thebes Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 Welcome Altman and sorry you ran into a buzz saw on this. This place can be cantankerous at times and a good donneybrook often clears the air (until the next one pops up). What did I do wrong you say? Nothing. There's an ongoing war her between muscle and minimalism known as the the "Great SET Vs Push Pull Divide". So far it's cost thousands of lives and ruined the economy of over 30 nations. "Why can't we all just get along ", you say? While it's very much like the Yankees versus the Red Socks. It shows no sign of ending soon. Then somebody (s) just had to mention Jubs which for some obscure reason gets certain peoples backs up. At this stage they are not the sweetest thing to look at, but customization can be undertaken at the factory above the selling price point. If you're inclined towards SET I suspect you couldn't go wrong either way. Now to the personalities. Dr. Who is the brilliant boy genius who with all the brashness and certainty of youth is sometimes guilty of getting a little ahead of himself. He's also a fount of knowledge whose helped countless folks here as is a die hard Klipscoholic. Craig, Nosvalves, is a gregarious grumpus and the type who will make sure you've just taken in a mouthful of beer before he slaps you on the back so he can watch with amusement as it shoots across the room. He's could also put a dollop of solder on the head of the proverbial pin without getting any on all the angels. He also makes some really fantastic push./pulls and should be on your short list should you go that way. Mikebse2A3 is what a real southern gentleman should be. His knowledge of tubes, clean sound, room treatments and the theory of creating the best listening experience would make him a tenured professor at one of our nation's leading universities in a more perfect world. In a soldering contest Craig would be sweating bullets. After hearing the Jubs he sold his Khorns (and probably a point or two of blood) to get the wherewithal to buy them. That should tell you something right there. If they ever got together they could put a tube rectified satellite on the moon (once they got over fighting over what transformers to use). Gary and Larry have between them, and their generous natures, introduced more people to the sweet sound of high end Klipsch than anybody I can think of. Their offers are serious and if you are at living in the DC area do not fail to take them up on their offer. They both have nearfield Khorn setups with different mixes of really nice equipment. If've also got a Cornwall setup on the Virginian side should you be so inclined to stop by. Hang tough, hang around, have fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 Sheesh. My guess is that Mr. Ears will wind up with one heckuva system in SPITE of us... Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean5340 Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 Sheesh. My guess is that Mr. Ears will wind up with one heckuva system in SPITE of us... Dave Amen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcmusic Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 I can not belive you guys, every time I log on to this forum there seems to be an argument about jubs and Khorns. What a waste of time, to each his own and who gives a #$%^ what the other guy says. More time should be spent on music listening, than discussion over which speaker is better or what ever else you guys can dream up. My only advice would be to, GET SOME HORNS and a TUBE AMP sit down and try to enjoy yourself. Jay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audio Flynn Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 i think what is turning most people off about them is that every thread turns into a jubilee love fest. a poster will post that my grandmother is dying of cancer and one of the 15 people who have the jubilee will respond "have you thought about trading her in for a jubilee". i could buy a pair today, but i'm so sick of hearing that my khorns inhale and that i haven't heard music until i have heard the jubilee. i really don't think klipsch has been selling carp for 60 years and just figured it out in the last couple of years because 15 people have bought juglees. danny LMAO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldbuckster Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 Maybe some of you guys just have too much money ................. try living on a fixed income ..... Are we through pissing on the walls Guys? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebse2a3 Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 Now to the personalities. Thebes, A rare personality who has the ability to spin words with the best of them. His tales based on fact and fiction are always fun to read. Having been involved in several small explosions and lived to tell about it during the restoration of some Bogen mono amps seems to have no fear of death now and is ready for his next restoration project. Thebe's music threads are some of the best parts of the forum and really take on their own life. A friendlier person you will never meet and so as thebes said hang around it actually can be a very interesting and fun place here on the forum. mike tn[] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audio Flynn Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 You folks really know how to stir up issues --- thanks.... A festive thread from my perspective. Let me answer a few of the issues and make a few obsevations. 