Monster HTS 5000 good or not for Amps?

[eglinski]

Seasons Greetings, I would like to know your opinions of the Monster HTS5000 power conditioner, at present Iwould only be using it for 2-channel stereo. What about plugging aCary audio SLI-80 integrated amp, also a powered sub Bag End Infro-sub 18? Ive read reviews that the HTS5000 actually improved the sound Quality as well as all the protection Ive also read that it isn't good for Amplifiers . So im confused please let me know what you guys think about it. thanks in advance Ed. ps im driving K-Horns with the Cary SLI-80

[mobile homeless]

While some may find it beneficial to use something like the the PS Audio PS300, 600 etc for all components, I have never found almost any power filter product good enough to plug your amps into. While a few may be great for CD players, turntables, a few preamps etc, I would not use ANY for your amps, especially something like the Cary SLI-80.

In addition, I auditioned a Monster HTS-2000 and felt it did provide some improvements, but ultimately it reduced the dynamics of my system, this with all my sources and preamp plugged into it. I tried it briefly, just to see, with my 2A3 monoblocks and the dynamics were reeled in in a very noticable way.

Still, it you do have major power problems, a conditioner can be a good thing. I would always buy one with a 30 day trial period to make sure it works in your system; it is very dependent on your power and equipment. A dedicated 20amp line to your equipment can sometimes do far more.

kh

[edster00]

What he said...

I agree completely, I recently had occasion to add some dedicated 20 watt circuits for my amps and components, the results were very satisifying!

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Ed W

[carlos]

so you guys are saying to plug a 3000 or 4000 dollar amp right to the wall??? surge? lightning?

[mobile homeless]

I have been into this mess for the last 25 years or so. When I had solid state amps, I left them on 24 hours a day for the entire time I owned them, plugged directly into their dedicated outlets. The only time I unplugged them was when going on extended travel or in a severe electrical storm... and many times, I would not be around to even do that much. In addition, I live directly on the beach in North Carolina with monster electrical storms commonplace in summer. In all those years, I have never had a problem with lightning blowing out my amps or other equipment, probably because of proper grounding.

I leave my computer running 24 hours a day as well, with monitor screensaver set as a black screen to come up in 8 minutes (loaded Dell 1Ghz w/ Sony 21" Trinitron). I only turn the system off once a week or so to totally clear the RAM. I have never had computer problems of any sort (I make my useless living on the beast). This, however, is the only device (besides video)that I use a dedicated power filter/surge supressor on.

To be frank, I would NEVER plug a power amp into any surge supressor or power filter as the harm it does to the signal far outweighs the fear of the amp going up in smoke. In addition, I have been very hard pressed to even find a power filter that does not slightly degrade the signal even on source components. When you get into the 2A3 3.5 watt area with amazing resolution and clarity, these type of things become easily discernable as the smallest differences can make or break the magic that happens when the system is spot on. I have tried power conditioners off and on over the last 13 years and have not found one yet that I truly like.

Of course, I have evidently been very lucky power wise.

kh

[Colin]

oh god, I am up against mobile again, these contests are not fair, puny guys like me should not have to go up against heavy weights like mobile -

except that he is wrong; all equipment with ICs should have some form of surge protection, the more ICs, the greater the need for surge protection, especially up north with their dry winters -

Due to the sagging power of my new home, I recently picked up a small uninterrupted power supply (UPS) and a new surge protector. With electromagnetic interference (EMI) and radio frequency (RF) filtering, the new power strip replaced a very old one. The combination made quite a difference for the money. It seems to lower the noise floor. There was more quiet in the room. Quiet passages had more air around them. Subtle differences I know, but good ones. This improvement is as effective as a disc mat or vibration isolation platforms, even if they are the ludicrous home made variety. I also had to run the power cable acroos the room to the other side to get the system off the same line as the refrigerator. This reduced hum and switching sounds.

although the best move was to add sub-woofers and 2A3 flea powered tube amps -

My feeling is that retail Monster products are overpriced compared to used, mail-order and less advertised brands -

check out the reviews on the Rotel power center, they have all been excellent and the device is only $200

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Cornwall 1s & Klispch subs; lights out & tubes glowing! Colin's Music System

[mobile homeless]

Are you saying you plug you amps into that? No wonder your bass is gone! Heh...

kh

[TheEAR]

In agree with Mobile about power amps.All my power amps are DIRECT,no power filters,stabilisers,cleaners or dusters.

