Deang Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 Dean. Where in the world did you get this information on the K-403 and it's use with the B&C driver. I've never even heard of this K-403 mentioned on this forum until the last week or so. Much less its pitfalls/performance. We all knew about the K-403 from the pictures over the years. The only thing we didn't know was its designation. Once we found out it was called the K-403, we just started calling it the K-403 instead of "that wood horn on top of the Jubilee next to PK", or "that black horn that sits on top of PK's Jubilee at home.":) The fact that they were using one of the B&C drivers was openly talked about here and over at the Asylum. I believe it was the now discontinued DE-75. Back when I was digging for information about the horn, someone told me "it's kind of like the old K-5-J" -- which had constant horizontal coverage but collapsed the vertical. Roy confirmed the K-403 did the same thing earlier in this thread. Heck.....Maybe I should be pounding some questions why the Drone version of the jub hasn't seen the light of day. There must be a story about that ....never posted or told. Or did I just overlook it. Maybe I don't know the right people. In fact....where is that bass bin...who has heard it. If you email Roy and act stupid (like you don't know anything), he tells you all kinds of cool stuff. If you email him and act like you know a thing or two -- he clams up and doesn't tell you anything. I act real stupid, so I have lots of cool emails. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfogg Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 "Are you meaning form say 600Hz and up or are you speaking of the more higher frquencies such as 2000Hz and up. The reason I asked is that I was under the (unprofessional) impression that the big horns had the nice low mids." The big Altecs use the bigger 1.4" throat Altec drivers. I think some of that is where the lower mids come from. The multi-cells (at least the 805B) have a sort of large 'body' sound to them, likely from them literally being an array of horns. Altec built them as an array of horns to try to increase dispersion in the days before CD horns were created. On one hand that 'biggness' sounds good but you seem to turn around and tradeoff less focus, clarity and imaging probably for the same reason of it being an array of horns. The K510 uses 2" throat drivers... so even larger then the large format Altecs. It doesn't have that 'bigness' to the sound. But on the flipside you get considerably more focus/clarity which is very obvious when A/Bed back to back. As far as top end the 44xt driver I'm using has more top end then the 288-8k and it is smoother/flatter over its bandwidth then the 288/805B combo. The 288/805B was too dull for me run two way (and it has a peak around 12k-13k) and trying to run it two way results in 'fingering' (collapsing polar response of each cell) between the cells. One of the reasons I chose the crossover point I did (to a JBL 2404H) was to get out of the 805B before it started 'fingering' too strongly while at the same time pushing it as high as I could as the 2404H sounds better that way. In more traditional setups there would be more to this too. The 'big' Altecs on the bigger horns load lower then the smaller Altecs. With low slope crossovers that could be a factor in the resulting sound through the crossover (lower mids) as the crossover itself would determine the acoustic response more then if the driver/horn was crossed right at the edge of its response and one was getting something unintended at the crossover due to the combination of the crossover and what the driver/horn was doing. That probably has an effect on distortion levels as well if a driver is going deeper through a shallow slope. In my case I cut the drivers off *sharply* at crossover. Shawn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwc Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 Hey...I' real good at acting stupid...in fact...some may think I really am...that is ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfogg Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 Dean, "The fact that they were using one of the B&C drivers was openlytalked about here and over at the Asylum. I believe it was the nowdiscontinued DE-75." Nope. The K403 had a 1.4" throat, the DE-75 is a 2" throat driver. I think Klisch still uses some form of the DE75 as that is what comes on the KPT-904HF for example. Shawn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 Nope. The K403 had a 1.4" throat, the DE-75 is a 2" throat driver. I think Klisch still uses some form of the DE75 as that is what comes on the KPT-904HF for example. Where did you learn it had a 1.4" throat? I saw a pic once where you could clearly see the 'B&C SPEAKERS' logo on the back of the driver. I think the K-69-A is a Klipsch modified P.Audio BMD750. What do you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfogg Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 Dean, "Where did you learn it had a 1.4" throat?" From Roy, he posted that in one of these threads. "I saw a pic once where you could clearly see the 'B&C SPEAKERS' logo on the back of the driver." B&C also makes 1.4" throat drivers. The two drivers certainly do look similar. Whatever driver they start with they change out the phase plug... right? Shawn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyKlipschFan Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 And I found this in the "Cinema" section Dean... And I know I have used that term that this is a Cinema speaker your getting. If what you ordered is different how is it different? Am I missing something? Will you need the HF section as well? Roger, they're fairly different. The cinema version is a three-way designed to fill a theater. It takes a gazillion watts, and is voiced for behind the screen. What a handful of us are taking delivery on is a two-way version reengineered