belle klipsch for sale

[bobs2010]

i started with a used fisher back about 1959 it was mono - what wasn't then

my first new amp was a scott in about 1963-64 still mono and tubes

i gave up hifi in the mid 60's to go off to school- beer - cars- the usual - just starting stereo

some of my old stereo lp's were mono remastered to stereo in the late 60's i had a used pioneer system. i think the beatles white album and the pioneer burned out at the same time

the late 60's and early 70's was devoted to driving an old vw bus down every road in the us and canada just having a look see

my next system was a scott -transistor amp-about 40 watts and some used pioneer speakers

about 1975 i bought a pair of klipsch heresy -nice-(so i thought) the scott amp didn't do well with the heresy s' tho so i bought a nad then i bought the belle klipsch - a total thing of beauty

nice speakers - crummy integ amp

now --after 10 years of not using these beauty speakers- - to repower them i have to spend alot of money (and pay to rebuild) for some amp i threw away 40 years ago?? the scotts and fishers really weren't that good then maybe the mcintosh was- but i hadn't ever had a mcintosh

hasn't anything good happened in the last 10+ years in amps???

no decent amps ?

i am not going to spend $2000-$2500 for a pair of used mc 30's and plus some used pre/amp

plus rebuild and retube there has to be something recent and decent

that's what i am seeing these belles are great why hasn't anyone built an amp to match them?

and yes i am having a website / browser hassle totally not working as usual i try hosing the cookies& cache

[garymd]

If you want to hear a couple nice sounding amps with Klipsch speakers, take a ride up to Ellicott City and I'll give you an audition. You may decide to keep the Belles afterall.

Please be civil though.

[rplace]

Bob, not really sure what you are saying.

Man, thank response took serious restraint! Hats off to a gentleman!

Dave

Thanks for noticing, Dave. I had a lot of other 'stuff' typed up, but thought better of it. No sense in sinking to the same level.

[bobs2010]

say what you have to say!!

maybe something good will come of it - it's a bbs & unless you are really putting someone else down

spit it out !

i have my nice speakers and was shopping for an amp/preamp

and i haven't found any thing new and decent

hasn't anything good happened it amps in the last 10-15 years?

[J M O N]

hasn't anything good happened it amps in the last 10-15 years?

Yes, but if you're just comparing specs, youre not going to find them. Lots of good stuff out there...

[garymd]

Lots of great stuff has happened (new amp/preamp-wise) just in the last couple of years. $800 is tough though. You might be better off trying some rebuilt vintage gear. I agree that most new HT receivers are crap for music although there are some high-priced exceptions. My rebuilt Scott 299b blows away just about anything in the under-$800 price range. One of our forum members is a genious when it comes to bringing these units back to life. He makes them sound MUCH better then they ever did new.

I bought mine off of ebay for about $300 and spent another $340 having it rebuilt to the hilt. You'd be just amazed to hear how great it sounds with Klipsch. Don't give up on the Belles.

BTW - What are you planning to replace them with?

[boomac]

My NosValves rebuilt Scott 299 is sweet and I figure one would have to spend 3X, (maybe more) the money to equal the performance with Klipsch Speakers. $320 on eBay and about $300 for the rebuild inc. shipping. I use it with Forte IIs now but have had it in with Herseys and Cornwalls. Give one a try and if you're less than amazed, shoot me an e-mail and I'll consider coming east and takin' the Belles off your hands.

[bobs2010]

thanks for the positive comments guys

so far i have had recommendations for:

jolidia 102 & 202 all tube integrated amp made in china (a lotta stuff we buy made in china seems to go to the garbage in 6 months) $600 & $850 doesn't have bass or treble adjustment

jolida 1501a tube pre with ss amp $1100 made in china -see above-no tone controls again

arcam A-80 used $800 good reputation but uk brand made in china -seems i bought some NAD amps uk brand made in china-not a good match for quality audio not sure i want to go there again

there was a pair of mcintosh 30's for sale last friday for $1495 on audiolog but by monday the price had been raised to $2000+ then you have to rebuild em replace some resistors you have to replace the capacitors and retube and pray the 40 year old transformers are still good then i have to buy a pre/amp this is more the price of the speakers

AudioSource Amp 100 $150 Pre-One/A $150 made in china < actually came recommended > i guess if it's trash i'll be $500 less pissed when it goes to the trash

the belles have been with out an amp about 4 years now = new house /15 yr 5% mortgage &paying down the bills comes before tunes

the 2 channel audio marketplace seems to have changed and the choices are fewer

[J.4knee]

OK well I am afraid you are applying 15 year old costing standards to new equipt. 10 - 15 years ago you could get a decent car for under $10K now you need to spend double that. Audio has gone the same way. You seem to want $5K+ sound but limit yourself to $800. Sorry but that math does not work. If the refurb/used market is not attractive you I believe you are in a bit of a quandary with no options. Sorry!

[thebes]

Welcome to the forum.

Having gone through it myself I can readily appreciate the monetary

retraints you are facing. The question is how do you take a high

class lady out for the evening on a Macdonald's budget? Answer

you get very creative.

