Jeff Matthews Posted March 3, 2006 Share Posted March 3, 2006 Probably not a tweeter problem either..... My meaning was the major problem is not the speakers at all. Craig Meaning - lower end AVR receiver - right? (please say yes LOL) It seems it's a hint at tubes. I've got a question for you techies out there...... Let's say, for sake of argument, sand amps deliver a harsher high range than tubes. The tubes either (1) take away the frequencies that deliver the harshness, or (2) do not produce the frequencies that deliver the harshness. Those are the only variables I can think of. Why can't all this take place on an EQ or mixing board? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3dzapper Posted March 3, 2006 Share Posted March 3, 2006 "Let's say, for sake of argument, sand amps deliver a harsher high range than tubes. The tubes either (1) take away the frequencies that deliver the harshness, or (2) do not produce the frequencies that deliver the harshness. Those are the only variables I can think of" The difference lies in the harmonic signature. SS being primarily odd order which are unnatural. Valve possessing the complete set primarily even as found in a natural envrionment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Matthews Posted March 3, 2006 Share Posted March 3, 2006 "Let's say, for sake of argument, sand amps deliver a harsher high range than tubes. The tubes either (1) take away the frequencies that deliver the harshness, or (2) do not produce the frequencies that deliver the harshness. Those are the only variables I can think of" The difference lies in the harmonic signature. SS being primarily odd order which are unnatural. Valve possessing the complete set primarily even as found in a natural envrionment. 'Splain, please! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meagain Posted March 3, 2006 Share Posted March 3, 2006 Jeff - I "THINK" it has to do with pureity/quality. Tubes lend that, and SS with all the hoops sound needs to jump through do more the opposite. At least that's what I'm gleaning. Quality & purity? And... I "THINK" an EQ wouldn't afford that. It would change the sound 'level' at any given frequency, but not affect genuine quality/tone? And if one tones down a harsh section with EQ, it's just turning down the volume on a bad part. A bandaid. Not a fix. More for trying to fix a goofy room. I "think". (sorry - don't mean to muck up this tweeter thread). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-MAN Posted March 3, 2006 Share Posted March 3, 2006 As discussed plenty of times in the past - the Heritage exponential horns do not provide a smooth launching point for the sound coming off the mouth of the horn, and reflected energy around and off the mouth travels back towards the throat which contributes to a condition commonly referred to as "throat distortion". Dean, you're pretty much on the money EXCEPT for that part... I'm nit-picking, I know. Three things: 1) the reversed-flow waveform if any (reflection from the mouth) is out of phase as it travels backwards down the horn, so it cancels. It has nothing to do with throat distortion. It can be heard as a "peaky" response. 2) Baffles help prevent the "curling around" of the waveform at the mouth. It tends to effect unbaffled horns, and is wavelength related. 3) throat distortion is generally caused by overload; it's also called "throat overload distortion" - caused by too much sonic energy trying to move through too small of a space. It acts as a constriction, and it is amplitude (r.e., velocity) sensitive. Turning the volume up only makes it worse as Dean said. For those interested in high SPL output, they should consider switching to "professional" PA-type horns and drivers rather than the ones intended for domestic stereo (i.e., low average SPL) situations. I tend to prefer the larger throat horns and drivers specifically because they are naturally less prone to throat overload distortion. The listening space, however, also has a maximum level that it can handle, too. Dana Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoubleJ Posted March 3, 2006 Share Posted March 3, 2006 Hi: Thank you all that gave some tips on how to change out the tweeters on my '78 K-Horns. Seeing that it isn't as bad as I thought, I'll be buying a pair shortly. BEC: I think you should change your screen name to Mr Gaunt, the character from the book and movie..Needful Things. You seem to have just what people want/need. [] Hopefully you won't start making us do crazy outlandish things in order to obtain your wares. Thanks again everyone!!! JJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted March 3, 2006 Share Posted March 3, 2006 'Splain, please! I'm the master at stating things simply. Inexpensive SS sucks....... You have to go deep in the wallet with SS to get reasonable sound top to bottom IMHO. Craig PS I ain't talking no Crown Microtech 1200 amp either [] (To my ears that is) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garymd Posted March 3, 2006 Share Posted March 3, 2006 Hi: Thank you all that gave some tips on how to change out the tweeters on my '78 K-Horns. Seeing that it isn't as bad as I thought, I'll be buying a pair shortly. BEC: I think you should change your screen name to Mr Gaunt, the character from the book and movie..Needful Things. You seem to have just what people want/need. [] Hopefully you won't start making us do crazy outlandish things in order to obtain your wares. Thanks again everyone!!! JJ Ah, Needful Things. Another great Stephen King book. Fits well although I doubt Bob is quite as devious as Mr. Gaunt![6] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacksonbart Posted March 3, 2006 Share Posted March 3, 2006 Cripes!!! Crites makes a nice tweeter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Matthews Posted March 3, 2006 Share Posted March 3, 2006 'Splain, please! I'm the master at stating things simply. Inexpensive SS sucks....... You have to go deep in the wallet with SS to get reasonable sound top to bottom IMHO. Craig PS I ain't talking no Crown Microtech 1200 amp either [] (To my ears that is) How deep in the wallet? How about naming some of the least expensive SS that, in your opinion, give reasonable sound top to bottom? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travisc Posted March 3, 2006 Share Posted March 3, 2006 Heres what I got....actually I got two of them they went for about 5k when new DBX BX1.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted March 3, 2006 Share Posted March 3, 2006 'Splain, please! I'm the master at stating things simply. Inexpensive SS sucks....... You have to go deep in the wallet with SS to get reasonable sound top to bottom IMHO. Craig PS I ain't talking no Crown Microtech 1200 amp either [] (To my ears that is) How deep in the wallet? How about naming some of the least expensive SS that, in your opinion, give reasonable sound top to bottom? At the various audio shows and systems in homes that I thought sounded good top to bottom in SS the preamp/amp system cost was in the 10K and up range. One system I really like is made by a really cool Chinese guy from Canada the company name is Blue Circle but this setup is tube preamp with SS amps driving very power hungry speakers. To be totally honest I have never heard a SS amp/preamp combo on Klipsch Heritage speakers playing music that really impressed all that much. Of course this is just to my taste... I don't listen at 120dB while playing drums[] Craig PS relax dude when I put a winky it means I'm ribbing you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Spinner Posted March 3, 2006 Share Posted March 3, 2006 ooohhhh .. whata stick in the eye ......[] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Matthews Posted March 3, 2006 Share Posted March 3, 2006 'Splain, please! I'm the master at stating things simply. Inexpensive SS sucks....... You have to go deep in the wallet with SS to get reasonable sound top to bottom IMHO. Craig PS I ain't talking no Crown Microtech 1200 amp either [] (To my ears that is) How deep in the wallet? How about naming some of the least expensive SS that, in your opinion, give reasonable sound top to bottom? At the various audio shows and systems in homes that I thought sounded good top to bottom in SS the preamp/amp system cost was in the 10K and up range. One system I really like is made by a really cool Chinese guy from Canada the company name is Blue Circle but this setup is tube preamp with SS amps driving very power hungry speakers. To be totally honest I have never heard a SS amp/preamp combo on Klipsch Heritage speakers playing music that really impressed all that much. Of course this is just to my taste... I don't listen at 120dB while playing drums[] Craig PS relax dude when I put a winky it means I'm ribbing you. I knew that! I was playing along to see if I was right.... That is, that you need to spend $10k on an SS amp to compete with a $3k set of tube blocks. [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted March 3, 2006 Share Posted March 3, 2006 I knew that! I was playing along to see if I was right.... That is, that you need to spend $10k on an SS amp to compete with a $3k set of tube blocks. [] No you have it wrong I wasn't referring to excellent sound. For that in SS you have to spend about 30K......... and about 5K in tubes. I'm talking amp preamp combo's. The price disparity from good sound to excellent sound is extreme. Just like going from a quick drag racing car to a fast car. Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted March 3, 2006 Share Posted March 3, 2006 Thanks for the corrections Dana! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seadog Posted March 3, 2006 Share Posted March 3, 2006 I knew that! I was playing along to see if I was right.... That is, that you need to spend $10k on an SS amp to compete with a $3k set of tube blocks. [] No you have it wrong I wasn't referring to excellent sound. For that in SS you have to spend about 30K......... and about 5K in tubes. I'm talking amp preamp combo's. The price disparity from good sound to excellent sound is extreme. Just like going from a quick drag racing car to a fast car. Craig Thanks for that clarification, Craig [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Matthews Posted March 4, 2006 Share Posted March 4, 2006 I knew that! I was playing along to see if I was right.... That is, that you need to spend $10k on an SS amp to compete with a $3k set of tube blocks. [] No you have it wrong I wasn't referring to excellent sound. For that in SS you have to spend about 30K......... and about 5K in tubes. I'm talking amp preamp combo's. The price disparity from good sound to excellent sound is extreme. Just like going from a quick drag racing car to a fast car. Craig Wow, the disparity is now $25k. That's how much I can "save?" [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted March 4, 2006 Share Posted March 4, 2006 Solid state amplifiers in general are rated "with both channels driven at full output". The reason they spec them like this is because solid state has lower distortion at the top of its operating range -- at the bottom the numbers don't look so hot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted March 4, 2006 Share Posted March 4, 2006 Dean, Aren't you still using the QSC amp? I have been tempted to get one myself. Bruce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.