by Roy for the home. ================================================================================== OK, so what is different? I assume the x over and maybe a different driver on the big horn to handle lower frequencies and higher ones as well as the cinema version? What is/are your room dimensions this will fit into? I am curious to learn more too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyKlipschFan Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 I understand the K510/K402 are of the same type of design. Is it safe to assume a different driver for the HF Horns is also used here for the home version too. How many watts will you need for this new set up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 B&C also makes 1.4" throat drivers. Sure, sorry. I think I've lost a few brain cells from this thread.The two drivers certainly do look similar. Whatever driver they start with they change out the phase plug... right?Yeah, BEC says when they were down in Hope at the factory, Klipschfolk were working at a table modifying the drivers. He said they were using SLC to create new phase plugs which were being substituted for the originals. Hard telling what other evil stuff Roy is having them do to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 OK, so what is different? I assume the x over ... Yes ...and maybe a different driver on the big horn ... Yes What is/are your room dimensions this will fit into? 14' x thirty something. They'll be on the short wall, and I'll be 15' off of them. The actual footprint is less than my Klipschorns with attached false corners. I understand the K510/K402 are of the same type of design. Mostly. One is big, one is small. Is it safe to assume a different driver for the HF Horns is also used here for the home version too. The 'tweeter' of the Cinema version is used as the midrange/tweeter for the home version. How many watts will you need for this new set up? 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 How many watts will you need for this new set up? 10 No you won't, not if you listen like I believe you listen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 Six months ago I would have said 30. I should probably still say at least 30 because I like to crank movies up a bit on Saturdays when everyone is out of the house. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 Then it'll be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 LOL! You need a minimum of 20 wpc to get that with a pair of Jubilees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyKlipschFan Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 OK, Thanks for answering my questions.. Your looking at this speaker then, with different drivers for the horns, and a custom x over from Roy right? What will be the final H x W x D too? Thanks IAN for the pic.. This what we saw and heard at Klipsch Last summer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 I prefer the one in my avatar -- as it doesn't look like it took a ride down a flight of stairs. 66" x 41.5" x 24.5" My Klipschorns in the false corners are 52.75" x 60" x 28.25" I forgot you were in Hope last year. So, you heard these. I was told grown men were weeping and woman were fainting. Must of been the heat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arky Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 Personally I think they look really cool. If I had some i'd probably sit & stare. Any idea how they would sound in a 17 x 19 cathedral ceiling room? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seti Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 I prefer the one in my avatar -- as it doesn't look like it took a ride down a flight of stairs. 66" x 41.5" x 24.5" My Klipschorns in the false corners are 52.75" x 60" x 28.25" I forgot you were in Hope last year. So, you heard these. I was told grown men were weeping and woman were fainting. Must of been the heat. I hate Arcansaw in the summer. It was hot but not into the extreme heat that we get or as I call it "the melting days". They had to pry me off the Jubilee with a crowbar it was just too heavy for me to run with the thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 They had to pry me off the Jubilee with a crowbar it was just too heavy for me to run with the thing. LOL! I guess that explains all the scratches on the thing. You should buy Travis' Klipschorns if you can. They have a really nice set of networks in them too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bodcaw boy Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 Richard, Paul just wants the horn PK wanted. I understand that, that's how I used to look at it too. But once you understand why PK wanted the K-403, you realize there is a very good possibility that if he was alive now, and saw the plots of the new driver -- he very well may have asked Roy to toss it under the bench and make one more like the K-510. People have to keep in mind that the properties of the K-403 were needed to maintain relatively flat response on-axis (at the expense of a flat power response) because of the rapidly falling HF response of the B&C driver they were using on the prototypes.You don't need the K-403 to have "a Jubilee" -- the new driver means you can have your cake and eat it too. Dean. Where in the world did you get this information on the K-403 and it's use with the B&C driver. I've never even heard of this K-403 mentioned on this forum until the last week or so. Much less its pitfalls/performance. Heck.....Maybe I should be pounding some questions why the Drone version of the jub hasn't seen the light of day. There must be a story about that ....never posted or told. Or did I just overlook it. Maybe I don't know the right people. In fact....where is that bass bin...who has heard it. hmmmm......maybe you should....... jc have a blessed day, roy delgado Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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