smilin Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 LOL! You're a nut. When do you want me to build Smilin networks for the Klipschorns? Soon, I guess, man oh man, I was gonna try bidding on some 1601a's on ebay, they sold a new pair for 1750....gulp. OTOH I just got my NWO 2.5T in, and OMFG, my system sounds better than ANY I have ever heard right now. I can't wait for the smilinwalls, and the smilindeanokhorns....what are we gonna do for a center channel?[H]or should we do joob's all around? heh heh heh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwc Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 -10dB @ 34Hz Lascala land......................maybe I should get some Hey Craig Roy clarified in a past thread that the commercial spec sheet reflects the loading in a theater enviroment were it isn't corner loaded. The -3db as well as -10db is lower when corner loaded. mike tn So what is the low end spec in a corner. I thought in the past thread with the curves that the jub wasn't in the corner and it dropped off way before 35Hz. I was assuming that the curve we see comparing the Khorn and the jub bass bin was what the response was in a corner. Is that not right? jc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Amy Posted February 23, 2007 Moderators Share Posted February 23, 2007 http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/hug/messages/88452.html Roy! Please make sure there's a pair of these at Klipschfest? (sorry - I just really like to call it Klipschfest) Are you coming to the Pilgrimage? I haven't hear from you... Be sure to email me so we can have an accurate count: amy.unger@klipsch.com Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 Craig, I and soon Dean can assure you they are nothing like the LaScalla's especially on the bottom end[] I'm pretty sure a pair of Jubs juiced by 4 VRD's might remove plaster from most homes[] A pair VRD's and Lascalas already are capable of that! But I don't see where that asset is something of interest at least to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meagain Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/hug/messages/88452.html Roy! Please make sure there's a pair of these at Klipschfest? (sorry - I just really like to call it Klipschfest) Are you coming to the Pilgrimage? I haven't hear from you... Be sure to email me so we can have an accurate count: amy.unger@klipsch.com Thanks! Amy - That might depend on if there's Jubilees there. I sort of have a stubborn issue as to why I have to give out my last name. LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebse2a3 Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 So what is the low end spec in a corner. I thought in the past thread with the curves that the jub wasn't in the corner and it dropped off way before 35Hz. I was assuming that the curve we see comparing the Khorn and the jub bass bin was what the response was in a corner. Is that not right? jc ---------------------------------------------------------------- jc sorry for any confusion I'm causing and maybe I've got it wrong. I've tried to find the post that Roy responded in about measuring under different conditions and also what happens when the system is room loaded but I've had no luck so far. If I remember correctly the commercial spec was with the system installed I'm assuming against a wall and not corner loaded like we might do in a home. Maybe Roy can give more details about this or at least clarify this if I've got this wrong. Bottom line it's a specification I would assume that was derived to reflect actual performance in a typical (commercial setup/enviroment). Another variable in low end reach/cutoff that usually isn't accounted for (since all rooms are different this would be almost impossible to do) is how any "room support" versus lets say 1/8 space loading in a chamber or outdoors for instance affects low end performance. The loading on the system changes when you install it in an actual room were you have finite dimensions/area plus instead of just one corner you now have (8) corners in a box shaped room for example. I believe the safest way to say it is the Klipschorn Jubilee has pratically the same low end extension as a Klipschorn but is smoother with less distortion with a significant improvement in the area from 50Hz to 100hz as well as significant improvements again from about 250Hz and above with a much higher cutoff frequency. mike tn[] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 Mike, I believe the same arguement can be made for every speaker in the klipsch line up except the Khorn. I've made the same case for the specs on the Lascala many times. Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lindsey Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 I sort of have a stubborn issue as to why I have to give out my last name. LOL What, are you famous or something? I mean, besides here? [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwc Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 Yes Mike. I agree with that. I think I remember that the curve showing the Khorn and the Jubilee bass bin comparison.....in a corner...in a chamber.....raw response...no EQ. I'm at work right now but I'll look at it again......It looks to me like the published spec of -3dB and -10db goes along with that raw bass bin curve. Very strong from 50-100Hz vs the khorn. Someone correct me if I'm wrong. jc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 I sort of have a stubborn issue as to why I have to give out my last name. LOL What, are you famous or something? I mean, besides here? [] If you must know, she's a covert CIA agent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Amy Posted February 23, 2007 Moderators Share Posted February 23, 2007 I sort of have a stubborn issue as to why I have to give out my last name. LOL You don't have to if you really don't want to, and you certainly shouldn't let that stop you from visiting. But do send me an email to confirm if you are coming and how many. I do need that much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 Chamber response, no network (attached). I believe there is a lower limit to what the Klipsch chamber can show in the way of LF response, although I can't remember what it is off hand. The Klipschorn is loaded into a built in corner in the chamber, which is necessary to get an accurate midrange response measurement. Remember, without the back being sealed there is major suckout at 250Hz and it's pretty much downhill from there. I see the Klipschorn and Jubilee both basically being 50Hz horns. Corner placement and subsequent boundary effects form a complex load that will vary from room to room. khjub.