Moderators Travis In Austin Posted October 13, 2006 Author Moderators Share Posted October 13, 2006 All tubes installed and Jack doing a carefull QC check before the unit goes back into the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Travis In Austin Posted October 13, 2006 Author Moderators Share Posted October 13, 2006 After a major tug of war with Jack I was able to gain control of the BBX and get in on my audiorack. Sounded great, literaly, right out of the box. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audible Nectar Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 Thanks for the install tour! And be sure to tell your wife that these BlueBerries don't need any refrigeration[] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Travis In Austin Posted October 13, 2006 Author Moderators Share Posted October 13, 2006 Travis-- Nice tour there! Thanks for the comments and especially the comparison to the BAT - a very nice piece of equipment indeed. Do I gather you also have a MX110 in the house? Enjoy your BBX & Cream! md I have an MX-110, it is Craig's right now waiting to get a minor tune up. The main caps were replaced about 2 years ago everything brought up to spec. I wanted to Craig to go through it all again, make sure everything was o.k. with the thought of selling it. Then I saw Allan's Jensen oil cap upgrade on his Mac preamp and I got to thinking about possibly doing that. I think the BBX, at least to my ears, and considering they are with VRD's, sounds better then the MX-110. This is an MX-110 that has been gone through and "restored to original." In other words, it was performing at peak performance but did not have any "mods" such as Jensens. I am going to let the BBX burn in for awhile, try and listen to it a whole lot more over the weekend, but my initial impressions right now, with the stock tubes, is it is a little more open then the MX-110 and is much more detailed. The tubes I have in the MX-110 are all Tele's, including the harder to find 6U8's, however, I have not tried the CCH tube in it. I don't really think that having the CCH is going to make up the difference between the two. Again, that is to my ears and only after listening for a few hours of listening to the BBX. Travis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilbert Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 Humenahumenahumena....sure looks sweet! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott0527 Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 Travis-- Nice tour there! Thanks for the comments and especially the comparison to the BAT - a very nice piece of equipment indeed. Do I gather you also have a MX110 in the house? Enjoy your BBX & Cream! md Mark, when and where did you come up with those pretty blue transformer covers? Looks like a custom Blueberry special. By the way, I just took a peak inside mine and noticed the 12AT7's you put in there are CV4024 KQDD/K? Those are Mullards aren't they? Very nice tubes. Maybe the reason I haven't felt the need to roll. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted October 14, 2006 Share Posted October 14, 2006 Travis, I'm going to point Keith to this thread (when I get back to Knoxville) so he can see this. If perchance, you decide to sell your MX-110, he happens to be looking for just that unit (to go with the MC-30's he has, along with his Belles he's putting together for his wife). However, your very side by side comments about the 110/BBX might kick him over to the BBX camp. I've now put you in a quandry! [6] You can pimp the BBX and lose a potential sale, or diss the BBX and gain a sale but tick off half the forum! YA BABY, who luvs ya!! [6] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Travis In Austin Posted October 14, 2006 Author Moderators Share Posted October 14, 2006 Travis, I'm going to point Keith to this thread (when I get back to Knoxville) so he can see this. If perchance, you decide to sell your MX-110, he happens to be looking for just that unit (to go with the MC-30's he has, along with his Belles he's putting together for his wife). However, your very side by side comments about the 110/BBX might kick him over to the BBX camp. I've now put you in a quandry! [6] You can pimp the BBX and lose a potential sale, or diss the BBX and gain a sale but tick off half the forum! YA BABY, who luvs ya!! [6] Coytee, A quandry, me? I'm a lawyer, I am extreamely well versed in speaking out of both sides of my mouth at the same time. [] But the best part about my MX-110 it that it sell's itself. Travis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott0527 Posted October 14, 2006 Share Posted October 14, 2006 Scott-- We always painted the transformer covers. First we used a dark royal blue, then a few months ago we couldn't get that color so we switched to the sky blue you see in Travis unit. I assume your unit with Mullards was built when we were supplying the first Xtremes with NOS tubes. We stopped doing that over a year ago as it was impossibly time consuming to round up good NOS tubes. All current units are shipped with EI Gold 12AT7s, Sovtek 12AX7 and JAN Philips 6922. md Low and behold. Mine ARE dark royal blue. They looked black because it was dark in the room last night. Anyway, yes, I believe my Xtreme was one of the first few Xtremes you made. One sign of a great piece to me is a piece that you DO NOT have to open up and tweak very often. Which is why it's been so long since I've peaked inside. There's been no need. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai2000 Posted October 14, 2006 Share Posted October 14, 2006 Travis, I don't doubt the quality of Mark's preamp for a second, but the more I get to know my MX110, the more I question the use of those so-called NOS tubes. I mean companies like Telefunken stopped producing tubes more than 30 years ago (or so) and I sometimes wonder how many of those NOS tubes are really unused. I mean those companies stopped producing tubes because at the time there seemed to be/was no more (civilian) market for such products, right? Looking at ebay (for example) it seems that large quantities of those tubes were never used since then, well......and that's where I am just wondering how likely that is. Anyway, you wrote that the BBX sounds more open than the MX110. That reminds me quite a bit of the sound difference I experienced when comparing it to my Transcendent Sound GG. At the time I used Telefunken 12AX7 in the line and phono slots. The preamp sounded quite nice and musical, but swapping it for the GG it also showed that the modern preamp simply offered more details. That is until I wentured into a $4.95 Sino tube. Yes, it can be that cheap (and even outside ebay it sells for only around $9.00 a piece). The tube I am talking about is the latest Shuguang 12AX7 (check at the AA for a lot of positive comments). Having read those I thought why not give them a try.....and the very first things I noticed were.......more extension at frequency ends and a lot more details. So either this is because this Chinese tube is excellent or (additionally?) because it's a new/fresh tube and not one of those tired old Teles (which were actually not those that came with the the unit, but a pair with diamond bottom bought from a respectable tube seller). So I don't doubt that the BBX is excellent and might even offer 'more' than your MX110, but I begin to believe that quite a few people might miss what can be achieved with this preamp with proper (read: really fresh tubes).....and in my opinion that might not automatically mean Telefunken tubes! Of course YMMV. Wolfram Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Travis In Austin Posted October 14, 2006 Author Moderators Share Posted October 14, 2006 Travis, So I don't doubt that the BBX is excellent and might even offer 'more' than your MX110, but I begin to believe that quite a few people might miss what can be achieved with this preamp with proper (read: really fresh tubes).....and in my opinion that might not automatically mean Telefunken tubes! Of course YMMV. Wolfram Wolfram, I agree in large part of what you say. The reason I prefer Teles, for the most part, is that they tend to be very quiet tubes. Of course if you want your MX110 to be "original" you need to have Teles since that is what they came with. Travis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garymd Posted October 15, 2006 Share Posted October 15, 2006 Travis, I don't doubt the quality of Mark's preamp for a second, but the more I get to know my MX110, the more I question the use of those so-called NOS tubes. I mean companies like Telefunken stopped producing tubes more than 30 years ago (or so) and I sometimes wonder how many of those NOS tubes are really unused. I mean those companies stopped producing tubes because at the time there seemed to be/was no more (civilian) market for such products, right? Looking at ebay (for example) it seems that large quantities of those tubes were never used since then, well......and that's where I am just wondering how likely that is. Anyway, you wrote that the BBX sounds more open than the MX110. That reminds me quite a bit of the sound difference I experienced when comparing it to my Transcendent Sound GG. At the time I used Telefunken 12AX7 in the line and phono slots. The preamp sounded quite nice and musical, but swapping it for the GG it also showed that the modern preamp simply offered more details. That is until I wentured into a $4.95 Sino tube. Yes, it can be that cheap (and even outside ebay it sells for only around $9.00 a piece). The tube I am talking about is the latest Shuguang 12AX7 (check at the AA for a lot of positive comments). Having read those I thought why not give them a try.....and the very first things I noticed were.......more extension at frequency ends and a lot more details. So either this is because this Chinese tube is excellent or (additionally?) because it's a new/fresh tube and not one of those tired old Teles (which were actually not those that came with the the unit, but a pair with diamond bottom bought from a respectable tube seller). So I don't doubt that the BBX is excellent and might even offer 'more' than your MX110, but I begin to believe that quite a few people might miss what can be achieved with this preamp with proper (read: really fresh tubes).....and in my opinion that might not automatically mean Telefunken tubes! Of course YMMV. Wolfram Everyone is entitled to their opinions and preferences but when I dropped a truly NOS Telefunken (box still sealed) into the phono stage of my BBX, there was no doubt that this 40+ year old tube was WAY better than any other NOS or new tube I'd heard before (to my ears). I tried quite a few too. I agree that many of these tubes just test new and the sellers call them NOS. Probably more than 50% of the NOS market I'd guess which is why I bought 2 more sealed tubes. They weren't cheap but they should last a LONG time now that my BBX runs quiet and I don't keep it on 24/7. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai2000 Posted October 15, 2006 Share Posted October 15, 2006 Gary, I wouldn't question your experience at all.......perhaps I just didn't find the 'right' Telefunken tubes. Be that as it may, I am pretty pleased with the sound I am getting out of my Mc equipment.....and surely that matters most of all []. BTW: I recall having been told that McIntosh used Telefunken tubes in their gear because they were cheaper than other tubea at the time......so even in the old days it all boiled down to cost cutting []. Wolfram Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audible Nectar Posted October 15, 2006 Share Posted October 15, 2006 Much of this is gear specific.....and preferences of the listener. McIntosh was basically GIVEN all of those Telefunken tubes back in the day, because Telefunken wanted Mac to use them.....so it stands to reason that the Mac stuff was "voiced" back in the day for Telefunken tubes. Telefunken 12AX7 (especially the smooth) is NOT the end-all be-all of frequency extremes. This is a tube that has softer bass and is less extended in the treble than many other NOS brands of the day. They work GREAT in the "fat sounding" vintage Mac gear (the "light bass" of the Tele balanced with the "fat" gear balances perfectly - at least, IMO).....and the "golden" midrange still makes it one of the most desireable 12AX7 on the planet. So this tube has it's allure, but many I talk to feel there are better 12AX7 out there. Much will depend on your gear and the music you listen to. On a "total performance" level, I prefer other 12AX7 over Teles. First on my list: AMPEREX. I'm most definitely a "bugle boy", and the most expensive vintages are not required to please my ears. I consider Amperex smalls (12AX7/AU7/AT7) the "universal" small tube - they sound good in most ANY good quality high fidelity gear.....and are a critical part of my "tube stash". But I still consider the Telefunkens critical for my Mac gear usage - there is a synergy here that I really like, especially when I load the Teles into my MC-30s. I've been reading the AA "buzz" on the new Shuguang 12AX7. I am MOST pleased that some seem to be getting it right. Hopefully, they are reliable. MUCH of this is personal preference. Also, while there are differences in these tubes, it's not a "night and day" difference, it's just a difference in "flavor". Overall, I still find NOS brands preferable, but it appears that the current stuff is getting better, which is good news. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Travis In Austin Posted October 15, 2006 Author Moderators Share Posted October 15, 2006 Gary, BTW: I recall having been told that McIntosh used Telefunken tubes in their gear because they were cheaper than other tubea at the time......so even in the old days it all boiled down to cost cutting []. Wolfram I don't know the real answer to this statement, but I seriously doubt it. In 1963 all three US tube manufacturers were going full speed (GE, RCA and Raytheon) plus there were other minor manufacturers going in the US as well. The economies of scale were working at their all time best and so there would be no way a tube manufactured in Germany could be cheaper then one made in the US. Why Mac used Telefunken was not so much the sound as it was the reliability. Mac gave a 3 year warranty on it's products, INCLUDING TUBES. They needed to have very reliable long lasting tubes in order to do this, and for their money, the Teles fit the bill. My only point was that if you wanted the "original" Mac sound on a MX110 you needed to have Teles because that is what they came with. I will ask my tube broker here in Austin (his house looks like a tube musume) whether or not he knows what the situation was with Telefunken and McIntosh. He is quite the tube historian so he may have some actual hard data to report. Travis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai2000 Posted October 15, 2006 Share Posted October 15, 2006 Travis, as indicated above, what I reported is what I have been told so it would indeed be nice to get the true McIntosh-Telefunken story...... Just a thought though: could it be that because of the after war situation US companies got kind of special deals from the former enemy? Wolfram Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garymd Posted October 15, 2006 Share Posted October 15, 2006 FWIW, I prefer the Amperex 12AX7 in my BBX to the Tele and the Tele 12AT7 to anything else in the phono stage. Seems the Tele 12AT7s (ECC......) are more detailed while the Tele 12AX7s are more bass heavy in my experience. YMMV of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilbert Posted October 15, 2006 Share Posted October 15, 2006 FWIW, I prefer the Amperex 12AX7 in my BBX to the Tele Foul words from a Blasphemer!![] Smooth plates baby, it's all in the smooth plates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Travis In Austin Posted October 15, 2006 Author Moderators Share Posted October 15, 2006 Travis, as indicated above, what I reported is what I have been told so it would indeed be nice to get the true McIntosh-Telefunken story...... Just a thought though: could it be that because of the after war situation US companies got kind of special deals from the former enemy? Wolfram Jonathon here in Austin should know, if not, he will know where to find out. I don't think it was a war thing. The US was allowed to take all of the technology from Germany after the war and companies sprung up from this. The one example I am aware of is becasue of my Dad who worked at Ampex. Germany was way ahead of the U.S. in terms of magnetic tape recorders and tape. The U.S. did not have anything working yet, they used wire recorders, but Germany had the Magnetophones which were far superior. Col. John Orr was an intelligence officer with the U.S. Army assigned to develop information during and after the war. When he came back he came with the tape and started OrrRadio Industries in AL whose primary product was magnetic tape. It was marketed under the Irish brand to compete with the Scotch brand marketed by 3M. Orr later sold his company to Ampex which called it the Magnetic Tape Divison which was eventually spun off into Quantegy. The point being I don't think the U.S. really cared about the enconmy of W. Germany at that point in time as evidenced by the Govt. allowing companies to use the german technology freely regardless of the impact. Travis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai2000 Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 Makes sense, Travis. So let's wait for the 'real' reason behind the Telefunken-McIntosh connection. Wolfram Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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