You can try several routes, used and reconditioned tubegear has already

been mentioned, and your memories aside some of this stuff when gone

through by a first class technician with make those Belles truly sing

and it's within your price point.

You can also try used SS. Many here feel very favorably towards

the HK 700 series with Klipsch which go for chump change on Ebay,

and I myself like the sound of the old Marantz 2000 series for a few

bucks more.

You could also go for modern mid-fi SS multi-sound receiver. The

Denon's are a good value and while not top-end sound very good.

But here's what I would suggest, grab up one of the HK's or Marantz's

mentioned above and replace that decrepid cd player with a low-end

Toshiba or Denon dvd player. Yu'll be suprised how good the sound is

from these newer dvd player compared to what you have. We're only

talking $300 to $400 tops for both pieces. If you don't like what

you are hearing after some burn-in time, you can get rid of the

receiver for what you paid for it and keep the dvd player for watching

movies. And, of course, you can always sell the Belles.

The thing of it is for a rather small outlay you can either rediscover

the joy of listening to good music again, and begin a slow upgrade path

as funds become available or simply decide it isn't worth

it. This way, however, you will not have second thoughts down the

road over weather or not you should have kept the Belles.

[LarryC]

$600 & $850 doesn't have bass or treble adjustment...-see above-no tone controls again

Those like myself who don't have tone controls don't miss them a bit, and I suggest you drop that as a priority for modern and high-line equipment.

The recommendations for a fixed-up Scott are excellent and fit your budget nicely. Those have tone and loudness controls, which do seem necessary in such vintage equipment.

[bobs2010]

what amp and speakers do you have?

as for the vintage amps i had them in the early 60's they were ok but nothing better in the last 40 years??? considering the advances in electronics in the last 10-20 years i can't imagine someone hasn't made a better amp

[bobs2010]

hey thebes thanks for the post

very thoughtful !! seems you understand what i'm thinking

i'm looking for something recent and decent new stuff doesn't seem to have the output transformers but at least the newer stuff isn't 40 years old if i want an old pain in the butt i'll go out to the garage work on my 64 sl

i don't know how many belles, lascalas and khorns are out there but i can't believe someone hasn't built an amp that perfectly matches the big klipsch speakers

[LarryC]

I have K-horns and a Joule Electra preamp now, a CAT (Convergent Audio Technology) preamp for 10 years before that and a couple of Audio Research pres before that, all without tone controls. I had Mark Levinson SS Class A monoblocs for 20 years until I got a pair of JE tube monoblocs a couple of years ago.

I'm really more summarizing many, many statements of satisfaction on the forum about Scott integrateds, than my own experience with them. I've heard a Scott on Cornwalls at another forum member's house, and think it sounds great -- rich, musical, very nicely detailed. He uses his loudness control and a bit of TC touch-up as I recall. On the other hand, his downstairs system uses a Blueberry, and he's never expressed disappointment at not having tone controls. I think the sound is too good to screw up by fiddling with them anyway.

True, doing without tone controls is probably an individual acquired taste. Thing is, tone controls for me NEVER made exactly the adjustment I thought I needed -- their operation was too broad or too narrow, or too high-pitched or too low-pitched, etc. Anyway, YMMV and these are all just suggestions.

Larry

[JohnWhite]

hey thebes thanks for the post

very thoughtful !! seems you understand what i'm thinking

i'm looking for something recent and decent new stuff doesn't seem to have the output transformers but at least the newer stuff isn't 40 years old if i want an old pain in the butt i'll go out to the garage work on my 64 sl

i don't know how many belles, lascalas and khorns are out there but i can't believe someone hasn't built an amp that perfectly matches the big klipsch speakers

Lots of belles, lascalas, khorns and cornwalls out here! but in the advances of sound systems SS became more mainstream and speaker systems changed because of it. IMO nobody has built an amp that matches the big klipsch speakers lately because they were all built 40 years ago! With that said you could look into a small zen amp by decware, or the mini might mono amps by Quicksilver. Spend some time browsing audiogon and see whats out there.

John

[cjgeraci]

Bob:

I agree with Larry. There are a number of us that do not miss tone controls with modern tube stuff. In my opinion, the pre/pro has more of an effect on your sound than the amp so I would focus more on modern pre/pro designs as opposed to modern amp designs. (I know you are adverse to vintage, rebuilt tube amps, but I am a fan).

Obviously, with an integrated unit (receivers, Scott, etc.), you have both the pre/pro and amp inside one unit. But, there are modern tube pre/pros, paired up with an expensive modern solid state amp - that would give you a vast improvement for your Belles. As some others have suggested, you should start with a Juicy Music tube pre/pro (new), and you would be 3/4 of the way there.

Close to your budget, I would get a Juicy Music Merlin tube pre/pro (new) for $800 and add a little digital Sonic Impact or Teac amp - $100-$150. You would be very surprised as I have been by how the little digital chip amps sound - when paired up to the right preamp.