1. Jub's in concept may be great --- they are two way and can be actively bi-amped --- on the other hand the Jubs in the catalog don't look like the jubs that are in the Paul Klipsch picture and I think I like the looks of the more domesticated version --- Is a possible solution buying the standard bins and having someone like martinelli build some custom wood horns??? I like my room to be a pleasant looking as the musci is pleasant sounding. A walnut Jub would be nice but the horn is still hard to "dress up". K Horns and Belles look prettier than any other speaker and the design does have decades of experience in looking good. 2. As far as amps and crossovers are concerned I'd only be interested in tubes --- a custom made tube crossover is fine. So many tube amplifiers out there I have not heard that interest me at higher price point. Audio Note, BAT, and others are certianly to performa well. 2A3 PP would be interesting to hear like a Lessard. Blueberry is a darn nuetral 6DJ8 preamp with a phono section that is difficult to find fault with. I like 12AX7 preamps as well, although most I have heard are Vintage. My Q4 2007 upgrade to a KT 88 PP amp running currently in triode has been soo much fun I spend less and less time at this forum. Now I study scuba diving hardware on the web for my newest hobby in 2008. 3. Finances --- I'm trying to do the most with the least --- don't we all --- as far as what "league" I'm in --- I'm your basic guy trying to make an honest buck. 4. Source equipment is adequate --- I have the Linn Karik Numerik and CD12 players and an LP 12 for a turntable. I plan to have a custom Garrard 301 built/rebuilt. I have 4 preamps in VA... A Linn Kairn Pro pre, A NYAL tube pre --- vintage, A Mcintosh MX119, A Linn AV pre (sounds a bit better than the Mac) Next preamp I will be a pre with step up trnasformers so I can do more experiementation at home with LOMC carts. 5. Music is too diverse to mention --- everything. Classic, Smooth Jazz, Pop etc... Hope that answers all questions --- thanks for the replies built. One thing I have come to learn through all the challenging discussion and system evolution of my dedicated 2 channel room in the past 7 years. You have to get equipmet in your home and listen for dozens of hours to see if it works for you, Worst K Horn and Belle demos I have heard were in brick and mortar dealers. K Horns with 300 usd Yamaha integrated and low line CD player was hiddieous. Good Luck on the K Horn acquisition. look forward to hering how you like tham. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 I like NOSvalves refurbished, vintage integrated tube amplifiers for value, but I like dbFlash’s recommendations for best performance on a Khorn. I would add a earth shattering sub like the Epik Conquest…. I would defiantly get the ALK crossovers for an old pair of big ole horns Go see GaryMD! I did hook a boombox to big ole horns, and vice-versa (they sounded very good!): http://www.enjoythemusic.com/senselessrambling/ When I had Cornwalls, it seemed every thread was a LaScala or Khorn love fest. When I heard them, they were right. I upgraded the first chance I got and my only regret is moving the darn things! You can add Beyma tweeters, ALK crossovers and Altec 511B mid-range horns to the Khorns for less than $3K and it will be just as “ugly” as the Jubilees. Excuse me, Jubilees are commercial, not home product – size and looks was not a major concern You don’t have to be an audiophile to hear the differences between loudspeakers and stereo set-ups, but there is a question about how important those differences are…. Ditto, What Thebes said The bigger, the horn the better! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 You could also but used LaScala or Belles and modify them, but they both need a sub: Here are my old price ranges: Belles share the same wonderful mid and high range drivers and horns as the mighty Khorn, but fall off quickly below 100Hz. Yet they have a tipped up bottom and top-end response (many loudspeakers intentionally tip up the ends of their frequency response). Belles don’t require a corner and are same as LaScalas, but have decorative cloth covered fronts. In a half-dozen sales on eBay, in August 2004, Belle pair sold from $800 to 2075 (average $1,352). Prices seem to have spiked upward however, with Klipsch selling new models on eBay. Three sold in 2006, bumping the average up to $1764. LaScalas, same as Belles, but with exposed wood front (no cloth on bottom), also share the same lens and drivers as the Khorn, also fall below 100Hz. Their frequency response is rougher, but it is NOT tipped at both ends like the Belles. LaScalas have the same shape as Belles. From half-a-dozen sales on eBay in August, 2004, LaScalas sold from $750 to $2,504 (average $1,393). LaScalas are bargains compared to the similar Belles. Four recent sales drop the average down to $1064! In all cases, the type of crossover can make a different, as some are better than others. Shipping on both averages $150. Posted: 5/1/2006 Classic Klipsch corner Klipschorns, though much larger than LaScala or Belles, require two equidistant, solid corners of a room, and yet take up less footprint. They are more even and smooth, over a wider range, than the either Belles or LaScala, and don’t fall off until 30Hz. Three dozen recent eBay sales average $1,944, almost one-hundred more than 2 years ago. The range was from $999 to $3050. Speakerlab clones went for only $660 and an original mono sold for $761. Shipping averages $575, bringing the total average cost to $2,473. This is less than half the list price of new ones! Considering the cost of Avant-garde Audio’s large, bright horns, the unobtrusive Khorns are a classic bargain. They do require quality low watt amplification. Many Khorn lovers change much of their front-end equipment, but once they do, they never sell them. The most popular modifications (upgrading the mid and high-end horns and crossovers) are also effective tweaks on the lower, less costly models. Posted: 5/2/2006 Posted: 5/25/2006 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 I'm questioning the absurdity that a speaker is