Daddy Dee Posted December 1, 2006 Share Posted December 1, 2006 did find it amusing you got your hand slapped I didn't find that amusing. What I found amusing was "nobody at Klipsch knows how to design filters" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3dzapper Posted December 1, 2006 Share Posted December 1, 2006 Edwin, I read that. I was referring to whatever thread in technical that lead to the jumping ship. I have since learned it was, in fact, deleted. Somebody needs to put together one of those Budweiser odes to "Mr. Superfilter Inductor Inventor." Jeff, Al K has the ability to impress with more knowledge in one post than others can with 2300 odd. Most here have no knowledge of Al's helpfulness in such things as measuring different drivers and designing little tweaks to change crossover characteristics selflessly and without charge. This forum will be much poorer without his presence. Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackpod Posted December 2, 2006 Share Posted December 2, 2006 I just read the thread over at AK. I don't belong to that forum and I don't spend too much time here either. All I can say is WOW. The man attacked me here a few months back for simply having a 1961 advertising statement in my signature. It doesn't matter how smart someone is, no one is perfect. But if you read his posts, he is the only one who knows anything about filters, everything else is a ripoff (his favorite words). During his attack on me he based his whole fact base quoting PWK as gospel, not ever hearing the technology for himself. Yet in his posts in the above mentioned thread he bashes the same. He accused me of ripping people off because I reverse engineered replacement cell kits and sell them on my website, but yet it is ok for him to sell his filters and trachorns. In my opinion, the man has no class. There are many people who enjoy the Klipsch line of speakers, if the design was so poor it would not have survived the test of time. For months after my episode with the guy several of the forum members here continued to make comments about the technology, again with nothing more than Al's (read as god) word. I personally don't see his departure as a loss. I am sure his technical expertise has helped (and wow'd) a lot of people, but his bias against everything but his design has hurt and misguided just as many if not more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjgeraci Posted December 2, 2006 Share Posted December 2, 2006 Rick: Nice post. Yes, Al will be missed. Jackpod: You are certainly entitled to your opinion. "Class" or not, Al helped a number of people in this forum. Yes, Al could come across as arrogant, and he lacked tact at times. Ouch, it sounds like you are still smarting after one of Al's "attacks." As for Al's "stuff," your comments reveal that you have never actually heard any of Al's products. They are that good. Carl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anarchist Posted December 2, 2006 Share Posted December 2, 2006 I would expect Al to be back. 20 minutes at AK and I was sick of the board. When moderators think their job is to govern every aspect of a thread and feel the need to chastise people because the thread goes off-topic, there isn't much room to have a normal discussion. They speak of their "living room" and I realize I would turn down any such invitation even if they offered free beer. Besides, Al's tirade appears to be because he thought they purposely deleted his thread. After the embarassment of throwing an unnecessary tantrum is over, I would hope he returns. I doubt Klipsch would ban him for his rather boisterous outburst and are probably more concerned about his unhappiness and want to resolve it. That said, Klipsch has been in business for a long time and their products don't appear to be suffering from a complete lack of ability related to designing cross-overs. While Al may disagree with their approach, it is Klipsch's perogative whether to listen or not. If Al is right and Klipsch ignores him, their business will suffer and demonstrate their inability to listen to customers and respond with appropriate strategic and tactical thought. At the same time, Al can develop a wonderful business "fixing" their problems. I tend to think Klipsch is concerned with appealing to your typical consumer and not fixated on satisfying the needs of us audio lunatics. They tolerate and appreciate us but they aren't about to go to any large expense to indulge us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Spinner Posted December 2, 2006 Share Posted December 2, 2006 I would expect Al to be back. 20 minutes at AK and I was sick of the board. When moderators think their job is to govern every aspect of a thread and feel the need to chastise people because the thread goes off-topic, there isn't much room to have a normal discussion. They speak of their "living room" and I realize I would turn down any such invitation even if they offered free beer. [Y] [Y] [Y] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Spinner Posted December 2, 2006 Share Posted December 2, 2006 bye the way, Mr Anarchist that ... is a well balanced and reasoned response to the situation ......[] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted December 2, 2006 Share Posted December 2, 2006 I agree. Nice post Robert. Damn, getting chest pains after saying that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audio Flynn Posted December 2, 2006 Share Posted December 2, 2006 bye the way, Mr Anarchist that ... is a well balanced and reasoned response to the situation ......[] Agreed And Anarchist is the 2nd to most difficult forum memeber for me to agree with.[:|] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackpod Posted December 2, 2006 Share Posted December 2, 2006 cjgeraci, Yep you are right, totally uncalled for, out of the blue attack. I think he was upset because I had listed a Mac amp for sale that he had been looking for after he decided to settle for one slightly inferior, unkown to me. You are also correct, I have heard of, but never heard any of his products and to be totally honest at this point I don't want to hear any of his products and will go out of my way to be sure I never do. Simply put what something may look like on a piece of test equipment is only part of the story. He had never heard nor never seen on his test equipment, the equipment of mine he was bashing, calling trash and distortion generators, when I never asked for his godly opinion in the first place. It is fine to boast about one's accomplishments, but to call everything else a ripoff and trash, is not helping those looking for advise, especially with the "high regard" he holds around here. It is like because Al says something, everyone else follows like a bunch of sheep. If you are in a position like that, then you better be fair, There are other alternatives to Al's trachorns and networks, but not to him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBrennan Posted December 2, 2006 Share Posted December 2, 2006 Al was my internet enemy for years, it started after I questioned the ethics of his remora-riding on Klipsch's website to promote his competing goods. In any event most of the posters here saw no problem with that and I caught much heat, almost as much as when I said Heresys sound like Skilsaws. I remember when Al didn't even know that impedence varied with frequency and had no way to test his work. Now he calls Klipsch designers incompetent and on Klipsch's own website no less. On the West Side of Chicago that was called chutzpah. He has learned much since, no doubt of that. Much of it from a Texian I've known for many years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted December 2, 2006 Share Posted December 2, 2006 cjgeraci, Yep you are right, totally uncalled for, out of the blue attack. I think he was upset because I had listed a Mac amp for sale that he had been looking for after he decided to settle for one slightly inferior, unkown to me. You are also correct, I have heard of, but never heard any of his products and to be totally honest at this point I don't want to hear any of his products and will go out of my way to be sure I never do. Simply put what something may look like on a piece of test equipment is only part of the story. He had never heard nor never seen on his test equipment, the equipment of mine he was bashing, calling trash and distortion generators, when I never asked for his godly opinion in the first place. It is fine to boast about one's accomplishments, but to call everything else a ripoff and trash, is not helping those looking for advise, especially with the "high regard" he holds around here. It is like because Al says something, everyone else follows like a bunch of sheep. If you are in a position like that, then you better be fair, There are other alternatives to Al's trachorns and networks, but not to him Funny, your account is not the way I remember it at all. Al K offered his unfavorable opinion on the Ionovac, that you like a lot. You took it personally. Isn't that a pretty fair summary? So now you badmouth him every chance you get. Anyway, it's not good manners to post about Al when he isn't here to respond. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted December 2, 2006 Share Posted December 2, 2006 Al was my internet enemy for years, it started after I questioned the ethics of his remora-riding on Klipsch's website to promote his competing goods. In any event most of the posters here saw no problem with that and I caught much heat, almost as much as when I said Heresys sound like Skilsaws. I remember when Al didn't even know that impedence varied with frequency and had no way to test his work. Now he calls Klipsch designers incompetent and on Klipsch's own website no less. On the West Side of Chicago that was called chutzpah. He has learned much since, no doubt of that. Much of it from a Texian I've known for many years. I would've thought you would have appreciated it when Al disparaged Klipsch. Isn't that your game? It seems like you did that a lot. Yes, I'm almost sure you posted something once about Heresies sounding like