cjgeraci Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 Tripath gets scary close. As in the Carver Zr Tripath series amplifiers that Minn_Male42 use to go on about? I believe those were powerful if I remember correctly. They were the talk of the town so to speak. Dean's tried the Carver as well as the Teac and Hypex. I believe his comment above refers to the Sonic Impact Super T though................................... Carl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjgeraci Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 All around best performer over here has been Craig's VRDs. If you don't need the power and don't have the wallet, Tripath gets scary close. Agreed. That is what convinced me to keep both in my system. [] Of course, when push comes to shove, Craig's amps get center stage. Carl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 I think the notion of only listening to 1 mW is rather misleading - or heck, even listening to 5 watts. I've had a scope on the output of the various amps we've been building in lab and I must confess that I'm dumbfounded by how much more power we're using that is often touted on the forums. The Chorus II is rated to be 101dB with 2.83V at 1 meter. When playing normal music, the scope is reading peaks of 2.83V, but the SPL is reading around 74dB C-Weighted Fast sitting a meter from the speakers. This would indicate that there is about 26dB worth of transients in the song we were playing - and as you can imagine, 74dB really doesn't seem that loud - especially when you're expecting 100dB. The reason I mention this in voltage is because our speakers don't have perfectly flat impedance responses. The Chorus II for example dips down to around 5 ohms at 40Hz (the tuning point), which means almost twice as much power is being drawn at 40Hz versus say 800Hz where the impedance is closer to 8 ohms. If you bump the listening level up to a fuller sounding 80dB (as measured by the SPL meter), then you're looking at over 8W from the amp and it's not even loud yet... I don't mean to belabour the point, but I think the measurements are rather interesting. Of course, if you put in a steady tone at 2.83V you will measure 101dB, but the way most people interpret SPL is by measuring music, not test tones...in which case, the huge transients become very misleading. Dead on with this post!! I'm shocked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seti Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 I think the notion of only listening to 1 mW is rather misleading - or heck, even listening to 5 watts. I've had a scope on the output of the various amps we've been building in lab and I must confess that I'm dumbfounded by how much more power we're using that is often touted on the forums. The Chorus II is rated to be 101dB with 2.83V at 1 meter. When playing normal music, the scope is reading peaks of 2.83V, but the SPL is reading around 74dB C-Weighted Fast sitting a meter from the speakers. This would indicate that there is about 26dB worth of transients in the song we were playing - and as you can imagine, 74dB really doesn't seem that loud - especially when you're expecting 100dB. The reason I mention this in voltage is because our speakers don't have perfectly flat impedance responses. The Chorus II for example dips down to around 5 ohms at 40Hz (the tuning point), which means almost twice as much power is being drawn at 40Hz versus say 800Hz where the impedance is closer to 8 ohms. If you bump the listening level up to a fuller sounding 80dB (as measured by the SPL meter), then you're looking at over 8W from the amp and it's not even loud yet... I don't mean to belabour the point, but I think the measurements are rather interesting. Of course, if you put in a steady tone at 2.83V you will measure 101dB, but the way most people interpret SPL is by measuring music, not test tones...in which case, the huge transients become very misleading. Dead on with this post!! I'm shocked. I am going to mark this day in my callendar. This is interesting. I wish there was an easier way to take these measurements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest " " Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 ditto on all the tube stuff in general....brands and models are to each their own. in the SS world, if you have the opportunity to land a late 70's Pioneer M-22 30 watt per channel class A amplifier, don't let it pass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluesboy Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
consistent Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 Forget the crap that plugs into the wall go with an amp that plugs into a battery and you will never look back! Happy listening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Mandaville Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 Dean: "All around best performer over here has been Craig's VRDs." Really? The 'best' might be the one you like the most after having a chance to listen to a few, including perhaps some of the suggestions offered here. There is no single amp that spends the most time in the spotlight, and there are many who prefer solid state to tube, tube to solid state, single-ended to push-pull, push-pull to single-ended. There are also a number of reviews of the larger Heritage line where low power amplifiers, in the range of just a couple of watts or so, were found to be more