A good amp should have a proper power supply and does not need any MEGA MONSTER 5000000.Only when flctuations are too great of severe power line problems.

All my powered subs are also DIRECT,no power cleaning gizmos.

TheEAR(s) Now theears

[chickey]

I'm with Colin on this one...the benefits of a surge protector far outweigh (IMHO) the perceived disadvantages. Aside from the catastrophic impact of things like lightening strikes, you'd be surprised just how much your line voltage will vary on any normal day. I've watched mine dip to as low as 114 and "spike" to as high as 126. My surge protector shuts down power to the attached components outside of a certain voltage range. Things like ICs don't respond well to voltage fluctuations beyond a cetain point.

In addition, most audio equipment embodies what's found in the typical household PC these days. In most instances, these components are engineered to an equal or higher quality when compared to their PC counterparts. No one thinks twice about plugging their PC into a quality surge supressor, but when it comes to audio, many take an opposite view. I'd be really suprised if anyone in a double blind test could tell the difference between the same equipment plugged directly into the wall as opposed to into a quality surge protector.

Colin (aka Chickey)

[mobile homeless]

Chickey? ARe you joking? Are you still within the shell?

This might float while listening to a Denon receiver... but if one cant hear the difference between a good amplifier plugged into the wall vs to a power strip or typical power conditioner, then one shouldnt bother posting about sonics at all, at least from an astute listener aspect.

I agree with you 100%, however; in that it DOES offer good protection. But when plugging something like my 2A3 monoblocks (or high current SS amps) into a power conditioner, the difference is EASILY discernable, this from a neophyte as well as an AudioGoon. The circuitry within the power filter inhibits the current flow and reels in dynamics like a rabbit in a top hat!

OF course, thing go a lot easier for source components...but for amps???? IT is usually a liability, double blind or not.

kh

[Colin]

I am playing around with plugging the tube amps into a surge protector and not the surge protector and the UPS, since they do not have any ICs, and my first initial impression is that they do sound slightly better, I will play around with plugging them directly into the wall since you said the magic word - "dynamics", but in the lighting capital of the world (Florida) this really scares me, so we will see if they remain this way ...

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Colin's Music System Cornwall 1s & Klipsch subs; lights out & tubes glowing!

This message has been edited by Colin on 12-17-2001 at 04:32 PM

[Randy Bey]

This has driven me crazy. Crazier. OK, I'm really miffed.

I am now in a quandary, and only Occam's Razor has helped me out.

I built a Jon Risch inspired AC filter a while back and in one fell swoop installed it and a bunch of Belden Power Company power cords. Everything got plugged into the filter via the new cords.

I listened and listened. Waited for 'break-in' to occur. Fretted and fussed.

I couldn't hear a freaking thing. No change, pro or con. Nada.

Hearing MH comment on power amps using AC filters made me bypass the filter for my amps. I hoped for some change, since there was already SLAM and PRAT and BLORP aplenty.

Nada.

Now I'm so confused. Granted, the Jon Risch filter is fairly benign, and it's possible that my power was never all that dirty to begin with. But of all the tweaks and changes I've made to my system, this has had the LEAST impact of them all. And it cost me over $100 in parts, plus a goodly chunk of my time to do it.

Maybe even hobbled power amps are still strong enough for Khorns? I am truly mystified. So many people spoke of such strong changes. My tin ears hear nothing.

Oh heck, I convinced myself to give it more serious listening just now. I need to select program material that will show dynamics, both macro and micro. Then a fairly quick switch back and forth should show me what I'm up against.

