I'm starting to lose interest in tubes

[maxg]

"1. far more expensive then a solid state amp of comparable output and quality"

Actually most people get into tubes because they can be had relatively cheaply for the audio quality they offer. Output levels is more of a tricky on as they are generally not regarded as comparable. Tubes with an output of, say. 30 watts will often give the impression of having as much power as an SS amp with, say, 60. This is more to do with the type of clipping tube amps seem to present in comparison to SS amps than anything else but the effect is there all the same.

2. less reliable, more need of 'maintenance' & repair

Agreed - tube amps are for "hands on" types.

3. requires a like-wise expensive pre-pro

Well obviously not if it is an integrated amp but even if not there are a plethora of relatively inexpensive tube preamps out there to choose from that are sonically excellent.

One of the members of this board, for example, makes a tube pre-amp that sells for around $600 brand spanking new with warranty - the whole 9 yards. I have not heard this pre-amp but I believe it is a wizard!

Or is it the engine on a Harrier jump jet?

[tubes for life]

Newbie here. I have found that for the $$$, the DODD ELP is a magnificent tube pre. It uses 2 6DJ8/7308/6922 variants. The Dodd can be had for around $500 brand new with 2 in and 2 outs. It's a minimalist design, hand built, and of the highest build quality. If anyone here has experience with one, they should know what I'm talking about. Every once in a while, one can be found on Audiogone in the $400 range in very good to mint condition. Just a heads up and another alternative.

And yes, if you get a quality tube pre in front of that 70, you will be in audio nirvana.

Cheers

[audiobliss69]

'audiogone'? What's that? []

I've also heard that the Dodd ELP (as well as their other offerings)

are great, solid pieces that offer a lot of performance for the dollar.

*sigh* I certainly hope to be able to tell of the great sounds of tubes here one day.

[tillmbil]

If you are going to spend around $500.00, the Merlin for $600.00 brand new is a no brainer. Do not listen to what any else says. I have an extensive amount of SS gear, both new and old. The only thing I have not done is spend the big bucks for a Krell, Levinson, or the like SS amp. I do have a B&K 50 pre for $3,000.00 and I cannot say it was worth the money sonic ally.

I do have a $1800.00 Extreme and it was definitely worth the money sonic ally. Made by Juicy Music who makes the Merlin. If you sell the ST 70 the Merlin would make a SS amp sound great. JMO.

[Deang]

Colin -- The 9kHz "bounce back" is from the K-55-V with spring loaded terminals. Since there is no bandpass on the squawker there is nothing to stop the spike from shooting into the tweeter's acoustic response. All of these drivers have it -- 2 in 5 have it bad. The answer is to roll off the squawker's response or use a P-trap. For whatever reason -- most remain in denial and choose to embrace the effect. I believe it's referred to as wincing in the midrange.

[garymd]

While waiting for my Blueberry to arrive, I had my SACD player hooked up directly to my MkIIIs. Like Dean said, it sounded lousy....thin and lifeless.

A good tube pre with your ST-70 and cornwalls and you should NEVER find the need for a loudness switch. I've been there. I have a sub hooked up to my Scott 299b (with cornwalls) and use it about 5% of the time, if that.

You cannot make such a decision without hearing it with a good tube pre. It's night and day.

As others have already said, the Merlin would be one of many nice choices. I would certainly lean toward the Merlin myself after owning the Blueberry and Blueberry Xtreme. I seriously doubt you'll get better sound in a new unit for the money and Mark is great to deal with. If you're into vinyl however, you'll need to look elsewhere.

I've owned quite a few tube amps/preamps over the past few years and I've never lost a tube due to wear and only once did I have a tube go bad. It was due to a loose tube socket which Craig helped me diagnose and correct in about 5 minutes.

Most equipment problems are age related and SS units are not exempt from these problems either.

Good luck! I hope to hear you've given it a shot.

[fini]

"Most equipment problems are age related..."

That's confirmed by my doctor.

[Duke Spinner]

"Most equipment problems are age related..."

That's confirmed by my doctor.

Prostate ...????

[Woodog]

Ok BS, I'm leaving town on Thursday heading to Hope with my 208 and Corns, so I'm going to drop off my Scott 355 for you to listen to. Nosvalves did it right, and that baby sings.

The pre-amp makes a huge difference. I don't know much, but I know that.

I won' t let you say no either, so don't try. []

Woo

[Deang]

Good luck trying to yank it out of his system when you leave.[]

[busterfree]

If you are going to spend around $500.00, the

Merlin for $600.00 brand new is a no brainer. Do not listen to

what any else says. I have an extensive amount of SS gear, both

new and old. The only thing I have not done is spend the big

bucks for a Krell, Levinson, or the like SS amp. I do have a

B&K 50 pre for $3,000.00 and I cannot say it was worth

the money sonic ally.

I do have a $1800.00 Extreme and it was

definitely worth the money sonic ally. Made by Juicy Music who

makes the Merlin. If you sell the ST 70 the Merlin would make a

SS amp sound great. JMO.