than adequate and in fact preferred. There are also forum members who enjoy examples of both higher and lower power. Look around and listen to some different amplifers if possible. Choose what you like. Erik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lindsey Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 Dean: "All around best performer over here has been Craig's VRDs." Really? The 'best' might be the one you like the most after having a chance to listen to a few, including perhaps some of the suggestions offered here. There is no single amp that spends the most time in the spotlight, and there are many who prefer solid state to tube, tube to solid state, single-ended to push-pull, push-pull to single-ended. There are also a number of reviews of the larger Heritage line where low power amplifiers, in the range of just a couple of watts or so, were found to be more than adequate and in fact preferred. There are also forum members who enjoy examples of both higher and lower power. Look around and listen to some different amplifers if possible. Choose what you like. Erik He is talking about his choice... when he says "over here" he is referring to his own own home and his own system. And I'll bet he's heard/owned just as many amps as you have... Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stormin Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 grade school? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 Dean: "All around best performer over here has been Craig's VRDs." Really? The 'best' might be the one you like the most after having a chance to listen to a few, including perhaps some of the suggestions offered here. There is no single amp that spends the most time in the spotlight, and there are many who prefer solid state to tube, tube to solid state, single-ended to push-pull, push-pull to single-ended. There are also a number of reviews of the larger Heritage line where low power amplifiers, in the range of just a couple of watts or so, were found to be more than adequate and in fact preferred. There are also forum members who enjoy examples of both higher and lower power. Look around and listen to some different amplifers if possible. Choose what you like. Erik Talk about a bait job............ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 Talk about a bait job............ Indeed... and from the master himself... [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 The kind of post you might write out for a guy whose only been doing this a year or two, really Erik. The 'best' might be the one you like the most after having a chance to listen to a few... Like I haven't lived with enough amplifiers: Luxman M-117, B&K 4420, Aragon 4004 MKII, Adcom 555 MKII, QSC PLX 1602, Carver ZR-1600, Bryston 3B-ST, Anthem Amp 1, AES AE-25 Superamp, Superamp DJH, Welborne Apollos, Wright Sound WPA3.5, Scott 299B, Canary CA 301 MKII, VAC 30/30, QUAD II-forties, Quicksilver M-60's, TEAC AL-700, Trends TA-10, SI Super-T. Maybe a couple more, I can't remember -- and doesn't include anything I've heard in my system before going to horns, or amps I've heard in other systems since then. I guess you missed my hundred or so amplifier threads. I wouldn't mind hearing the TS OTL, Kings Rex Tripath, and for some reason feel an itch to hear the QUAD 909. I don't think there is a "best" amp, which is why I said "all around best performer". No amp does everything perfectly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audio Flynn Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 Dean: "All around best performer over here has been Craig's VRDs." Really? The 'best' might be the one you like the most after having a chance to listen to a few, including perhaps some of the suggestions offered here. There is no single amp that spends the most time in the spotlight, and there are many who prefer solid state to tube, tube to solid state, single-ended to push-pull, push-pull to single-ended. There are also a number of reviews of the larger Heritage line where low power amplifiers, in the range of just a couple of watts or so, were found to be more than adequate and in fact preferred. There are also forum members who enjoy examples of both higher and lower power. Look around and listen to some different amplifers if possible. Choose what you like. Erik Talk about a bait job............ Like Dean has been sheltered or narrow minded about amplification purchases or evaluations over the past several years. Far from it. Now that vinyl thing is ia different story. [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 What stopped me from getting back into vinyl is the same thing that caused me to give up tubes -- it's just not practical (or safe) when you have little ones running around. At one point it was a dedicated room, but not anymore! Last week I lost track of Alexia, and went upstairs and found her sliding a Veggietales DVD into the tray -- how long before this two year old discovers the volume control! O.K., you get the picture, and while the rest of you are waxing poetic about the sonic differences of amplifiers -- I now have to go shopping for some audiophile duct tape to cover the VC up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seti Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 The kind of post you might write out for a guy whose only been doing this a year or two, really Erik. The 'best' might be the one you like