[chickey]

Wow Mobile, I havent been spanked in public like that since I was five, and even then it was by my mother. Now its my turn.

First off, I dont own a Denon, unless you decide to lend me yours. :-) Actually, though, Denon makes some nice equipment these days.

Secondly, youll note in my prior posting that I indicated that no audible difference would be heard using a quality surge suppressor. Perhaps I should have been more descriptive, hence the confusion. Im not talking about the $2.99 power strip you pick up at Walmart. Im talking about one that doesnt insert inductors in series with the power, thereby limiting current. Most better units avoid using coils for the very reason you point out you can choke off current to a high drawing amp, which in theory will impact the sound. I say in theory because the real world impact which largely be determined by the load reflected by the speakers and the design of the amp. Assuming, however, that you are using a quality suppressor, this issue never comes up (the available current is the same as if youre wired to the wall), and therefore Im hard-pressed to believe you can hear any difference.

Lets also not forget that amps, although they may not have ICs, have lots of other little doo-dads that can also fry given an over-voltage condition. In addition, dont fool yourself into thinking that plugging all your components into a suppressor except your amps will keep you safe. While Mobile has probably graduated to laser-guided interconnects, the rest of us mere mortals (neophytes as you say) still use plain old wire to interconnect our components. Those interconnects provide a nice little pathway for voltage, and voltage doesnt discern a Technics receiver from your 2A3 monoblocks. Whatever is downstream from those bad boys is a candidate for the fry baby, regardless of cost.

Ok, Ill get off my soap box now. Besides, Mommy just called me in for lunch and said if Im good I can play records on my Fisher Price Close and Play. Of course, Ill have to check and see whether my Chang Lightspeed can handle it.

Chickey

[Audible Nectar]

quote:

---

Secondly, youll note in my prior posting that I indicated that no audible difference would be heard using a quality surge suppressor. Perhaps I should have been more descriptive, hence the confusion. Im not talking about the $2.99 power strip you pick up at Walmart. Im talking about one that doesnt insert inductors in series with the power, thereby limiting current. Most better units avoid using coils for the very reason you point out you can choke off current to a high drawing amp, which in theory will impact the sound. I say in theory because the real world impact which largely be determined by the load reflected by the speakers and the design of the amp. Assuming, however, that you are using a quality suppressor, this issue never comes up (the available current is the same as if youre wired to the wall), and therefore Im hard-pressed to believe you can hear any difference.

---

OK, this discussion has piqued my interest. Does a Panamax audio video unit fit the above qualification? How much dough must one spend to do this properly? I see these Panamax units in high end stores (not that this would mean that they are any more effective) - and am curious if this is the type of unit that Chickey describes above.

Another related question: If there is a 15 amp dedicated outlet in another area of our home (but not in the audio listening room), can I run an extension cord from that outlet to the audio listening area? I realize that not any cheapo ext. cord will do, but what are the requirements here? This is a rental home so I don't have the freedom to just build at will.

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First we Rock, then we Roll!

[Kevin S]

I have the HTS 5000 and have found it to be neutral sonically. It may have made the system background noise a bit less, my system is dead quiet when no signal is present. But I wouldn't swear to it and it's price would not be justified simply for that possible benefit. It does keep the stray noise from light dimmers out of the system, which my old Adcom ACE 515 did not do. But not every amp I've owned was bothered by the dimmers either.

Of course I am one of the great unwashed that mobile homeless thinks shouldn't be allowed to comment on the sonic aspects of a system, since I do not hear the huge sonic differences that the annointed ones, (such as he considers himself, I guess), hear from every change made to a system. So keep that in mind.

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L/C/R: Klipsch Heresy II

Surround: Klipsch RS-3

Subwoofers: 2 HSU-VTF-2

Pre/Pro/Tuner: McIntosh MX-132

AMP: McIntosh MC-7205

DVD: McIntosh MVP-831

CD Transport: Pioneer PD-F908 100 Disc Changer

Turntable: Denon DP-72L

Cassette: Nakamichi BX-1

T.V. : Mitsubishi 55905

SAT/HDTV: RCA DTC-100

Surge Protector: Monster Power HTS-5000

[Mighty Favog]

I'm startin' to like Kevin....

