OT: Spinal Fusion: Good or Bad? Experiences?

[fini]

Hey there!

I saw the ortho doc yesterday, and he thinks a fusion of three vertebraes (two bad discs) would help me. I've got pain on the right side, going down the back of my leg, sometimes completely debilitating. Taking pain meds, which I'd like to stop (when I don't need them). Of course, losing 50-80 pounds would do me a world of good, too. I suppose getting in shape would make sense regardless.

I'm just embarking on research, and trying to develop a game plan. I've had degenerative disc disease for 10 years (I'll be 53 on 8/10). The latest Xrays/MRI show some pretty nasty osteophites, and pretty much bone-on-bone down south in the lumbar area. There are also growths pushing into the spinal column. Nasty!

So, experiences?

[JerolW]

Hi Fini,

I had a surgery for a ruptured disc in 2004, and in Mar of this year I ruptured another disc.

Saw the surgeon last week and he recommended surgery for this one also.

The problem I'm having with the 2004 surgery is not problems with the disc or

bone spurs but with scar tissue.

I did not have the fussion, just the removal of bone and disc.

But the resulting scar tissue, in my case, is just as painful as the original injury.

I don't think I will have surgery again unless I can't get relief from physical therapy.

regards,

jerol

p.s. Google 'Dermatome Map'

[Duke Spinner]

get the right surgeon, things will be good ..

recovery is pretty dam quick these days

[fenderbender]

Join the club!!! They were talking that about me three years back....but I don't think mine was nearly as advanced as your's in...I was able to opt for therapy and all is pretty good now.....except .......the pain I was feeling in my leg (my old ortho said it was my L4-L5 pinching nerves) was not from my back at all!!!

just came back from a knee specialist....advanced osteoarthritis of the left knee!!!! nasty spurs and almost bone on bone....I can't believe my former OP didn't catch it .

So I will try to manage it for as long as I can but I will need a complete knee replacement.....I have to drop 75 lbs...mind you I'm at 7-8% body fat @275....so no more lifting...just swimming, yoga, body-weight exercises.....and starving for 5-6 months !!

as far as the fusion goes...when the pain is so constant that your life is ruled by meds...it's time.....do yourself a favor and lose the weight before the operation...it will speed recovery 10 fold.......

[LarryC]

Bummer, Gregg! My best wishes to you, and maybe we'll get to see you next summer!

Larry

[Daddy Dee]

Gregg,

Sorry to hear of you facing this. I've got a friend in Dallas who has had this surgery with some improvement over his situation.

Hey, your BD is Oct 8th?

[fini]

Hey, your BD is Oct 8th?

Yes sir! Born on my Dad's 33rd birthday!

[Daddy Dee]

Now that's cool. I only know one other person born on a parent's BD.

[colterphoto1]

Greg, trust the doctors. It doesn't sound like a lot of fun but neither does living with constant pain. You're in my prayers buddy.

[fini]

Now that's cool. I only know one other person born on a parent's BD.

Dee, what's weird is my (maternal) uncle was born on my grandfather's (his dad's) birthday!

Michael, thank you!

[boom3]

I had a C5/C6 disk trim in 1995 and a C5/C6 fusion in 2002. The disk trim is indeed the "least invasive". But it is not a permanent fix. I had a recurrence of problems on my right side after the disk trim. I was looking at losing control of my right arm and hand. I am glad I had the fusion and wished I had got it done in 95. I still have a degree of stiffness and pain in the neck and shoulder, but nothing Aleve and my massage therapist can't mediate. Some docs will tell you that fused vertabrae are more liable to get arthritic. Some say that at our age, arthritis is a "fact of life" and there is no correlation between fusions and sites of arthritic problems.

The weight is a very significant issue. I am 5 9 and I am carrying about 50 lbs more than I should. i will also be 53 soon. It gets harder as we get older to shed weight and stay active. It is easier to curl up in front of the Corns (or whatever) and be a Klipsch potato.

[fini]

boom3,

How long was your recovery from the fusion? I've read mention of 6 weeks of bed rest, and 6-9 months of no work (or extremely light work). That would make it difficult to afford, and real tough on my family. Mostly, it would be a drag to have to stay home and listen to music all day...[]

[boom3]

I had a cervical fusion, so that is a diff scene than a lumbar. I was at home for 4 ( or was it 6?) weeks; no driving. I was not in bed beyond the first day home from the hsopital, but spent a lot of time on the couch propped up with a cervical collar on. I used the hard collar the first two weeks and a soft collar thereafter. I was told to "take it easy" (no heavy lifting, no positions of stress on the neck, no roller coasters etc) for at least 3 months. I am an office worker so that was easy to do. I will never have full lateral mobility of the neck again, but that was a small price to pay.

Again, with a lumbar fusion, YMMV considerably. A pal had a L1-L2 disk trim and was home for 2 weeks, no driving. He has had no recurrence of problems.

[RT FAN]

I had surgery for a ruptured disc in 1989 resulting from a hit and run car accident and was told at the time I was too young for fusion as scar tissue would fill in. There was a mention of a decrease in flexibility but I am sure things have improved over the last 2 decades. I would second Duke's recommendation regarding finding the right surgeon. Only one name came up when I was looking, MD Patrick O'Leary, who at the time was the head of spinal surgery at Lenox Hill as well as the the Hospital for Special Surgery here in NYC. When I met with him I was told that one of his associates could perform the surgery within a month, as this was considered a routine operation, but to wait for him would be six months. I always remembered the line from MASH: "it always pays to wait for the head barber." So I opted to wait.

