Bass horn ideas again. A possible build. Need criticism.

[seti]

So what is this 80's funk stuff? There is a genre of music I've been hunting down for the last 4 or 5 years now that I don't have a clue what it might be called. Every once in a while I'll hear it, but I can never find anyone to provide me with a name that yields any hits online. I wonder if perhaps this old man music might be what I'm looking for. Anyone care to provide a demo or two?

Go back to the 70's and start with Parliament Funkadelic, George Clinton, the P.Funk All-Stars, Bootsy Collins. Then watch the PBS documentary One Nation Under A Groove. This documentary is funk history 101 and it is absolutley amazing find it and watch it!

http://www.pbs.org/independentlens/parliamentfunkadelic/

This is a small list of bands aka rip off artist that have sampled George Clintons bands.

http://www.duke.edu/~tmc/motherpage/list-samples.html

[seti]

So what is this 80's funk stuff? There is a genre of music I've been hunting down for the last 4 or 5 years now that I don't have a clue what it might be called. Every once in a while I'll hear it, but I can never find anyone to provide me with a name that yields any hits online. I wonder if perhaps this old man music might be what I'm looking for. Anyone care to provide a demo or two?

Go back to the 70's and start with Parliament Funkadelic, George Clinton, the P.Funk All-Stars, Bootsy Collins. Then watch the PBS documentary One Nation Under A Groove. This documentary is funk history 101 and it is absolutley amazing find it and watch it!

http://www.pbs.org/independentlens/parliamentfunkadelic/

This is a small list of bands aka rip off artist that have sampled George Clintons bands.

http://www.duke.edu/~tmc/motherpage/list-samples.html

[jwc]

Terry, Thanks for the kind words.

Mike, I have a ridiculous amount of Funk from the 80's. The artists that Seti mentioned are some of the those that probably got it started. They are from the late 70's.

My favorites are from the 80-85 era.....very funky. After that....all the funk bands faded. Terrible. 90's....Producers in that industry became more prominent than actual talent or musicians. Ever noticed that there aren't any Black bands anymore. Seriously. Alycia Keys may play the Piano...that's about it. Gone forever.

Here was the listening position of the Jub Clones and the dbb's.

[jwc]

For those who are interested, I RTA'ed the K31's in parallel with different 1st order low pass filters.

Used Inductors from 1.25mHy to about 6.5mHy. One inductor for both woofers in parallel.

With a 1.25 mHy, the frequency starts to roll off at >900Hz.

With a 1.6 mHy, the frequency starts to roll off at 750-850Hz.

With a 2.0 mHy, the frequency starts to roll off at 600Hz.

With a 2.5 mHy, the frequency starts to roll off at 475-500Hz.

With a 4.0 mHy, the frequency starts to roll off at 275-325Hz.

With a 6.5 mHy, the frequency starts to roll off at 200-225Hz.

make sense?

jc

[IB Slammin]

I said that I would post a conclusion, and wish that I had not because I have no "black and white" opinion. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

When I joined this forum, in my mind, audio had no hi-fidelity. Sound had fidelity or it didn't. Personal preference had nothing to do with it. Over time my little mind was forced to open a bit.

Most know that I like LF Impact with clean mids and top . (Am trying not to use Slam, Punch, or Thwack) Everything I listened to last weekend had those things. Some, more than others, and at different frequencies, but overall, outstanding clean sound for all.

I read about forum members having multi-systems. For me that is the big two channel LR system, a couple of Heresys powered by an old Pioneer receiver over the bedroom TV, and two more in my home office. Here comes the tuning oration.

Does all music sound good on my Alcorns? No. Do I play music on my Alcorns that doesnt sound good? No. Do we treat (tune) our rooms to accommodate our systems? Do we play great music that doesnt sound good, just for the sake of music? I dont. That is what my car is for.

We tune to our liking. Run in this preamp, remove that CDP, and change the tweeters or mid drivers. Active systems, bi-amp, tri-amp, help us even more to tune systems to our liking.

JC & I played the same reference cuts on all three speaker systems. Same amps, and same source speaker-wise for practical purposes.

