High End Audio Sucks

[edwinr]

Ah, you're making me blush. I'm just glad to have been able to help out thousands of people.

You're a gracious and humble man, Mr. Parrot... []

Congratulations, turntable3 (Jack) on your new La Scalas. In Australia we're only offered the overseas model being the Mk1 La Scalas. Not that I mind because I prefer the clean looks of the original La Scala anyway.

[turntable3]

Klipsch is neither low end nor high end it is the RIGHT END to finalize a long time search for the speaker that fits .

I' ll get the MK1 La Scalas soon.

Jack

[SilverSport]

...very well put!...Danke!

[www.records]

Even though I don't currently own Klipsch, I feel we have alot in common with our speakers. I currently own Altec 604 duplex.

It seems most people who are into audio don't give Klipsch or Altec much respect. They are looked upon as colored and not being accurate, therefore not worthy of sounding good. Well, I would bet our speakers sound a whole lot better than most of what is being peddled in audio salons. I know the speakers I have had the chance to listen to in these salons, don't do much for me. And the price tags are rediculously high. These big Altecs (and I am sure your big Klipsch) produce realistic music than most of what is being offered.

The bottom line is I don't care what other people think about my system. I am very happy where I am and have no need to chase anyone in audio. And I bet if some of those audio snobs would hear our systems and were honest with themselves, they would agree. But I can see how that might be difficult for someone who had spent 10X the money for audio bling.

Love the one your with.

Steve

[maxg]

What is high end audio? Is there a price bracket which once you go over it you are in High end? Is it determined by the demands of your speaker? The watts of your amp?

I think not.

From what I have read here you guys are basically agreeing that you like the Klipsch sound better than other makes. This is not an enormous surprise on a Klipsch forum - and yes - it does carry certain advantages in the amp requirements.

Whilst I would agree that an RF3 is probably not a high end speaker I am not at all sure I would agree that a KHorn is not, nor a Belle and possibly not even a Cornwall.

They may be available cheaply (very much so, second hand) but that does not make it anything other than high end in my book.

A friend of mine picked up a pair of Electrostatic speakers (name escapes me for a moment) a few years back that were the height of high end in the late 70's / early 80's (and about 20,000 euros back then). They were out of fashion when he bought them - so he got them for 3000 euros. Not cheap - but not a stratospheric price either. High end? He has some big amps with them (second hand again) for not that much bling(?) All in all his system is not much more expensive than some of the KHorn systems on here - but it is definitely high end as far as he is concerned.

Lets look in another direction - are Mark's pre-amps high end? How about his new amps or Craig's VRD amps? I would say yes to all of those (whatever the sensitivities of the manufacturers). These are not mass market, built to a budget products - they are high end products designed from the ground up to help you get the most out of your high end (Klipsch) speakers.

What we see here is a sort of inverse snobbery. Look at the fools who spent so much more money that I did on their lesser sound than mine (not, of course, necessarily in the owner's opinion - nor often encumbered with anything as inconvenient as knowledge).

It is a common theme in audio - people who spent less than me are cheap and people who spent more than me are fools.

Now all of this is not to say that there are some people who have spent ludicrous amounts of money for what, at best, is average sound. Money is no substitute for the synergy Mark mentioned, but, where you have budget AND synergy you really can get something quite special. Over the last few weeks I have listened to a number of "high end" systems. Not all were great IMO but a couple were simply sublime. Worth the money? You would have to ask the owners.

[kaiser SET say]

Once again Max you have wisely spoken the truth[]

I often wonder what some of the naysayer's of high end think of my system but in the end I really don't care because it's my money (call me a fool if you will but all my gears were bought well below retail and what I feel is still a reasonable price)!

When you look at a K-Horn, Blueberry, VRD's, Maxxed NT'Joeb and a fine analog rig are we not talking 7 grand plus! Counselors, I rest my case[]

I'm not uneasy with what I own and no one esle should be uneasy with whatever they think I may have paid[:|]

Get what you like

Get what you can afford

Get into the music.......................................and share with your friends[]

[Speedball]

That is one of the real joys of the Klipsch forum, in my experience, and with Klipsch in general. One can put together a VERY good sounding system and have a VERY good time doing it. With some care, patience, and good advice from kind and knowlegeable folks on the forum the results can pleasing.

Bingo.....!

