Born2RockU Posted August 24, 2005 Share Posted August 24, 2005 What are the advantages of Cryo-genic treated tubes vs NOS or regular tubes ? ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnysal Posted August 24, 2005 Share Posted August 24, 2005 the cryo treatment is supposed to relieve stress in the metals used in the tubes (or cables, etc. whatever you cryo)...why this should make them sound better I have NO idea, but some people swear they sound better after treatment....ymmv, etc. tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted August 24, 2005 Share Posted August 24, 2005 Your tubes shiver this really helps symbols have the extra last bit of natural sound. You being a drummer and all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrestonTom Posted August 24, 2005 Share Posted August 24, 2005 re: Cryogentic-treatment I visited the web site for one of the more popular cryogentic treatment services (speaker wire, interconnects, tubes etc). I tried to keep an open mind while I read their "explanations" and "results" It was difficult to keep an open mind... This is the biggest load of nonsense that I have ever heard. Once again I will proclaim: If you are using Klipsch speakers do not worry about fancy amps (the cabinets are efficient and present an easy load for an amp; however do worry about any hum or hiss); do not worry about speaker wire or interconnects (more nonsense); do not worry about the current flavor of capacitor or line conditioner.... Rather, spend your time on on speaker placement and room treatment. These have noticebale effects (and, of course, use well-recorded material). The other stuff only makes greedy people/vendors/manufacturers (or fuzzy-thinking people) rich. A cynical and grumpy, -Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Born2RockU Posted August 24, 2005 Author Share Posted August 24, 2005 Interesting. The seller of the PEACH told me I will get cryoed tubes w/ it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddy Dee Posted August 24, 2005 Share Posted August 24, 2005 Yeh, won't hurt to get the c-tubes with the Peach... and interesting for a listen. A couple of years ago I read a post by a forum member who was swearing by cryo tubes. I thought, well what the heck. Always thought it was snake oil, but if a forum bud liked them, I'd check them out. Got a pair of 6SN7 for my Wrights. Thought they sounded like crap. Maybe just a bad match in that amp, but it doesn't really make sense to me as to why they should sound better. I am suspicious that it is just a way to sell cheap Chinese tubes for more money. Wonder you could tell if they had been cryoed or not... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted August 24, 2005 Share Posted August 24, 2005 I can't think of a faster way to stress a tube -- ice it and then expose it to room temperature. "If you are using Klipsch speakers do not worry about fancy amps (the cabinets are efficient and present an easy load for an amp." Just because a speaker is efficient doesn't mean it presents an "easy" load. All of the stock networks present fairly reactive loads to an amplifer, and my personal opinion is that they present anything but an "easy" load for an amp. No, you don't need a "fancy amp", but you should probably make sure you have one that delivers flat response while being presented with large swings in impedance. No big deal with solid state, but tube users need to choose wisely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkrop Posted August 24, 2005 Share Posted August 24, 2005 Symbols= Cymbals in "Craigspeak" LOL! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meuge Posted August 24, 2005 Share Posted August 24, 2005 Hmm... the upside is I have enough liquid nitrogen to freeze anything. Now if I only had a tube preamp! I guess I'll be dipping my tubes in the nitrogen... right before I use it to make some cryogenic ice cream. Yum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay481985 Posted August 24, 2005 Share Posted August 24, 2005 ---------------- On 8/24/2005 9:56:24 PM meuge wrote: Hmm... the upside is I have enough liquid nitrogen to freeze anything. Now if I only had a tube preamp! I guess I'll be dipping my tubes in the nitrogen... right before I use it to make some cryogenic ice cream. Yum. ---------------- i rather not use the liquid nitrogen that is cryogenically holding the sperm.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seadog Posted August 24, 2005 Share Posted August 24, 2005 There is sound material science behind the cryo treatment for some materials. I know a guy that has a business that does this. I've seen the "machine", and it is pretty simple, basically a big deep freezer looking thing with piping to allow liquid nitrogen to fill it up - of course after you have put in all of the stuff that you want to freeze at extremely low temperatures for about 24 hours. Credible studies have proven that strength and durability for some materials is improved after the treatment, especially some plastics, and even some metals. I have no idea how or if it could improve the performance of an audio tube. Perhaps it could extend the life?