Who here uses a pro amp to drive his speakers ?

[Daddy Dee]

So what is the Klipsch congregation opinion of the LaScala ll ?

Personally I would love them. Heck, any Klipsch LaScalas would be very much appreciated here !

Very nice. Bass is more robust than the original LaScala.

[Marvel]

I used an Alesis RA-100 to run the JBL 4408's. Worked out really nicely too. At least... until the ProMedia 2.1 came along

I still use a couple of the RA-100 amps. Really pretty decent for the money. Absolutely no ICs in them, all discreet devices, unless they're hiding somewhere in the chassis. You can pick them up used really inexpensively.

Bruce

[DrWho]

I measured my XTi 1000 with a precision analog oscillator. Using 1khz as a reference, I measured some frequencies down 1.5dB and some up by 1.5dB. Considering several other amps I have don't vary by .2dB, I'd say that puts the XTi in a weird category, measurement wise. That's a 3dB difference between a peak and a valley. Is that just insignificant to you?

Your information is terribly lacking in any real meaning...1.5dB fluctuations at what frequency? And what kind of load? Your claims certainly don't seem to jive with the performance specs advertised by Crown. And while I ultimately don't ever trust manufacture specs, what you are proposing is so far off from what they claim that I simply cannot believe it - especially without real data being presented in a proper engineering fashion, instead of your own interpretations. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised to learn that the DSP wasn't really off.

[Guest srobak]

ok... so back to the topic...

If you use a pro amp to run your speaks - post up what you are using...

(seems like a simple idea, really)

[michael hurd]

For a while when I got my QSC PLX II 3102 I ran it in stereo on the main L/R speakers. I experienced clipping driving my rather inefficient ( compared to K-horn's or Jub's ) RF3II when using dynamic recordings.

It is rated to do 550 wpc (FTC rated ) from 20hz-20khz into 8 ohm stereo. Switchmode power supply, 2 tier class H amplifier.

[DrWho]

Your view there is "frequency domain" dominant, whereas music is really time domain dominant. It is always tempting to fall back on an FFT or spectral content view, but FFT applies accurately only to periodic forms, not transient forms.

That is totally NOT TRUE whatsoever! Fourier Analysis applies to anything that is linear and time-invariant, which everything being discussed so far has absolutely satisfied.

That tiny moment or sliver of time when stick hits cymbal creates a steep transient step. The steeper it is, the wider the bandwidth of the spectra becomes, to the point where any instantaneous step must contain infinite frequency spectrum from DC to blue light. Clearly we don't hear that spectra, but also clearly we DO hear and process the transient event with great discrimination!

Sadly, inability to hear the "high frequency" is the same thing as saying inability to hear the "sharp transient edge".

[michael hurd]

I am keeping an eye out for a nice minty QSC PL9.0 to come up close enough to me. Also, I need to get more power yet for "The Beast". A pair of QSC PL380's would do, but I need to save up a lot if I end up going that route. At the time being I think I am going to just get another PLX II 3102.

[DrWho]

Now a serious question...I will be getting Klipsch Heritage series this year,I want a pair of new LaScala II mains for my Tenor Audio amps. I know the LaScala is bass limited(to ~50Hz),this is a non issue since I will play ONLY acoustic...guitar mostly.Remember I also have a few very high quality subs if I ever need output below 60Hz.

So what is the Klipsch congregation opinion of the LaScala II ?

The LaScalla II smokes the old LaScala. In fact, I can't stand the original, but the II is voiced extremely well and much smoother sounding. It's crazy, but the LSII actually weighs more than a Khorn [] Couple them bad boys with some quality subwoofage and you'll have yourself some amazing clean sound.

[oldtimer]

No pro amp here. We are an anti amp family.

[michael hurd]

For those people that wonder how I could possibly clip an amplifier that produces that sort of voltage (550 wpc into an 8 ohm load) into relatively " sensitive " loudspeakers... lest not us forget about dynamic range....

If for instance you are using say 50 watts of power ( fairly loud already ) and a 10 db transient comes along.... the power amp is asked to produce 500 watts.

Depending on your distance from the loudspeakers in question, to reproduce sound at a "concert" level you require quite a bit of power.

[jwc]

"Then I will have to go for LaScala for mains. "

I got in late on this. I am very pleased with my LS II's. I am now trying to integrate subwoofers. Due to the room....I can't get the exact subwwofers I want but this will have to do while I'm in this house.

Anyway, the LS II's sound much better than my late La scalas. You will be happy I'm sure.

jc

[Don Richard]

Holy cow! No offense guys, but did either of you read the whole article I posted? It didn't say people "hear" above 20khz as in conventional hearing, it said that energy as high as 40khz caused alpha wave activity which aided in people's "perception" of music.

I thought you were trying to prove that ultrasonic frequencies caused square wave activity. Actually they do, in electronic equipment, if the ultrasonic information consists of odd harmonics of the fundamental frequency. Alpha waves? Well, if you were as close to an instrument making sounds as the mic that they used in that study, the ultrasonics would be masked by the fundamental frequency and its audible overtones. According to the study you cited ultrasonic information that is correlated comprises 1-2% of the total energy in the waveform. If they had miced that instrument at a normal listening distance the ultrasonic information would not have even made it to the listening position to cause any activity of any sort. If you had listened to that instrument at the stated measuring distance you would be deaf in short order, and you would have to get your supply of alpha waves from a source other than music.