I am not an expert, but I can give you my $0.02.

I use a 2 channel system for music, dvds, and tv. I have a Scott 222C

that I think sounds great. I wanted to go with a ss amp and tube preamp

to have as a backup or main system depending on which sounded better. I

got the Merlin and an older rotel amp. This combo bested the Scott.

The Merlin and a ss amp sounds great with my speakers. I have not listened to the Cornwalls.

[Audio Flynn]

While waiting for my Blueberry to arrive, I had my SACD player hooked up directly to my MkIIIs. Like Dean said, it sounded lousy....thin and lifeless.

===========

Variable ourput on any digital device is not going to near the perfomance of a reasonable line stage.

"Bested the Scott" in what aspect?

[Cal Blacksmith]

Not to be overlooked in the $700 price range for a pre is the Grounded

Grid by Bruce Rozenblit at http://www.Transcendentsound.com an

outstanding piece of gear.

[Deang]

Earlier in thread, Todd had said, "The Peach is what I really desire with that HT bypass and more inputs than the Merlin."

Just something to keep in mind when making your recommendations. He wants plenty of inputs, and a bypass feature.

[whell]

I have to admit that all the talk about tubes in this forum made me very inquisitive about the possibility of adding a tube pre or tube integrated to my 2 channel set up. For lots of reasons, paramount the amount of extra work and tweaking than this untrained, uninitiated audioputz would have to do to get more sweat than enjoyment out of my system made me think twice, and I decided to keep what I've got. I think I'm hearing some of that resignation/frustration in Todd's comments from first hand experience with his Dynaco. Nothing wrong with tubes if you have confidence in your knowledge about tube gear, and what to do if you think you hear something amiss. However, solid state is alot more "set and forget", it seems to me, than tube gear.

[Speedball]

......if anyone wants to put me on their Christmas gift list for a Peach please feel free to contact me.......[]

[busterfree]

I have to admit that all the talk about tubes in this forum made me very inquisitive about the possibility of adding a tube pre or tube integrated to my 2 channel set up. For lots of reasons, paramount the amount of extra work and tweaking than this untrained, uninitiated audioputz would have to do to get more sweat than enjoyment out of my system made me think twice, and I decided to keep what I've got. I think I'm hearing some of that resignation/frustration in Todd's comments from first hand experience with his Dynaco. Nothing wrong with tubes if you have confidence in your knowledge about tube gear, and what to do if you think you hear something amiss. However, solid state is alot more "set and forget", it seems to me, than tube gear.

You do not need lots of knowledge to own and operate tube gear. I know that I do not have a lot knowledge, but I am glad that I got some tube gear.

Tube products can be set and forget it. You just have to resist the temptation to try different tubes and/or buy gear. Once you find something that sounds good, stick with it.

[DrWho]

CD direct is a lifeless and sterile sound. I think

it sounds terrible. The only thing I can think of that has what you are

looking for at the price you want it at is an Anthem Pre1L. You can

probably get a 2 now for less than $450. Highly recommended -- I've

owned one three times. Get a decent tubed unit in front of that amp and

you won't need a loudness button.

you need to visit artto's place then...it CAN be done []

[jbsl]

I agree tube amps do require a little more attention but once you find tubes you like and set the bias you should not have to mess with again for 6 months.

I have a Transcendent Sound Ground Grid tube preamp and just got a Merlin tube preamp and both sound very good. I have a Cayin TA 30 tube int amp and I do not like using it with either preamp sounds dull and lifeless. I know the TA 30 is no VRDs or Quicksilvers but it is a good tube amp unless I use it with these preamps. I hook the TA 30 up to my Solid state Luxman preamp and it sounds very good. Finding equipment that really sounds good together can be frustrating experience I know. I am at the point now where I have 3 very good preamps and will probably be selling the Ground Grid preamp. If you want to try it I could ship it to you and let you use it for a couple of weeks and if you like it you can buy it if not send it back. This way you can know if a preamp will help or not.

So far the 2 tube preamps sound better with solid state amps and the tube amp sounds better with a solid state preamp. Guess I'm just bass ackwards!! I'm still reviewing the Merlin and will post a comparison to the Ground Grid, and Luxman preamps using 3 different amps.

I would try a preamp, solid state or tube, before selling your amp.

Xman

[Marvel]

If I remember correctly, the Panor ST-70 uses LEDs to set the bias (you still tweak the pots, but the LEDs are the indicators). That makes it pretty painless. My ST-70 outlived my other SS units.

A tube pre will require no adjusting. I think one of the things that makes the Merlin a great buy is that it also has a tube rectified ps. And everything fits inside the case. The GG by Transcendent would be nice too. A good looking package. Still only single outs though.

I am using my Merlin feeding an Alesis SS power amp at the moment, so that my wife doesn't have to pay attention to the hot EL34s. It sounds great with the HIIs. Good bass and excellent imaging. Shows bad recordings for what they are though-- bad recordings. The good ones are superb.