Piranha Posted May 6, 2007 Share Posted May 6, 2007 ....Well all have different wants, needs and above all ears. What sounds good to you is good. Taking any one persons opinion as fact is a recipe for failure in audio. Just too many variables. I couldn't agree with you more. Don't think anyone would disagree with that. I do think that folks should take the opportunity to hear what they can before choosing and to disregard preconceived notions on what various topography's can and cannot do. Josh How does topography relate to audio? How would it affect what one hears? Would you mind elaborating on what it can and cannot do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshnich Posted May 6, 2007 Share Posted May 6, 2007 ....Well all have different wants, needs and above all ears. What sounds good to you is good. Taking any one persons opinion as fact is a recipe for failure in audio. Just too many variables. I couldn't agree with you more. Don't think anyone would disagree with that. I do think that folks should take the opportunity to hear what they can before choosing and to disregard preconceived notions on what various topography's can and cannot do. Josh My point is that many here say lots of things about all things audio - me included - and that individual ears are individual ears as Craig said his ears are different than my ears so what I prefer is different. I was suggesting that people listen rather than take what is said by others as the gospel - that's all. Josh How does topography relate to audio? How would it affect what one hears? Would you mind elaborating on what it can and cannot do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshnich Posted May 6, 2007 Share Posted May 6, 2007 "...With well design A/B push pull amps you rarely ever going to push the amps out of Class A operation..." Craig I know some A/B amps are specifically designed to operate at low levels in class A, then move to A/B as needed... but you're suggesting that A/B amps as a class do this? If so, this does not match the general idea that A/B at low levels is more prone to crossover distortion...? Well that would depend on the amp and what the designer did with it. My amps for instance run in class too nearly 20 watts in ultra linear and about 10 in triode mode. Yes VRD's are biased on the class A side of the AB envelop. This is why I say us Klipsch users will just about never push them out of class A you would have to be a real head banger in the very large room. My entire point in this thread is the difference in the sound of one amplifier to another can not be attributed solely on the class of operation, triode, ultra linear and so on. So many other variables to take into account and in the end its more the preference of the amps designer and him putting his personal touch to the voicing the amps. The perfect amp for every listener does not exist. Some amps are clearly better then others in every respect. But by the same token some are just different then the next. Many wonderful sounding amps exist on the market and I'm absolutely sure the Pcat's would be considered one of them. Would the Pcat's float my boat? From what I have read so far I doubt it. Would I think they were horrible......absolutely not. Josh obviously loves what he is hearing and I have no problem with that. But the great thing in this situation for me with Josh is I can get a very keen idea as to if I would like the sound. I have rebuilt some 5 or 6 different amps for Josh and garnished pretty detailed opinions and comparisons on them all. In just about all cases his opinion and ratings are the exact opposite of mine about which one he likes the best and why. So that would lead me to believe that he prefers a very different sound then I do. Is he wrong...... absolutely not. You can not be wrong in your preferences to what you like in audio it's literally impossible. I can sit back to myself and say that person is nuts and to me that person would be........but that is based on my preferences to the sound. Craig The one thing we do have in common is where we have set our networks. Dean tells me that you settled on 3/0 with his super aa's and the trachorn. I did the same.I guess that means you are right about something! [] Josh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anarchist Posted May 6, 2007 Share Posted May 6, 2007 It seems undeniable that objective criteria can absolutely define the best topology for music reproduction. One then must decide what additional criteria - whether objective or subjective - impacts the design requiring trade-offs. You must have an ideal before you can make trade-offs or there are no trade-offs. That said - with Mark having shipped his fully class A, true triode, cool name amplifers, some of us would like an update on the DIY offerings - just some small details on things like the Merlin II and integrated amp. Some of us need a fix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted May 6, 2007 Share Posted May 6, 2007 "How does topography relate to audio? How would it affect what one hears? Would you mind elaborating on what it can and cannot do?" Change topography to topology or you might get some silly answers... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshnich Posted May 6, 2007 Share Posted May 6, 2007 "How does topography relate to audio? How would it affect what one hears? Would you mind elaborating on what it can and cannot do?" Change topography to topology or you might get some silly answers... Thanks OT josh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@silverfox@ Posted May 6, 2007 Share Posted May 6, 2007 Thank's for your response,yes&yes, from responses itseems that the there is a vast difference in design goals, realisingthat the high standards needed to acheive the buliders goal, thetechnacial specification in their design will only be visible on ascope, and their audioble range,can only be heard by the listiner, baised on the voicing of the bulider,so since a class" a/b" by its verynature is built on the basis of change its naturally seeks to adapt asstress is applied. The class" a" design is whatever condition, its requirement is to function in its design range. two different approach to the listner's ear. thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Spinner Posted May 6, 2007 Share Posted May 6, 2007 Todd .... think about a Crown D75/2 ask LeoK [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted May 6, 2007 Share Posted May 6, 2007 The one thing we do have in common is where we have set our networks. Dean tells me that you settled on 3/0 with his super aa's and the trachorn. I did the same.I guess that means you are right about something! [] Josh Well at least I'm getting thru too ya on some level[] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS Button Posted May 6, 2007 Author Share Posted May 6, 2007 Todd .... think about a Crown D75/2 ask LeoK [] Finally, somebody says something about SS Class A.[<)] Hey Duke...talk to ya soon. BS[bs] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Spinner Posted May 6, 2007 Share Posted May 6, 2007 well class a/b .. but they'll stay in A a long time w/ klipsch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harley Rider Posted May 7, 2007 Share Posted May 7, 2007 Hello , im working on building my system and its just not making my ears happy. Im currently running 2 sets of CF-3s front and rear using Pioneers Spec 2 amplifiers . 1 amp for each set of speakers . Just was reading some forums , what are pcats? Are they tube amps? Im running all devices through a pioneer spec1 preamp. I do use the Pioneer Sg 9800 EQs 1 for the front and 1 for the rear. Nothing is set to far from flat . Just curious if any one can help as to what amplifier does the CF-3s like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted May 7, 2007 Share Posted May 7, 2007 Would any real or perceived benefits of class A be increased, decreased or inconsequential for someone who is biamping? (presume a NON class A on the 'other side") If there would be a difference, would the difference be 'better' if the class A was put on the top end or bottom end? Scenario: currently McIntosh MC-2102 on HF horn and solid state on LF horn Wondering: what would happen with Class A on HF horn and same solid state on LF horn ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted May 7, 2007 Share Posted May 7, 2007 Yup but by the same token just being Class A does not guarantee low distortion under real world operating conditions. Depending again on many variables. So once again no absolutes exist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxg Posted May 7, 2007 Share Posted May 7, 2007 Here is the best SS way of driving Heritage with all Class A that I know of: http://www.accuphase.com/model/e-550.html To be honest I have never heard this version - the all new 550 - but the 530 impressed the hell out of me when I heard it and I cannot imagine this is worse..... Someone on the forum has a 530 - maybe they can chime in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheltie dave Posted May 7, 2007 Share Posted May 7, 2007 I have noticed that amps sound different at different elevations(hence the topography.) Most amps tend to sound wetter on submarines underwater. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxg Posted May 7, 2007 Share Posted May 7, 2007 Looks like a beauty Max. And 30W is quite sufficient. What sort of price are those? Sorry Mark - no idea what they go for over there - but Accuphase is not a cheap make....anywhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshnich Posted May 8, 2007 Share Posted May 8, 2007 Looks like a beauty Max. And 30W is quite sufficient. What sort of price are those? Looks like the list is $9,999.00 Josh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted May 8, 2007 Share Posted May 8, 2007 I have an Accuphase tuner... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Islander Posted May 8, 2007 Share Posted May 8, 2007 Our sensitivity to distortions of all kind is more pronounced in the midrange and treble than in the bass. If one takes the position then that a Class A amplifier has beneficial properties regarding distortions, then you are going to notice that effect more on the midrange or highs than in the bass. Maybe a simpler way to say it is put your most revealing amplifier on the mid or high frequencies. Many years ago, my dad played string bass in a band. According to him, the average listener couldn't even tell if a bass player is playing in tune or not, although he always was. "Bass is bass" to many folks' ears... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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