[33klfan]

Very interesting read. For me, i haven't heard many systems, but a few, and i know well with my system if something sounds right or doesn't without comparing too much. I'm sure there is better, but it's what you can afford and hopefully you get a well matched system. Somehow, i didn't spend much time or money at all for buying what's in my two channel system now, and i can't complain no matter what i listen to. The sf-1's are nothing special yet i swear they are. They surprise me all the time with how the music is dispersed. I swear it's possible to just drive yourself crazy with all of the brands out there and trying to figure which is better. I am quite satisfied with my system now, and it really hasn't taken too much stress at all to match it up.

[edwinr]

I suppose a distinction needs to be made between 'High End' and "Hi-Fi".

High End = High Priced but not necessarily high fidelity.

Hi-Fi = high fidelity but not necessarily high priced.

[A]

[maxg]

I suppose a distinction needs to be made between 'High End' and "Hi-Fi".

High End = High Priced but not necessarily high fidelity.

Hi-Fi = high fidelity but not necessarily high priced.

[A]

Sorry Ed - but I really would not agree with that definition at all. If that is the subject of the discussion then the discussion is meaningless. We like good sounding inexpensive systems better than poor sounding expensive ones is hardly a giant leap.

For me I think of HIFI as mass market offerings and Hi-End as lower volume offerings where the purveyor (successfully or otherwise) is striving to provide the best possible sonic return (according to their definition) with less regard to the final price.

This distinction is, of course, not neccessarily pricing based. A High-End item may actually cost little more than a HiFi one as purchasing is often directly from the manufacturer bypassing the distribution chain and at times on the basis of a lower mark up anyway than a major manufacturer might be using.

Just MHO of course....

[oldbuckster]

K-horns, La scala's, Belles, Cornwalls, aren't those, when bought new sort-a High End? How much for new? Pretty pricey used aren't they? My new H2's listed for what $1,300. per pair, not cheap eh? Where do you draw the line, at what price, at what level does it end? HIFI, when it started, was not stereo,but at that time,was high end. To me Klipsch is a high end product, and worth every penny, but other people have a different opinion on speakers, and this is good too. It's what makes the BUYER happy that counts, not what a bunch of people on a forum think.

Let's listen to the MUSIC, and enjoy it, not worry about what equipment other people buy.Really, if it's not your money, why do you care? It's the MUSIC not the Equipment, take a break!

[Colin]

Yes, it is true.

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High-end audio sells its equipment with a veneer of mysticism that ignorance and lack of information allows. This is because speaker manufacturers dont publish their frequency response and impedance curves. Otherwise tweaking audiophiles could see for themselves that a low or sharp angle impedance curve for a speaker requires amplifiers with solid control. Same for the amplifiers. They should publish their specs too. Yet amplifier manufacturers barely agree on such cryptic measures of performance that the few odd specs, which they do provide, are almost meaningless for determining how their product sounds or performs with loudspeakers. Discerning component sound from the specs is like casting Druid stones and reading them.

Enter big ole horns. Although challenged by an equal number of problems as conventional speakers, such as coloration, horns bring to the field ridiculously low distortion, amazing efficiency and incredible dynamics. Coupled to the most powerful super-computer on the planet, these qualities never wear out your ears.

Now, the conventional rules do not apply. Everything the store says about conventional loudspeakers doesnt apply to their situation. Re-education is required. Big ole horn lovers congregate in far-flung forums for refresher courses in Electronics 101.

This means the power source for these babies, and indeed the entire front-end, require an entirely different style of components to get maximum performance out of them. Not necessary less expensive equipment though. While loudspeakers are the only bargain in audio (you get the most bang for your buck); amplifiers are the sinkhole of stereo (you can get a lot of chintz for your first thousand if you are not careful). Except for notable exceptions, above a thousand you must spend. Anything less is the realm of big-box mass-market retailers.

What a balanced, well-designed horn system can do for a quarter, a third, nay even a tenth, of the cost however, easily rivals the very best money-is-no-object dream system. It can put the singer so close to your heart, you want to ask her out for dinner. It can make you push the furniture back to allow more room for the band. It can bring the police to your party! Andgiven the right song and the right beverage, it can lift your soul to a nirvanic plane, plummet your brainwaves to an Alpha state and slowly, gently, persistently, tug and nudge and pull the corners of your mouth into a big, wide, shit-eating grin.

[]

[Daddy Dee]

What a balanced, well-designed horn

system can do for a quarter, a third, nay even a tenth, of the cost

however, easily rivals the very best money-is-no-object dream system.