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSharp Posted August 24, 2005 Share Posted August 24, 2005 ---------------- On 8/24/2005 10:09:15 PM Seadog wrote: There is sound material science behind the cryo treatment for some materials. I know a guy that has a business that does this. I've seen the "machine", and it is pretty simple, basically a big deep freezer looking thing with piping to allow liquid nitrogen to fill it up - of course after you have put in all of the stuff that you want to freeze at extremely low temperatures for about 24 hours. Credible studies have proven that strength and durability for some materials is improved after the treatment, especially some plastics, and even some metals. I have no idea how or if it could improve the performance of an audio tube. Perhaps it could extend the life?? ---------------- A lot of metal parts are cryo treated. Things in the aerospace industry, high stress parts for use motorsports, and firearms are three I can think of off the top of my head. I even have a rifle that was cryo treated. But making an audible difference in tubes ?!? Place me in the *very* skeptical section. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshnich Posted August 24, 2005 Share Posted August 24, 2005 I have compared cryo tubes in a few pieces of equipment and can say that I have noticed a difference. I tried cryoed KT 88s in my Cary Rocket 88 and found them to be very detailed and alive but a little bright compared to the other tubes I had to roll. I believe the others were Sovecks and JJs. I bought my wright phono stage from a local audio shop that rewires them with some home brew wire and fits them with cryoed NOS(6er5s, 12au7s plus the rectifier which I cant remember) tubes. The phono stage is magnificant. I dont know if its because of the mods and frozen tubes but it sure is sweet! BTW If anyone wants to try a set of KT 88 cryoed tubes let me know and Ill send them out to you. Only condition is that you post your comments and send them back at some point! Josh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben. Posted August 24, 2005 Share Posted August 24, 2005 Well, it's fair to say that cryogenic treatment can certainly alter the physical properties of materials. I would think it's also fair to say that those altered physical properties could result in altered electrical properties as well. Better? Worse? Tough to A/B for curiousity's sake. It would be interesting to see what difference treating individual elements in the tube prior to assembly would make. Changing the properties of the plates or grids might lead somewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted August 24, 2005 Share Posted August 24, 2005 A tube is plastic, metal, and glass -- and all three have different rates of expansion and contraction. To me, it just sounds like stress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben. Posted August 24, 2005 Share Posted August 24, 2005 Can't argue with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSharp Posted August 24, 2005 Share Posted August 24, 2005 ---------------- On 8/24/2005 11:03:10 PM DeanG wrote: A tube is plastic, metal, and glass -- and all three have different rates of expansion and contraction. To me, it just sounds like stress. ---------------- I'm not familiar with the process on anything other than metals. On metals, a further heat treating is required after the cryo treatment to complete the stress relief process and maintain the material properties. I don't know how you'd do that with something like a tube. I'm afraid you'd either not get be able to heat the metal sufficiently for full stress relief, or if you did, I don't know how you'd keep the nonmetallic components from losing some of their properties. I've had work done by these guys - http://www.300below.com/site/home.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay481985 Posted August 24, 2005 Share Posted August 24, 2005 I know that forging does alter the molecular compound of many metals. I guess cryo freezing is sorta like forging? since you rapidly cool an item you may change the structure? but forging is done when the material is excited to near liquid state with lots of energy while cryo freezing does not start at the excited state but at a normal state. Maybe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soundthought Posted August 24, 2005 Share Posted August 24, 2005 Hey all, Interesting topic. Naysayers be warned. Here's my opinion... Cryogenics, in this case, really has more to do with bringing the speed of the particles of the material in question to a near halt then raising the temp to specific levels over a pre-determined amount of time. The change occurs as the particles re-accelerate. At a molecular level, the material in question would presumably have a more linear particle alignment. If you prescribe to the mindset of testing the boundries of modern day physics, then you can plainly see some of the benefits as it regards cryo-tubes. Personally.....I never tried 'em. I can't see spending the extra dough on them. I'm half dutch..what can I say? Ha Ha But, I still like to keep an open mind about these things. YOU NEVER KNOW. Do you? Heck, i'd like try a set of 12ax7s, if they can be had on the cheap. Unfortunately, the market isn't exactly flooded with them, yet. Food for thought. Regards, John. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddy Dee Posted August 25, 2005 Share Posted August 25, 2005 What would be needed then for a "real" test would be a pair of cryo treated tubes to compare with the same model tube that has not been cryotreated. It would be most interesting to pass out to folks with an unidentifiable (to the user) indicator as to which is which. Then let the reports come in. . . as to which the user prefers, or if a "difference" can be discerned. If the experimenter wanted to be unkind, he/she would pass out the same tube and let the user's own mind determine which is best. Hearing something that one is supposed to hear is an extraordinarily powerful influence on the subjective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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