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 Dean, I don't know/understand all that technical stuff as well as many others here do. Once yours arrive, I'll be REAL interested to hear what your comments are regarding the "real world" seat of the pants response you hear in your room. As I read many of these comments, suggesting "both basically being 50 hz horns", though while perhaps that is technically true, in my room, they're quite a different sounding animal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 ...though while perhaps that is technically true, in my room, they're quite a different sounding animal "There's no replacement for displacement." Lower end cut-off is similar, but it's still a single 15" vs two 12's. The Jubilee also has a fair amount of additional gain in that area between 45 and 100, and it's crossed over higher too. Just a lot small differences that add up to being a bigger sonic difference then one thinks there ought to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwc Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 Yes, that is the curve I was speaking of. I interpret that as the response in a corner. Of course you can expect "room gain" of the low end on any speaker placed in a corner. I've heard some La Scalas in a corner in this small room one time that was hitting very low. They didn't do that in my house. Yes, Richard...I would suspect your are getting some room gain of the low end in your setup. Yes it sounds good. Is your Basemant say 2x the size of your listenig room right now? jc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 I honestly don't know how those curves were done JC. Even if measured in 1/8 space, the chamber only allows you to measure so low, and whether in the chamber or outside in a corner -- you don't get the boost at the bottom from room gain. Really, I think you just have to set them up in your room and measure what they're doing at the low end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwc Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 You mean the chamber can't be used to test say there awesome commercial subs like the 884's. That's a bummer. By the way.....I have heard those subs. Completely rediculous low end that really hits the chest to a startle. This is something I will consider in my new house. jc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 Wendell Johnson Speech and Hearing Center is housed in a 27,000 cubic foot space (30' x 30' x 30') that is isolated from the rest of the building. The chamber is further isolated within the "vault" in that its contact with the floor, walls, and ceiling is through a series of springs. The 36" baffles which fill the floor, walls, and ceiling contribute to sound absorption properties that extend down to 60 Hz. That's a pretty good sized chamber, and it only goes to 60Hz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 Yea, if you want "anechoic low frequency" then you gotta do it outside. Good thing Klipsch has the outdoor 1/8th space corner thing that they do a lot of testing in. I don't recall seeing that in Hope though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bodcaw boy Posted February 24, 2007 Author Share Posted February 24, 2007 So what is the low end spec in a corner. I thought in the past thread with the curves that the jub wasn't in the corner and it dropped off way before 35Hz. I was assuming that the curve we see comparing the Khorn and the jub bass bin was what the response was in a corner. Is that not right? jc ---------------------------------------------------------------- jc sorry for any confusion I'm causing and maybe I've got it wrong. I've tried to find the post that Roy responded in about measuring under different conditions and also what happens when the system is room loaded but I've had no luck so far. If I remember correctly the commercial spec was with the system installed I'm assuming against a wall and not corner loaded like we might do in a home. Maybe Roy can give more details about this or at least clarify this if I've got this wrong. Bottom line it's a specification I would assume that was derived to reflect actual performance in a typical (commercial setup/enviroment). for commerical as is the spec, it is ground plane or 1/2 space. for the jub and khorn for consumer, it is 1/8space or corner loading shooting into an anechoic space. this way it gives you the low end response without room gain and also removes the reflections of what a room might introduce. Another variable in low end reach/cutoff that usually isn't accounted for (since all rooms are different this would be almost impossible to do) is how any "room support" versus lets say 1/8 space loading in a chamber or outdoors for instance affects low end performance. The loading on the system changes when you install it in an actual room were you have finite dimensions/area plus instead of just one corner you now have (8) corners in a box shaped room for example. I believe the safest way to say it is the Klipschorn Jubilee has pratically the same low end extension as a Klipschorn but is smoother with less distortion with a significant improvement in the area from 50Hz to 100hz as well as significant improvements again from about 250Hz and above with a much higher cutoff frequency. mike tn[] have a blessed day, roy delgado Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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