the revelations of vacuum tube equipment. Memory plays tricks. But it will do until his buddy has coins to get something decent. My son, a very decent professional musician, has my ear. SS goes through him like a hot hairpin. He wont like the MAC. But he will be able to guide his friend to the right stuff. Thanks. DR BILL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted June 3, 2005 Share Posted June 3, 2005 A friend of mine had me store his JBLs and Technics (huge!) receiver for him last year. The receiver was dead, and I told him that I would look at it. I found a bad cap in the PS, and had it mostly working, but there were close to ten seperate pc boards with ribbon cables going every which way. It gave out. It was a real pain to try to work on without any schematic or even a block diagram. He told me to toss it. I found an H/K 730 for him. Marvel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddy Dee Posted June 4, 2005 Share Posted June 4, 2005 Father Bill, Thanks for the post and congrats on getting the Mac going again. Ranting is allowed. Even when the rub comes from Great Dad Duties! Something familiar about that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dodger Posted June 4, 2005 Share Posted June 4, 2005 The victim of the disposable society. I've ranted about technology change just for change sake. If it breaks, buy a new one. Keeps profits higher for Companies when you just toss and buy new. Cram every feature which translates into more to break down. Keep a Seven or Ten year supply of parts then you're up the creek. Specialized ICs, Chips make sure that the units - even McIntosh will not have the lifespan that Tube units still have. I give you credit for your work at repairing with the equipment that you state. A lot of persistence. I hope that your Family appreciates that Dr. Bill. Adding Daddy Dee's comments show that though you call it a rant, you've shown what Family is, and does. Early Happy FATHER's Day to the both of You. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DizRotus Posted June 4, 2005 Share Posted June 4, 2005 DrB- What about SS tuners. Are they still allowed on your bench? I seem to recall that you once indicated that the benefits of tubes vs. SS were less obvious with tuners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted June 4, 2005 Share Posted June 4, 2005 I'm with Nick: I'm very envious of your son! He, and others (Jim Tidwell comes to mind) who have Dads that can perform (seemingly) electronic miracles are lucky, indeed! Actually, just still having your Dad is a huge bonus... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRBILL Posted June 5, 2005 Author Share Posted June 5, 2005 ---------------- On 6/4/2005 10:02:09 PM DizRotus wrote: DrB- What about SS tuners. Are they still allowed on your bench? I seem to recall that you once indicated that the benefits of tubes vs. SS were less obvious with tuners. ---------------- As the saying goes, garbage in, garbage out. I have just about given up on FM. But the answer is still "no" for the same reasons previously stated. I have a talent for restoring vacuum tube audio equipment. I understand it and my bench is equipped for it, I have parts on the shelf for it and I enjoy it. It is my niche. Why should I mess with SS? DR BILL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Posted June 5, 2005 Share Posted June 5, 2005 I hear ya! Draggin' gear out for repair every 20 years would really suck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DizRotus Posted June 5, 2005 Share Posted June 5, 2005 Dr Bill- <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /> I understand your frustration with FM and the garbage on the airwaves. In that context, I now feel that I understand your prior comment that the differences between SS and tubes for tuners might not be significant. Apparently, it was the medium, rather than the hardware, that minimalized the relative merits of SS vs. tube tuners. Despite your comments, I acquired a Dyna FM3 to supplement my Dynaco FM5. I also keep an H/K 430 receiver to use when my tube gear is undergoing repair and/or upgrades. But I agree, other than replacing fuses or possibly pots, I would not attempt to repair the H/K 430. Sadly, it would be easier and less expensive to buy another one. Im fortunate enough to be able to pull WDET (NPR in <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><?xml:namespace prefix = u1 />Detroit) and the CBC (Windsor, Ontario, Canada) out of the air. Each has an eclectic playlist and a quality signal. Ed Loves Destination Jazz airs on WDET weekdays from 7:00 PM 10:00 PM (EDT). WDET plays everything from Symphonic, Blues, and Blue Grass to Techno, at various times. The CBC plays mostly classical and some jazz. I often listen to jazz on After Hours on CBC radio 2 from 10:00 PM Midnight (EDT). Theyre also both available online: WDET: http://www.wdetfm.org/listenlive/ and CBC: http://www.cbc.ca/listen/index.html. Given your recent criticism of SS gear, I dont feel so bad about getting the FM3, even after you seemed to say not to bother. The FM3 is bone stock. What modifications would you recommend? Are the upgrades available below worth the cost and effort? Dynaco FM3 Tube Tuner Capacitor Board - FM-3 FM 3 Dynaco FM3 Tube Tuner Sonic Upgrade Kit FM-3 FM 3 Alternatively, do you have other suggestionsnot including dont bother? Feel free to reply through the Forum or to send an email to nkdisney@comcast.net, or to ignore this totally. My suspicion is that others on the Forum would also appreciate and benefit from your experience and opinions. Regards, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJkizak Posted June 5, 2005 Share Posted June 5, 2005 DrBill: I don't agree with you on any of your