One of his aides told me he really didn't do this kind of operation anymore, "He's trying to make paralyzed people walk again." I considered myself fortunate and I really wanted the best available guy considering it was MY spine we were talking about. Needless to say the operation was a success and I would be better off if I hadn't put on 30 lbs in the time since.

A few years after my operation I was watching the news conference regarding the injured NY Jets defensive lineman Dennis Byrd and who was up at the podium but MD Patrick O'Leary! You could say I was in good hands. The moral of the story? Like in building a stereo put your money in the speakers, and get the best surgeon you can! Good luck and best wishes for a quick recovery. Oh, there will be no moving of Klipsch Heritage speakers during your recovery!

[tigerwoodKhorns]

Fini,

Sorry to hear about your situation. The bone to bone situation probbaly needs surgery.

FWIW, I fell off of a ladder and injured my back. I went in for a series of cortizone injections in my spine. I was told that I would always have pain and that walking would be difficult. My wife had me go to physical therapy. The pain is almost gone. I get up and sit in a massage chair in the morning. Then do crunches and leg lifts with stretching. Keeps everything under control and I do not have pain, can hike, swim, ride dirt bikes, etc.

I also went to the best doctor in town. It was the same guy who treated Roy from Sigfreed abd Roy when the tiger incident happened. I told him that certain exercises that stretch my hamstring seem to really minimize the pain. He told me to stop working out instead of sending me to physical therapy. So the moral is go to the best doctor and be pushy and investigate on your own.

Good luck with yoru back.

Chris

[oscarsear]

I have had degenerative bone disease since my 20's and I'm 55 now. In 2000 I had a fusion and plating of C4,5 & 6. Went into surgery with a lot of pain on the R side and came out paralyzed in both arms and more pain. This was a Harvard trained neurosurgeon with a huge practice and a grand reputation. The permanent paralysis recovered but is positional on the R. The pain, spasms, etc... on the R have permanently disabled me.

Since I have had 2 other surgeries. I had a shoulder A/C decompression for bone spurs/arthritis on the L and I had what is called a discotomy at L4. I had a ruptured disc between L4 and 5. Instead of fusing they went in opened up a corridor and cleaned out the rupture leaving the balance of the disc in place. I had to do nothing for quite awhile so that the disc could scar over and not be weak where it was reamed. No lifting or bending for 6 weeks. Pain wise the shoulder surgery was far worse than the discotomy. But I did have to rehab the back, lose weight and all those fun things.

I do not know what the status of you back is but my spinal MRI reads like a train wreck after a plane crash. After the mess of my cervical fusion I did not want another fusion. The neurologist recommended this procedure and is was much better and, in my case, more successful. A simple out-patient procedure and downright cheap compared to the alternative. The discotomy may not be a choice for you but if it is I'd recommend it.

Next is hand surgery on both sides and a L shoulder replacement. I really dread the shoulder surgery.

[fini]

So the moral is go to the best doctor and be pushy and investigate on your own.

Chris, thank you! How, though, do you find the "best doctor?" I googled the doc I saw on Wednesday (Robert Harf), but found really no useful info (there are some for-fee sites, but who knows what they'd tell).

[fini]

oscarear,

Thank you, and I feel for you! You have been through a Hell of a lot, my friend. I really appreciate your medical knowledge (aren't you a nurse?), and your willingness to help others.

[gonzp]

Fini,

Rosalie, my wife, had to have her third back surgery a few years ago. She weht with a fairly new technology (at the time) "minimally invasive spine surgery" Her recovery time was about 1/2 of what is normal. I would definatly look into this surgery.

One of my best friend's is a Physical Therapist with 20+ years and he was astounded as to how fast Rosalie recovered from this surgery! Good luck.

[Gilbert]

Yes, my mom and I both have bad backs. Both affected in the lumbar region.

I'm holding out, but underwent a relatively minor (only 2 bad disc) procedure pronounced something like this: "Automated Kymopapain Disectomy", it was very new at the time, and a friend of the family and Neurosurgeon, performed the surgery. Dr. Frank Anders, in Louisiana. That was almost 18 years ago. I still consider the procedure successful, but to a limited extent. I say this because I still feel the pain from prolonged sitting or lifting more than a sack of cement, 94 lbs., using my knees of course. It lets you know it's there, but at least I'm not crawling around on my hands and knees like I use to have to do. Yes, it hurt that bad at the age of 27... I'll spare you the details of my crazy active lifestyle that got me there.

My mom on the other hand has had it rough. Over the course of about 10 to 15 years, multiple spinal fusions, titanium rods, etc., etc. I thnk it's 5 vertebra fused to date. All within the area you refered to as from the lumbar region & south. Her results are NOT GOOD. Recovery period is looong, and loooonger. The results in her words wer "only minor improvement", and they never lasted. Today, at 74 yrs, she lives on pain pills to make it through the day. This is a woman who could take serious pain w/o medication, trust me, she was never weak and could endure. To see her in this current state kills me. Her doctor's were reportedly the best Ortho's. One from Houston, Tx, another from San Antonio, Tx. I will not mention their names, for obvious reasons, and I would never recommend them. I'm sure they are experienced doctors... but today, when I talk to my mom about it, she tells me that when my time comes, to be sure and get a neurosurgeon. She has said this to me many times. She spent 50 yrs experience as a Hospital RN & Health Educator. She loved her work, and well..... there you have my experience with the matter.

Good luck Fini, I know how you feel. Back pain sucks.