Skilsaws (of course this was after praising them to the skies as the best speaker of their size). "Remora-riding" is a great phrase. I'll try to remember that for future use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackpod Posted December 2, 2006 Share Posted December 2, 2006 Mr. Parrott, I don't think so. He started the whole episode by saying to throw them away, they are distortion generators, and then wanted me to send him a pair so he could overdrive them to make his point? I don't think so. Ionovacs in the condition mine are in have a value of about $2000 per pair, I am not a fool to let someone purposely overdrive them to prove a point, even if I do own 6 pairs, plus 2 of the original 20 prototypes. They have their operating range just like any other speaker. Would you be willing to send someone a pair of your speakers so they could run them into distortion to prove their point? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjgeraci Posted December 2, 2006 Share Posted December 2, 2006 Paul: You are right, I remember now. Al did say the "inovacs" were distortion generators [and a bit more...], and Jackpod took personal offense at the "attack" of that particular product. Pod, don't you have a vested interest in these great Ionovacs, e.g. like maybe owning most/all of the stock in the company or something like that? Just curious.... Carl. P.S. Wow, owning 6 pairs at $2000 a pop. You could just put two or three pairs on ebay and be well on your way to a new Jubilee bass bin!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted December 2, 2006 Share Posted December 2, 2006 I always find it interesting when disparaging comments about a product are taken as personal attacks, similar to disparaging comments about a musical group being taken personally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Matthews Posted December 2, 2006 Share Posted December 2, 2006 Al was my internet enemy for years, it started after I questioned the ethics of his remora-riding on Klipsch's website to promote his competing goods. In any event most of the posters here saw no problem with that and I caught much heat, almost as much as when I said Heresys sound like Skilsaws. I remember when Al didn't even know that impedence varied with frequency and had no way to test his work. Now he calls Klipsch designers incompetent and on Klipsch's own website no less. On the West Side of Chicago that was called chutzpah. He has learned much since, no doubt of that. Much of it from a Texian I've known for many years. I would've thought you would have appreciated it when Al disparaged Klipsch. Isn't that your game? It seems like you did that a lot. Yes, I'm almost sure you posted something once about Heresies sounding like Skilsaws (of course this was after praising them to the skies as the best speaker of their size). "Remora-riding" is a great phrase. I'll try to remember that for future use. But that part was on another forum, so it doesn't count. [] Welcome back, Tom. Glad to see someone back aboard who knows how to stir the pot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meagain Posted December 2, 2006 Author Share Posted December 2, 2006 All I know is Al responded a few times to my incessant newbie posts and was most helpful and gracious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Matthews Posted December 2, 2006 Share Posted December 2, 2006 Meagain, I know you love a good cat fight. On one of these threads about Why or Al leaving, BEC posted the link to the thread that caused it all. It was fun reading. Hee-haw!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackpod Posted December 2, 2006 Share Posted December 2, 2006 Dukane stopped manufacture of the Ionovac August of 1961 for 2 main reasons 1) Cost, in 1961 a single Ionovac DUK 5 sold for $79.00 the DUK 10 sold for more. 2) They require regular maintenance, so did not apeal to the general public. Mostly sold to audiophiles. By 1965 Dukane no longer had parts or did service. I am only a collector/researcher of the product. There have been several other companies that made similar units. The Ionofane of England, B&W for quite some time had Ionofanes in their top of the line P2. In the Netherlands the Nazca Ionic tweeter was made for several years. There was also the Ionophone. Today companies like Acapella, Magnat still make ionoc tweeters today. The Acapella sells for somewhere in the vicinity of $12,000.00 per pair. www.ionovac.com is my personal website. An associate/engineer and I reverse engineered the quartz cell and electrode and had a small quantity made which I offer for sale on my website. Don't you take it personal when someone attacks you when that person has no clue what they are talking about? Basing their whole argument on something they read? never heard, never seen. I have had Ionovacs since 1971, listen to them daily and altho I don't have an engineering degree or fancy test equipment, i do have 35 years experience with the technology Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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