the most after having a chance to listen to a few... Like I haven't lived with enough amplifiers: Luxman M-117, B&K 4420, Aragon 4004 MKII, Adcom 555 MKII, QSC PLX 1602, Carver ZR-1600, Bryston 3B-ST, Anthem Amp 1, AES AE-25 Superamp, Superamp DJH, Welborne Apollos, Wright Sound WPA3.5, Scott 299B, Canary CA 301 MKII, VAC 30/30, QUAD II-forties, Quicksilver M-60's, TEAC AL-700, Trends TA-10, SI Super-T. Maybe a couple more, I can't remember -- and doesn't include anything I've heard in my system before going to horns, or amps I've heard in other systems since then. I guess you missed my hundred or so amplifier threads. I wouldn't mind hearing the TS OTL, Kings Rex Tripath, and for some reason feel an itch to hear the QUAD 909. I don't think there is a "best" amp, which is why I said "all around best performer". No amp does everything perfectly. Wow great list of past equipment. I still miss my Canary Audio CA300. If a CA301MKII pops up on agon at a good price I would love to hear it. The build quality is superb. I'd also like to try the Quad II-forties at some point. What are your faves out of that list? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audio Flynn Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 What stopped me from getting back into vinyl is the same thing that caused me to give up tubes -- it's just not practical (or safe) when you have little ones running around. At one point it was a dedicated room, but not anymore! Last week I lost track of Alexia, and went upstairs and found her sliding a Veggietales DVD into the tray -- how long before this two year old discovers the volume control! O.K., you get the picture, and while the rest of you are waxing poetic about the sonic differences of amplifiers -- I now have to go shopping for some audiophile duct tape to cover the VC up. I think it was 1989 when the oldest daughter at 6 years old when my stylus got bent. Thankfully my littlest of 4 is 12 years old now. Those nipper pegging the volume control events are a bit jarring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 Talk about a bait job............ Indeed... and from the master himself... [] Hmmmm I don't remember mentioning lately that the mighty Jub is only marginally better in some small way then the rest of the Klipsch speaker line [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 I think the notion of only listening to 1 mW is rather misleading - or heck, even listening to 5 watts. I've had a scope on the output of the various amps we've been building in lab and I must confess that I'm dumbfounded by how much more power we're using that is often touted on the forums. The Chorus II is rated to be 101dB with 2.83V at 1 meter. When playing normal music, the scope is reading peaks of 2.83V, but the SPL is reading around 74dB C-Weighted Fast sitting a meter from the speakers. This would indicate that there is about 26dB worth of transients in the song we were playing - and as you can imagine, 74dB really doesn't seem that loud - especially when you're expecting 100dB. The reason I mention this in voltage is because our speakers don't have perfectly flat impedance responses. The Chorus II for example dips down to around 5 ohms at 40Hz (the tuning point), which means almost twice as much power is being drawn at 40Hz versus say 800Hz where the impedance is closer to 8 ohms. If you bump the listening level up to a fuller sounding 80dB (as measured by the SPL meter), then you're looking at over 8W from the amp and it's not even loud yet... I don't mean to belabour the point, but I think the measurements are rather interesting. Of course, if you put in a steady tone at 2.83V you will measure 101dB, but the way most people interpret SPL is by measuring music, not test tones...in which case, the huge transients become very misleading. Dead on with this post!! I'm shocked. I am going to mark this day in my callendar. This is interesting. I wish there was an easier way to take these measurements. Well if you have a digital source (like a CD), you could always just plug the CD into a software waveform viewer on your computer and see essentially the same signal the scope would be showing you. On well recorded music, it is fairly apparent which parts are the transients and which parts aren't...if you figure 1W for the steady parts, then you can calculate how many watts are needed to achieve the transient peaks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest " " Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 "At one point it was a dedicated room, but not anymore! Last week I lost track of Alexia, and went upstairs and found her sliding a Veggietales DVD into the tray -- how long before this two year old discovers the volume control! O.K., you get the picture, and while the rest of you are waxing poetic about the sonic differences of amplifiers" enjoy it while you can. when my kids were little I noticed my tools kept coming up missing.....screw drivers, pliers, etc....I kept buying them....I kept lossing them...eventually I noticed my speakers were making strange noises.....one day I moved one and I heard something moving inside the cab....I pull the woofer and looked in side and found all the tools I was missing over the last year....my tot's were putting them inside the speakers via the bass port opening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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