going to make a POS source, preamp or amp sound better. Who the heck said changing the speakers is going to change the sound of the source/preamp/amp? That would be like saying that changing the tires on my car is going to make my hair look darker! I like green wires in my soup too. Take a $50 Emerson player driving some Crown XTis and Jubs and it will sound better than let's say a Shanling CD player driving some BAT amps, or really any flavor of tubes. You guys take your pic and let's have a shootout. That's a pretty bold claim until you sit down and consider the magnitude of difference between the Khorn and Jub versus the magnitude of difference between cheap and expensive electronics...of course the people selling electronic equipment don't wanna hear that! It's interesting, but I'm totally tempted to provide some objective data that supports the claim, but it's ironic because the unheards are going to claim the data cannot possibly correlate to their experiences when they've never experienced it before! Let's see, 10% less distorion versus 0.1% less distortion...which would you rather spend less money on? [^o)] Poptarts make great coasters until you throw the cup against the wall and ride down the slide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 Like I've said 100 times mass exageration in going on here. More like denial Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 By nature the more revealing the speaker, the more important quality upstream components should be....This is only common sense. Common sense? lol Most of the distortions imparted by amplifiers or preamps or source material or whatnot sound nothing like the distortions imparted by speakers! And by distortions, I'm referring to attributes of the behavior that SOUND bad. If you remove suck, then it is going to sound better! It doesn't matter where the suck is removed from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 i could buy a pair today, but i'm so sick of hearing that my khorns inhale and that i haven't heard music until i have heard the jubilee. i really don't think klipsch has been selling carp for 60 years and just figured it out in the last couple of years because 15 people have bought juglees. Wow, that's real mature! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 1. Jub's in concept may be great --- they are two way and can be actively bi-amped --- on the other hand the Jubs in the catalog don't look like the jubs that are in the Paul Klipsch picture and I think I like the looks of the more domesticated version --- Is a possible solution buying the standard bins and having someone like martinelli build some custom wood horns??? There's no reason you couldn't have Martinelli build you some custom horns. One of the nice things about the Jub LF is that it gets up high enough to allow many options for the HF section. Keep in mind that it would be a major sacrifice in performance to go with something smaller than the K402 because then you get rid of the flat power response (which is one of the key ingredients). I think a nice TAD driver with a constant directivity tractrix horn would be real killer. You might look up Rigma...I think he's the only one running tubes with a passive crossover. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 Btw, the forum has been pretty slow as of late and I just got back from mixing 4 hours of live music and wanted to chillax a bit...I must confess that it's fun to rile up the old farts that are so stubborn and set in their ways. [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldbuckster Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 I must confess that it's fun to rile up the old farts that are so stubborn and set in their ways. DUDE !!!!!!!!!! I will take that comment as an attempt at humor !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 I must confess that it's fun to rile up the old farts that are so stubborn and set in their ways. DUDE !!!!!!!!!! I will take that comment as an attempt at humor !!! And I don't think that is even pointed at you. AltmanEars... the Jubs in the literature are the full commercial versions... some of the other folks who have dressed theirs up need to post pics for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldbuckster Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 I represent all OLD FARTS on this Forum .................. Don't read some much into that statement ..... the tone of this thread is becoming, well, for the lack of the right words, try this, We are going to end up driving the new guy away, he asked about Khorns, and here we are ...AGAIN. The only people who really know about Jubilees are Jubilee owners, wouldn't you agree? Are they not the best source of information, and the rest only think they know. Again, NOSvavles makes a valid point, and gets jumped on ..................... Whatever, carry on ..... If it was pointed my way, and it wasn't, my response would have a much different tone, Trust me on that !!!!.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 I with the Buckster... I was first responder and I recommended K'horns, 125.00 digital amp, ST70 or equivalent if tubes were desired, and source equipment and material of choice. IMOH, anything beyond that is required only for analysis or aesthetics, not listening. I don't want to start anything with that statement, either. Analysis and listening are two differenct hobbies that share the same basic equipment separated by dollar signs, guns, and knives. Aesthetics are in the eye and bank account of the beholder. Herr Earmeister cannot go wrong started with the above and then throwing as much cash beyond that as he wishes. I'd suggest he start a new thread with specific equipment under consideration. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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