Who here uses a pro amp to drive his speakers ?

[TheEAR]

I saw a while back a thread where some were using Crown's XTi amps to drive mains,who uses pro amps to drive mains ?

How do you compare these pro amps to the more classic home amps?

Thank you in advance for any input.

[SWL]

It has been determined here at the two-channel forum............that Crown XTI's are the world's finest amp for home/professional use.[]

But seriously.......I use XTI 2000's to power my RF-7's. The "bang for the buck" is there for sure IMO...........more than enough power to drive the 7's effectively and satisfies my craving for really rockin' hard but...................

The tubes I heard on the RF-7's (VRD's) were without a doubt more refined in many ways.........detail, soundstage, depth, imaging etc. etc.

[arfandbark]

I'm monoblocking PS 400s to my Cornwalls.

Happy I am. Montrose is playing as I type.

Not that I am right in the head.

Sure does sound good, though!

[Daddy Dee]

I have used QSC and Mackie, but not lately.

[colterphoto1]

I've use DC300IIA, DC150A, DC75A.

Next up- the mighty K2.

[kev313]

See what happens when you never get out of the sub forum? Your about 2 weeks too late on this question;-) Look around for any post over 20 pages within the last month or so.

[Coytee]

Kev is right ya know.

That said, I use two K2's on my Jubilees however, since I'm heading out on a vacation, I've sent one of them to Mark as loner duty so he can see what he thinks about it.

Might be worth noting that I sold my McIntosh MC-2102 that I also used on the Jubilees. My ears couldn't detect a multi-thousand dollar valued increase in the quality of the sound.

[mark1101]

I have been using Richard's Crown K2 amp and the thing rocks for sure. I like it. It is a much much better sounding amp than the Crown XTIs I had. It has a bit more high end than the XTI as well. It does not have the detail and soundstage of my tube equipment but it is really a fine sounding amp. I tried it on Lascalas and Jub clones so far. That power really wakes the speakers up more than the tubes can. I would venture to say most people would be perfectly happy with a Crown K2 in their home audio system.

[oldbuckster]

Coytee, No more MAC's or are you using different MAC's ?? Didn't you have TUBED MACS ? ..............

[cjgeraci]

Wow, TheEar venturing over into two channel. Me thinks that he is considering some new amps for future Palladiums............?

Ear, its a mixed bag with pro amps. The Crown XTi has been well received by those who have used its DSP to great advantage, but others in here have not liked the general sound of the amp, however. I have never heard one, but I think that the XTi is probably a good example of there are wide variety of different options, quality-wise, even within the realm of pro amps, which are only known for their durability (and not good sound).

I can tell you that I've been impressed with two particular pro amps. One is the QSC PLX, original series, which I have previously run with modded RF-7s and Belles. One now does bass bin duty with my Klipschorns. Very little glare or grain on the top end, and a pretty nice amp overall. Yes, the QSC PLX is one of those amps that has the lightweight switching supply, but while not quite as detailed as the best home amps, it is no slouch either. Aren't you grabbing some PLX2s for your sub? You should really try one of the them on your mains. You might be surprised.

Another example for me has been a Crown Powerline 4 from the '80s, which is almost identical to the PS400 mentioned above. I think Mark has called it previously a "real amp." Not quite as much detail as a Bryston, for example, but its pretty close. Very smooth on the top end (smoother than some classic home amps, in fact), and I've had one on my Belles for a couple of weeks now. Very surprising to me.

Carl.

[Speedball]

Hi Ear,

I've used a QSC PLX on my RF-7's and am really happy how it lights a fire under them. The only other thing I've used on them is an old Sonograph amp and it does not compare in ability to drive them.

[IndyKlipschFan]

I have, and use, the Mackie M800 series amps. I bought 2 of them, and have had no issues at all. I want to point out to some on here they are really really clean! Look at the specs below and drool compared to most commercial PA amps. By this, I mean, no noise at all. It sounds like your in a recording studio sound wise off of my mixing board, no hiss at all, and seems to give you all the notes from solid lows to extended highs too. Not harsh as well.

NOTE***. (This was before they all went overseas, and I have heard Mackie is just not the same.)

I have heard QSC amps as well with Klipsch, I think this is what Klipsch uses in Indy to test speakers etc etc.

If you can find one, a fantastic find.. Does have fan noise though, keep it away from close to you some, and you will be rewarded I promise. Mine are in a rack in a karaoke closet..

Used on Cornwall and La Scala speakers, they are fantastic! A solid 9 - 10+

Here is the info on them! Would be a GREAT find used IMO, with no regrets!

http://www.mackie.com/pdf/m800_ss.pdfhttp://www.mackie.com/pdf/m800_ss.pdf

Stereo 175 wpc @ 8 ohms

[PrestonTom]

Once I was lucky enough to hear some Altec cabinets (somewhat large ones) drive by an Altec amp. The amp was the 944? series.

It was in a large room and it was probably some of the best bass I have ever heard. We swapped around amps, and the sound was not replicated. You can find these on eBay, but they are old enough that they might need some freshening up.

Also on Altec speakers, I have heard some AB international Precedent series amps (400 and 600 perhaps with an LX suffix). Overall they sounded quite nice. These guys also show up on eBay and are quite a bargain.

My friendly advice is to not generalize across all "pro amps" and give some of them a listen. You might be in for a pleasant and inexpensive surprise.