I wanted to walk away from this opportune and fairly clinical A/B & C critical listening session and say this one is best. But I can not.

The Cornscalas were delightful in the wee hours.

The Jub-Cs did things in accuracy that the dbbs were lacking in. The dbbs had impact in places where the Jub Clones seemed to back away from. To my ear, the dbbs went much deeper, just not as accurate as the Jub-Cs at cut-off. But make no mistake, the dbb bottom got really tight as it went down below the Jub-Cs. Again, that was to my ear.

Back to multi-systems. Now I understand. Would I choose one over the other? I just couldnt do it. IMHO, one (Jub-C bin/ dbb bin) is not better than the other, just different.

Let the flames ignite.

Tc

[DrWho]

Thanks for all the funk info....somehow I have a hard time seeing JC groovin to this music [8-|]

This is actually very close to what I was looking for...but the stuff I remember was a bit sexier and smoother sounding. Perhaps even a bit slower. The most vivid memory I have is when I was living in Grand Rapids, MI and some dude pulled up in a big van with a huge sound system and started seranading his woman across the street for her birthday...Nobody ever knows what I'm talking about, but then again everyone I talk to listens to modern new age crazy crap []

Regardless, I definetly gotta get me more of this funk stuff...I could see it being great for parties.

[jwc]

Mike,

Do you have an FTP site or something I can upload to?

I really have a ridiculous amount of this stuff. You would have heard of maybe 20% of it. Terry and I played a good bit of it in the wee hours of the night and we just touched the surface. The more ridiculous part of it is that I have most of it on LP or "45" in great condition.

There is really several different varieties. In the early 80's, the bands were still around but the synthesizer became more dominant. Most of the bands that existed at that point were left over from the late 70's and had some good stuff...like cameo for example. Many People know of "Word Up". Cameo at this point went from the original 11 band members to a 3 man group basically using synthesizers as you hear in "WordUp". Now there stuff in the late 70's and around 1980 was really funky. Had all the horns and everything. Had all those dudes in the backgroung going "oowwwe" and "baby!" in the really high voices. Kinda sounds silly to some who aren't used to that stuff. When Cameo was really good, they were on a record label called "Chocolate City". They were awesome back then.

The funk that spawned in the 80's was synthesizer mostly and then there was the club funk or "acid" funk that would be played in big clubs. I have alot of "12" inch records of this. I was a "wanna be" DJ at that point. This also the spawning of breakdancing which in someway has music geared towards it as well....such as "Rock it" by Herbie Hancock. Remember that one?

Everyone knows of say New Kids on the Block and other hearthrob groups. Another one was New Edition. A lot of these were produced by Maurice Starr. Well this guy is a true genius in Hollywood. I have some stuff by he and his brother, Michael Jonzun, that is the funkiest stuff available. One classic is called "Pack Jam" and "Space Cowboy". Well anyway....I have a lot of stuff that would take a serouls amount of time and beer to get through it all.

jc

[jwc]

I have been listening more to the Jub Clones over the last several days. Remember one has the K31's in them and the other has the Pioneer 51F's.

There is very little sonic difference between these woofers in the bass bins. One thing I forgot to do was to offer switching sides of the bass bins during Terry and my audition. The reason i meant to offer that is becasue my wife and i discovered a while ago the one corner of my room has always had a small advantage in bass sound compared to the other.

I remembered this when I started listening to the 51F's again in mono. They don't sound as good in the other corner vs the original corner I originally listened to them.

So my conclusion ogf the woofers right now is that the Pioneer 51F is a great alternative to the K31's. You would be hard pressed to notice much difference. The SPL is the same. Can't tell a difference there either.

Bob Crites sent me the T/S parameters of the K31's he has and they are very very close to the Pioneer 51F.

So right now...I am very pleased with the Jub sound in spite of the fact I don't have the correct network in them. I am still puzzled about their output as far as SPL goes. Even if my bass bin has a millimeter difference here or there vs the real jub....the total SPL should be the same. Now I haven't made a measurement or anything but I have to attenuate my JBL tweeter and Altec 902 about -3dB more than I do when I have my dbb's going.