It can put the singer so close to your heart, you want to ask her out

for dinner. It can make you push back the furniture to allow more room

for the band. It can bring the police to your party! And, given the

right song and the right beverage, it can lift your soul to a

nirvanic plane, plummet your brainwaves to an Alpha state and slowly,

gently, persistently, tug and nudge and pull the corners of your mouth

into a big, wide, ***-eating grin.

Colin,

You have said this very well. I think some of the energy behind this discussion comes from defensive attitudes toward a few high end snobs attacking the likes of the system in which you have described.

Being from Arkansas, I've gotten accustomed to folks who have this kind of attitude about southerners or Arkies in general.

Tweaking Klipsch Heritage speakers and the amps that make them sound good reminds me of the shade tree mechanic who has an old car that runs great and is more dependable than lots of high dollar new ones.

The source of satisfaction is also different. It is not only the sound, but the pleasant rewards of patient (or white knuckled as the case may be) waiting for a good deal on Khorns and investing time in the process of refurb and tweaking... ahhh, now that's my idea of a good time.

High end folks can have a system that sounds just as good, sometimes even better. They do have the bucks to get into a high end system and don't need (or want) to spend time making it happen. They don't have to do that and more power to them. If they are happy with their sound that's great and I hope they enjoy the music, too.

But there's at least one sense of satisfaction that they are unlikely to experience.

[seti]

Being from Arkansas, I've gotten accustomed to folks who have this kind of attitude about southerners or Arkies in general.

Thats ok because we can use that to lure them into a false sense of security.....

Ahhhh Shucks[:$]

[]

[IndyKlipschFan]

Some of the reading and posting in this post topic is painful. Mainly because (now 44 years on this planet) some things are very, very painfully true.

I think you CAN re live your childhood, or even re invent one you thought you deserved but only to a point. The problem is, in a way, your still not allowed to go back and be youthful as you were at that time. Life goes on, and your supposed to enjoy the journey and live in the now.

Some people do it with things I guess, a new car, a better stereo, bigger house, new GF or wife... LOL. Some of these are "things," some of these we pretend to make us feel better I guess. Every woman wants a diamond ring, usually, as a promise made when they get married. Most men try and find a great ring suitable that they can afford, and she may like, but the thing is... It is what the ring "represents" that is more important than the carat size, cut, and clarity too.

Many of us have bought, built , and put together our dream systems. Some of us are happy with this and that, other times we struggle with the not so much keeping up with the Joneses but is it what we dreamed about too all along? And for some a sense of pride sure we build it for ourselves.... But we also want others to enjoy it too. WITH US!

There is a Song by Garth Brooks called "Unanswered Prayers." It is funny to me, because that song was very true at my 10th and 25th HS reunions. I also realized, painfully realized, I guess in a way too while we have memories that are so vivid we seem to remember them like yesterday or certainly in a not too distant past. The thing is they are long long time ago events. Sometimes not even remembered by anyone else but you. For some, HS was their crown athletically, socially or whatever. Some went on to go on to college or whatever at far away states, or countries.

The fact is, we all changed. Some drastically so. Yes, some popular skinny people turned out to be bitter and fat an lazy too. Some wall flower became beautiful with longer hair better body and on the inside on this night was a 10, when she was a 4, at best, in HS. I was one of the lucky few. My athletic career was over between 8th and 9th grade. I cheered on my friends at events got more into music and found inturmurals just as much fun with less pressure sports wise. (Indiana is basketball crazy always will be time to find hoops to play in a church league or pick up games. Although again at 44.. been about 3-4 years since I have done that weekly.)

I guess you can outspend yourself to the nth degree on high end audio, but what does it really buy you? As some have stated, you need to plan each purchase, too, to match up with eachother as well. After you get it all together, are you any less or more happy than you thought? That's the one hard one to answer. Especially if your truthful with yourself. It is not a would of, could of, should of, thing...... you did it.. Now that you have it, now what?

I guess it is not the biggest sparkling diamond that is key here.. But rather the diamond that you do have, and what that represents to you too. People will see how YOU enjoy your system more than what their opinion counts, too, how YOU feel about the whole thing IS the key! Afterall, it is your life. Your choices, and your responsibility too.

[stan krajewski]

Believe it or not, there are people somewhere in this world who own "High End" equipment that blows away what we have. I know that's hard to deal with but it's a fact.

Trying to discredit "high end" audio is not going to make your system sound any better. The emphasis should be on sharing info and tips on how to make our systems sound better.

Sorry, but this just sounds like sour grapes.

[oldbuckster]

We all should be thankful for what we have Low end, Middle end, or High end, if we were Deaf, none of this would matter, would it?

[ottscay]

I just like listening to music... []