-Tom

[Duke Spinner]

I have been using Richard's Crown K2 amp and the thing rocks for sure. I like it. It is a much much better sounding amp than the Crown XTIs I had. It has a bit more high end than the XTI as well. It does not have the detail and soundstage of my tube equipment but it is really a fine sounding amp. I tried it on Lascalas and Jub clones so far. That power really wakes the speakers up more than the tubes can. I would venture to say most people would be perfectly happy with a Crown K2 in their home audio system.

The K1 / 2 .. uses the Studio Reference front end, with a less sophisticated, higher impedance output section

[Duke Spinner]

It just occurred to me to wonder----when did Crown get bought by Harmon?

Crown got " Harmonized " ... last year

[mike stehr]

http://www.mdaudio.co.kr/bbs/zboard.php?id=a&page=1&sn1=&divpage=1&sn=off&ss=on&sc=on&select_arrange=name&desc=desc&no=33

[TheEAR]

Well ,very interesting...here ...I have eight pro amps ordered ...here are the first three...that arrived! []

QSC goodness...all made in the USA

Now this is a bruiser, 2500W per channel into a 4 Ohm load, 8KW bridged into a 4 Ohm load !

None other than the PowerLight PL380...

I will get another PL380,another PLX2,a RMX5050 and two Crown iTech 4000 and 8000.

All will be used...for sub duty.But I will test tem driving my Klipsch and Dyanudio mains.

Here are the drivers that will be fed...by the PowerLight PL380...

Not your gramma speakers...Acoupower's 18" ...

Now these monoblocks are only 15W..OTL's...here Zu speakers will be matched...

[michael hurd]

How do you compare these pro amps to the more classic home amps?

They have an exceptionally low cost per watt. A Crown Xti 1000 is about 75-cents per watt. A low-end home audio amp will start around $5 per watt and quickly go up from there.

There are no free lunches. To make an amp for 75 cents a watt, takes a careful attention to cost. Many pro amps are now using switching power supplies because they greatly reduce cost, size and weight of packaging, the cost of shipping, and the cost of power. But these supplies most often have sacrificed performance. Being lightwesight can be a virtue, but not if it is sacrificing performance.

The 75-cent per watt amp will be using 5-cent electrolytics in the signal path compared to audio amps which might use a $25 (Jensen PIO, e.g.) cap in a signal path, but certainly a $2 film cap. This is all hidden inside - very few people will be taking it apart to discover all this. A 75 cent per watt amp will use low end slow speed OpAmps, the home audio amp will use discretes or high speed high end OpAmps. The 75 cent per watt amp will make use of cheap connectors, mass terminated wire assemblies, and other super low cost manufacturing techniques. The home audio amp will often use gold connectors, hand soldered wire and other techniques to improve signal interface. Again, this is all hidden. Parts quality in general is the very lowest on the 75 cent per watt amps, and is the very highest in a high end home audio amp. This applies to potentiometers, switches, caps, transformers, discretes and more.

To the extent one believes that the only thing worth comparing about amps is the "specs" - these low cost PA amps look great on paper. They claim high power and low distortion. But, you need to dig deeper into these amps to see what "high power" means, and what "low distortion" means. The short path to comparison is simply listening to them.

An amp like the XTi 1000 simply lacks the basic resolving power of even the lowest-end home audio amps. Which is to say, power aside, it doesn't even sound as good as a $200 Best Buys receiver. However, if you intend to play them so loud your ears are ringing (or bleeding), then the sound quality is not a factor, and these are great bargains. If you are making a home PA system, this IS the sound you want.

Engineers are no dummies. In a PA setting, like a baseball park, how many people in the stands are actively concerned about sound quality? Likewise at a wedding reception or big Karaoke bar, who really cares about the "inner detail of the midrange?" No one. So, why design all that extra cost into a PA amp? It would be senseless and bad engineering to boot! A tractor and a sedan are both "vehicles" but it would be absurd to use the same design principles for each. John Deere would be out of business in a heartbeat trying to make a tractor drive like a BMW. And if BMW made a sedan that could pull a 60-foot harrow, it probably wouldn't do well on the autobahn. So, when people hear the word "amplifier" why do they think the design principles are all the same?

If hand soldered joints by vestigal virgins is your thing all the power to you. Enter in wave soldering the most reliable soldering method on the planet. NO cold solder joints. Used by companies for consistency.

I challenge you to hear a difference in using PIO caps vs electrolytics in an amp circuit, same amps level matched, same speakers double blind test.

"The short path to comparison is simply listening to them." Well if you can hear the difference in connectors now I have a $ 100 bill that says you can't tell on a double blind comparison what speaker / amp uses a Neutrik speak-on vs. a barrier strip connection.

[jt1stcav]

Who's using a pro amp to drive his speakers here?

Not me!

I have nothing against pro amps for home use if that's your thing. But I'd rather use designs that are specifically targeted for consumer loudspeakers. Even the DIY 15" subwoofer I had years ago was driven first by two Carver amps each bridged to mono (no, not Carver Professional), and then later by an SAE power amp.

[TheEAR]

Mike,

To some point I agree,the audiophile amps are part hoopla ...part reality. There are sonic gains ,simply not as BIG as many would like them to be.

A very high quality pro amp like the iTech8000 or PL380 is transparent and cannot be compared to a PA amp.Tube amps as we know almost roll off and deform the original signal..this deformation is a plus to our ears.