I still have the same conclusion as far as bass "sound" goes. The synthesized bass sounds or bass guitar heavy tracks sound a little better on the dbb's. Drum kicks or hard beats do better on the jub. If an audiophile snob gets off character and say throws in some Brittany Spears or Lil' jon, the dbb's are gonna win out in my vote. The network I have really isn't exactly right with the dbb either. The dbb beats out the jub in SPL and low end. I don't know how to describe it but the jub has good "voice". However, it is playing out to greater than 1000HZ

jc

[D-MAN]

SPL? 12" drivers. 'nuff said.

But the dbb's is an unfair comparison, too. Now imagine the dbb's with a bass horn on them - well, maybe later...

But seriously, the real point I want to make is this:

I've found that you can't really make a comparison with only one speaker at a time, you need to do both of the speakers the same and listen to them at the same time. That's my advice, anyway.

DM

[jwc]

Dana. I have A/B'ed the dbb and the Jubilee one at a time against each other and then played each type in stereo for awhile then switched out. I'm not sure how else to A/B in a home environment.

Yes, dual 15's horn loaded. We will soon see.

[mark1101]

JC,

When this is all over........If you need a place to dump the Jub clones, you know who to call. [] I would like the K-31s.

[bodcaw boy]

even though they are 12's?

roy delgado

[Coytee]

you know who to call.

Would that be "Jube-Busters"??

[<)]

[mark1101]

I have to say that I am VERY happy with the Khorns now. But....I guess I could take a step backwards to 12" woofers again [] after what I heard at Richard's home. I trust JC has built them close enough to the real thing.

But....I'm sure JC will find a use for them after all his hard work.

[seti]

Mark101,

I can assure you it ain't no step backwards.......It ain't the size but how you use it.......

Hey guys, Speaking of funk the best new Christmas album is out by Bootsy Collins!!! It is amazing... It features Buckethead, Charlie Daniels(thats what i said)  and others.

http://www.amazon.com/Christmas-4-Ever-Bootsy-Collins/dp/B000IU3YLO

Funk has got some serious bass try out chocolate city http://www.amazon.com/Christmas-4-Ever-Bootsy-Collins/dp/B000IU3YLO  skip the ballads on this one but it is a great record.

I need to cut down on the coffee i am hyper as a lab rat this morning

[jwc]

"But....I guess I could take a step backwards to 12" woofers again "

When and what were your speakers with 12" woofers? Heresys?

[mark1101]

Guys,

I figured Roy was joking....and so was I. Yes, the only 12" woofers I ever had are in my heresys.

I was just joking about going backwards. But I am serious about ending up with the Jub clone cabinets.....if that opportunity ever presents itself. []

[D-MAN]

Nice to see that Roy is still with us!

JC, you are absolutely correct - there is NO good way to A/B them.

But when both speakers are matched with the same components, etc., the sound changes quite a bit. The particular strengths and weaknesses show up with greater clarity.

For instance, the weakness(es) or strength(s) of one component may interfere with the overall sound, masking the deficiencies, and while it may sound acceptable, when the components are matched, it may not be. I always do my serious "check out" with matched components - I've learned the hard way: "if it's convienient, it's not right!"

heh, heh...

For example, when I checked out the tractix midrange horn as a single only, it sounded astonishingly wonderful. The blend was terrific. I couldn't wait to get the other one setup too. But when I went for two at the same time, it sounded quite horrific. The deficiencies were compounded and revealed with two, where one's deficiencies were evidently "covered" by the non-different setup. This applies across the board. That's my experience.

This is what I mean, never "test" with a single, do the pair or you'll likely be sorry in the end.

DM

[popbumper]

I just spent over an hour in this thread and realize that Dana is right - and I MUST build another SLS bass bin to drive and compare them. This has been MOST entertaining, what a great, great job on these job clones. Makes my projects look miniscule at best.

Chris

[Deang]

I don't think so, you do really nice work.