If I was doing something similar, I would personally pair up a Merlin with a rebuilt Dynaco Stereo 70 tube amp, but you expressed a preference for wanting to go with a new amp. That being said, a little digital chip amp would get you much better sound than you have had previously.

Additionally, depending on the year of your Belles, they may also benefit from a crossover rebuild, which if you are getting done in the forum (freshening caps as opposed to an upgraded design), would cost you very little.

I own three Belles. I also own a Juicy Music Peach tube preamp with no tone controls. I have run multiple different amps with my Belles, solid state and tube. Currently, a Marantz 8B drives my mains (bi amped with a solid state pro amp), and a little 'ol Teac A700P digital amp powers my center Belle. I also own (and use) a number of other amps, including a rebuilt Dynaco Stereo 70.

Carl.

[thebes]

You're getting lots of good advice here Bob.

Actually two members here with more than extensive experience with the

Heritage line have sperately designed within the last two years modern

killer amps and pres which maximize the experience of listening to

Klipsch.

Problem is they are out of your price range (although the Merlin from

Juicy Music combined with the Teac is an interesting thought).

Yup they don't have tone controls, and although I almost never use it,

it's nice to know they are there. Worse comes to worse you could plug a

modern EQ in the $250 range that would give you much more control over

the sound and room considerations that any tone controls.

You have to keep in mind most reaonably priced stuff out there these

days is engineered for HomeTheater. It's where the public

interest and sales are.

That leaves folks whose only interest in a quality stereo setup with

fewer choices at a higher price range. Stereo is a niche market

these days.

Also, let me disabuse you of the notion that properly restored older

tube gear is finicky and prone to breakdown. Not so, anything

built by Nosvalves, for example, will last for years and years. Also

keep in mind that much of this stuff was designed by this nation's best

electrical geniuses at a time when stereo was the only way to listen to

music . Refurbed tube gear with quality modern-producton

components and a little tweaking bests what came out of the factory

back then.

Let's think of it another way. In 1964 when your car was built

the minimum wage was either $.85 or $1.25 (can't remember which).

Today's it about five times that. A Fisher 500C (mid-fi) back in

that time period sold for $300, that's about $1500 today.

So you can either squeeze a little equity out of that Fredricksburg

house that has doubled in value in the last four yers, or take a more

modest approach and pursue some of the more modest suggestions that

have been outlined.

Life's like that, choices and tradeoffs.

In any event we stand ready to help.

[garymd]

what amp and speakers do you have?

as for the vintage amps i had them in the early 60's they were ok but nothing better in the last 40 years??? considering the advances in electronics in the last 10-20 years i can't imagine someone hasn't made a better amp

Bob,

We're not talking stock Scott's here. What can be done to an old Scott would amaze you. They can sound SO much better than stock with the right rebuild and will blow the Jolidas out of the water!

[meagain]

Gary - have you actually heard the Jolidas and compared them to your scott, etc?

[DoubleJ]

Bob:

You have been given great advice thus far and can't really add much more than what has been already mentioned. But I can add the following:

I own Belles, Cornwalls, and also K-horns and have powered them all, at sometime, with the following:

-Dynaco ST 70..Slightly modded but closer to stock. I used my Denon 3801 as a preamp for 2 channel and I heard things that I never heard before (good things, that is) with just running them through the 3801. Music was much more tolerable and I found my self listening to music more often and also longer. The ST 70 was my first experience with a tube amp. Cost of the ST-70...$450.00.

This was the beginning of the dreaded "Upgradeitis". I thought that if my 2 Channel system sounded this good with a weak pre-amp (3801) a tube Pre-amp would be the cats meow. Thus, the Peach was introduced incorporated into the mix. Just as as I expected...The sound was incredible. This is the sound I was always striving for and things were great. Cost of the Peach..$999.00.

I ran this set up with my K-Horns and my Cornwalls.

In the mean time, I aquired a pair of Belles and needed a quick and easy-cheap fix to power these beauties so I bought a cheap Teac A-L700p chip amp to mate with the Peach to drive the Belles. Granted the sound wasn't as great as the ST-70/Peach combo but was very tolerable for the price. Cost of the TEac Amp $89.00

SInce my 2 rigs are in different rooms, I got sick of lugging the Peach back and forth and so I needed something else to power my Belles. A 2nd Peach or Blueberry would have been the ticket, but there was no way I could afford it. This prompted me to find a good clean-functional integrated Tube amp.

Luck would have it that a fellow forum member had a Scott 299c for sale that had been modified/refreshend by Craig @ NosValves. It was just as I expected..Great tube sound and me and the Belles were/are in heavenly bliss. Cost of the Scott 299c..Approx $450.00.

So, Bob, all I can do is give more input on what great experiences I had with different power sources driving the Belles. Some options are in your set price range and some are not.

I'm in no way saying that you are wrong in your reasoning but just want to make sure you explore all your options before selling the Belles.

SInce everything is totally subjective, you may find it very useful and entertaining to take GaryMD offer to audtion his set-up. I think you'll be impressed.

Good Luck Bob on what ever you decide to do.

JJ

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