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Tom

KLF-20 Mahogany (Cornell Hotwired)

McIntosh C33 Preamp

McIntosh MVP-841 CD/DVD

Rotel RB-1080 Amp

Yamaha PF-800 Turntable/ Sure V15 Type V Cartridge

Ortofon VMS-30 mkII Cartridge

Stanton 999SS Cartridge

Yamaha K-1020 Cassette

dbx 1231 EQ

H.H. Scott 830z Analyzer

Monster Interlink 400mk II

Monster Interlink 300mk II

Monster Video 2 (DVD to TV)

Monster Power HTS-5000

MIT Terminator 2 Bi-Wire Speaker cables

Studio Tech U-48RW Cabinet

Vibrapods

Enough empty boxes for a fire hazard!

[Conductor]

Hey Bey! WTF is BORP?

This message has been edited by Conductor on 12-18-2001 at 12:22 PM

[mobile homeless]

I'm starting to like Kevin, too. As well as ole Chickey.

Even the entire Klipsch Asylum is getting fun now. Angst and ego abound for a frolicking good time had by all.

I guess I come from the days of old where the verbal sparing was part of the amusement; alas, I should probably cool it a bit although the idea of a gaggle of enemies within the Klipsch forum does provide for some interesting retorts. I was so neutral for so long...how did I let it slip away? The idea of the defensive forum poster is an old one..but one that will live on as long as humans are humans (or whatever we are).

That being said, I grew up in a rather liberal household with no spanking allowed. See what it did?

Chickey and others subscribing to the amps in strip league, can you tell me what strip you find DOES work with the power amps (ok, just noticed you use the Lightspeed filters...)? I have been through some heavy hitter power filters and have found NONE to keep from affecting the sound in a negative way.

As for my equipment, I have been listening to rather expensive gear for over 20 years or more, and have still been lucky as a bastard having never had a failure. I leave most of my stuff on 24 hours a day as said above. Since I find it REALLY DOES degrade the sound to have my amps plugged into a device such as this, I will continue to operate on the Thin Blue Line of Mother Luck.... I will pray to Yahweh and sweet St. Nick to keep me covered.

kh

ps- Tom, TAlktokeith, KevinS, and others ...hello and good tidings from ye olde NC Coast!

pps - tblasing, it is not hard to see why you a starting to feel a kinship with loving KevinS...your systems are rather similar. And both of you subscribe to almost the exact sonic opposite of what I prefer from a system, this based on components. Still, we all have different opinions on sound...let them blossum with glee!

ppps - BLORP? This is the sound the Khorn makes while listening to MOGWAI via a WL LaurelIIx 8w SET. If he had it off the strip, it would be BLORP.

This message has been edited by mobile homeless on 12-18-2001 at 01:26 PM

[Randy Bey]

BLORP:

Bloom

Luster

Ompulence

Richness

Presence

PRAT:

an embarrassing noise related to eating hard boiled eggs and drinking beer.

[chickey]

Mobile - Agreed. A little good natured verbal sparring always makes the debate more interesting and lively. The diversity of opinion (and acceptance of same) is what makes this board so interesting. I'm just having some fun, as I suspect you are as well.

As for the line conditioners, I've used both the Chang and Panamax models with good results. I can't hear the difference (and I'm pretty fussy), but that doesn't mean you can't. It may be real or it may be perceived, but if you hear it, that's all that counts.

Dndphishin - I believe the higher end models from Panamax and Monster do have outlets that are labeled "unfiltered" and/or "high current". I believe these are specifically engineered to avoid the problems referenced above. I'm using a Panamax model at present with good results, and it's supporting about ten separate components, including three power amps.

Chickey (proud to be part of the great unwashed)

C