Ultrasonic: Pertaining to acoustic frequencies above the range audible to the human ear, or above approximately 20,000 cycles per second.

It might take some of those $15,000 cables to deliver alpha waves. I hear (pun intended) that they do all sorts of inaudible things that are of great benefit.

Alpha waves? Jost say Ommmmmmmmmmmmmmm...Ommmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. Repeat as necessary.

Don

Honk if you love Horns

[Coytee]

And you also observed "Average" people do not own Klipschorns or Jubilees..."

For the record, I'd like to suggest that I'm about as average as they come. I just happen to love big sound that sounds good.

[]

[Don Richard]

Exactly what amps have you directly compared to your XTi in your own setup?

Hardly any. I just got the XTIs about a year ago. The "best" amp that I hooked up was an SAE MKII, 1975 vintage. On HF. The SAE didn't interface well with the active xover and had audible noise.

Don

Honk if you love Horns

[Jeff Matthews]

well, no, Jeff ..

but visit the thread on the D45, for some Elucidation ..

Yes, I visited it. It was an interesting thread and moved kind of quickly. I saw what appeared to be a fairly good review of a $350 amp, stating it does not have the detail and speed of higher-end amps, but for $350, it certainly does not disappoint and is very solid - especially in the manner it grips the drivers.

Lots of adjectives in there, and I can't say I get a feel for it all - especially having a good grip on the drivers while being slow. This may be common parlance in the trade, but it sounds almost contradictory to me.

Mark, have you listened to Crown's K-series or the Micro/Macro-Tech? If so, how do you compare them to the D-45? I'd be curious to see what you think a Crown at 3x the cost of the D-45 gets you.

[michael hurd]

"Having good woofer control doesn't require any speed
whatsoever. Having good resolution and detail on HF transients (guitar,
cymbals, bells) requires lots of speed. No contradiction at all there.
Any amp can be good at one, both or none of those. "

A damping factor of 50 is acceptable... and some amps have ridiculous claims here. Regardless, the damping factor is directly related to speaker wire gauge, length and output impedance. ( loop resistance )

There is a formula for determining if the slew rate is up to snuff... vs frequency. If you'd like to I can find it. Again, an often missunderstood specification.

[SWL]

Exactly what amps have you directly compared to your XTi in your own setup?

Hardly any. I just got the XTIs about a year ago. The "best" amp that I hooked up was an SAE MKII, 1975 vintage. On HF. The SAE didn't interface well with the active xover and had audible noise.

Don

Honk if you love Horns

Hi Don.........How do you have your XTI's set up? Are you bi-amping with them? If so, how would you compare the XTI's bi-amped using the DSP (delays etc.) vs. using the XTI as just an ordinary 2 channel amp?

[Don Richard]

Hi Don.........How do you have your XTI's set up? Are you bi-amping with them? If so, how would you compare the XTI's bi-amped using the DSP (delays etc.) vs. using the XTI as just an ordinary 2 channel amp?

I have not listened to the XTI full range on Khorns. I first bi-amped the system using a Crown XLS402 on LF and an XtI1000 on MF & HF, liked what I heard, then got another XTI and tri-amped. I'm using Khorn bass and K-400 MF with a Peavey HF, crossed @400 & 1200 using an analog xover. I'm using the XTI's DSP for limiting and delay. The 24 dB/octave crossover slopes along with MF & HF delays seem to reduce comb filtering quite a bit compared to a stock AA network. This seems to widen the sweet spot considerably. Time alignment improves the reproduction of transients such as snare and tom drum hits. The effect is subtle, not OMG!! But I like it.

Don

Honk if you love Horns

[SWL]

Hi Don.........How do you have your XTI's set up? Are you bi-amping with them? If so, how would you compare the XTI's bi-amped using the DSP (delays etc.) vs. using the XTI as just an ordinary 2 channel amp?

I have not listened to the XTI full range on Khorns. I first bi-amped the system using a Crown XLS402 on LF and an XtI1000 on MF & HF, liked what I heard, then got another XTI and tri-amped. I'm using Khorn bass and K-400 MF with a Peavey HF, crossed @400 & 1200 using an analog xover. I'm using the XTI's DSP for limiting and delay. The 24 dB/octave crossover slopes along with MF & HF delays seem to reduce comb filtering quite a bit compared to a stock AA network. This seems to widen the sweet spot considerably. Time alignment improves the reproduction of transients such as snare and tom drum hits. The effect is subtle, not OMG!! But I like it.

Don

Honk if you love Horns

Thanks Don. When I use my XTI as an ordinary 2 channel amp.........I'm not the least bit interested in it. When bi-amping using the DSP features I enjoy the results very much.[]

In fact.......isn't this how these amps are really intended to be used?

[Duke Spinner]

"

A damping factor of 50 is acceptable... and some amps have ridiculous claims here..

Now, Michael ...

It hurts me to correct You ..

but the published Output Impedance, I.E. ..Damping Factor .. say for a Crown Studio Reference ...

Really is ...

greater than 20,000 from 10 hz > 400 hz

and, Yes ..

it May make a difference

tell me you can't hear the difference between the Crown, and a tube amp ...?? [*-)]