statements. JJK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dodger Posted June 5, 2005 Share Posted June 5, 2005 ---------------- On 6/5/2005 10:21:15 AM JJKIZAK wrote: DrBill: I don't agree with you on any of your statements. JJK ---------------- JJK: While I think I understand your thoughts - one tubed, one SS system, opening up the units and looking at the room to get around the wiring is noticeable. With newer tube the room to get around has decreased. I'm mainly speaking of Vintage and its simplicity. If I'm in err, no problems then. I have a Yamaha CR-1000, and a 620. Along with NAD, Adcom - it seems that ther ARE more features but they require more circuitry. It's not a right or wrong, it's more of a comment on a number of SS units and the view of Society towards repair of units vs replacement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seti Posted June 5, 2005 Share Posted June 5, 2005 ---------------- As the saying goes, garbage in, garbage out. I have just about given up on FM. But the answer is still "no" for the same reasons previously stated. I have a talent for restoring vacuum tube audio equipment. I understand it and my bench is equipped for it, I have parts on the shelf for it and I enjoy it. It is my niche. Why should I mess with SS? DR BILL ---------------- Have you thought about satalite XM radio. I had it in my truck for a while and the channels were amazing any genre you could think of and not just the popular stuff. I was listening to bands i had only read about or heard about. I will get XM radio for the home system eventually as it is a grerat way to learn about new music. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverSport Posted June 5, 2005 Share Posted June 5, 2005 Had I paid more attention to my father about tubes I am sure I would be running this kind of gear right now...problem is, I didn't and it seems that the learning curve on how to care for tube gear might be too much for this 43 year old... Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seti Posted June 5, 2005 Share Posted June 5, 2005 ---------------- On 6/5/2005 11:42:34 AM silversport wrote: Had I paid more attention to my father about tubes I am sure I would be running this kind of gear right now...problem is, I didn't and it seems that the learning curve on how to care for tube gear might be too much for this 43 year old... Bill ---------------- The only tube care I have had to do was replace two tubes. One channel didn't sound like the other channel so I started it swapping tubes from channel to channel till the problem replicated on the other channel then I replaced those tubes. The learning curve is not that high imho.: ). If you do run into a problem that you can't diagnose the members of this forum are always glad to give advice and help. I'd say go for it!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dodger Posted June 5, 2005 Share Posted June 5, 2005 ---------------- On 6/5/2005 11:42:34 AM silversport wrote: Had I paid more attention to my father about tubes I am sure I would be running this kind of gear right now...problem is, I didn't and it seems that the learning curve on how to care for tube gear might be too much for this 43 year old... Bill ---------------- Short hijack: A person with good reasoning, intelligence and patience tempered with a notion that if you have a diagram in front of you as to what tubes to put where, can learn. With tubes thmall tube have a definite pattern to the pins and the sockets, with the large output tubes there is an additional plastic key / guide plus pattern for fit. You can use different brands, different numbers but staying close to stock there is the tube substitution guide. If you have a friend that knows Tubed equipment, you can always rely on them and the Forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRBILL Posted June 5, 2005 Author Share Posted June 5, 2005 ---------------- On 6/5/2005 8:28:55 AM Fish wrote: I hear ya! Draggin' gear out for repair every 20 years would really suck. ---------------- Your point would be well-taken save for the details. I was willed this MAC along with two Cornwalls by an elderly single gentleman who was a retired air traffic controller. He was the kind of precise person who saved all the receipts and work orders. These were handed to me by the executor. The MAC had been in the shop three times: (1)a new pair of power transistors (which took out a woofer voice coil in spite of the elaborate "protector circuits." (Klipstein law IV.22) "A transistor protected by a fast-acting fuse will protect the fuse by blowing first." (2) a new FM tuner board. (3) a new power indicator board. If you add it all up, inculding the Cornwall woofer, you could have bought a new one. Forgive me for waving a bull in front of a red flag. DR BILL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRBILL Posted June 5, 2005 Author Share Posted June 5, 2005 ---------------- On 6/5/2005 10:21:15 AM JJKIZAK wrote: DrBill: I don't agree with you on any of your statements. JJK ---------------- Thank you. Your vote has been recorded. DR BILL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverSport Posted June 5, 2005 Share Posted June 5, 2005 Win, that's good to know but I always read you guys talking about balancing the framistat or futzing the output while clavening the input tubes...I want to sit down at a moments notice and push a button or flip a switch and hear music...I am intrigued by the mad scientist method of constantly tweaking dials but it is not for me...of course, never seeing my father do this with his tube gear perhaps I have fallen prey to a bit of disinformation??? YMMV Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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