Storm Evac Blues

[boom3]

I did not want to break into Groomlake's thread, so this is a new one.

I ran from one storm (Opal in 1995). I didn't need to, but it was a Cat 5 before it moved onshore and I was living on the water (albeit on a sheltered lake). I was lucky to shelter in a high school and I was back home the next day. I found a motel with shade to park at until I heard a home-wise route was open (the sawhorses had been run over, so it was "open"). There were hundreds of other, hot, miserable, angry people sweltering on the highway, arguing with the LE about not being let back in.

Some of my friends, who ran from Katrina, anre now saying they will not evac again. This is exactly what the authorities have feared. "Cry wolf" (as it is perceived) and next time, people will not leave even when the danger is very real.

This evac went better, and everything up to the return phase went as well as could be expected. The return for New Orleans was marred, as usual, by mayor Nagin's incompetence and waffling.

Bottom line, there has to be a better way to get a large number of people out of a metro area. Trains, planes, and automobiles are all very fine, but what about ships? A cruise ship, even a small one, can haul 2,000 people, and probably 5,000 with suitable modifications. Granted, they are not fast, and they would have to be prepositioned. But they would take some of the strain off people fleeing and sitting traffic for hours, idling away their gas, and getting heat stressed (particularly dangerous for pets).

At laest one was used for essential responders at New Orleans after Katrina.

Part of our bail-out set are chemical cold packs. We bought a case from Amazon. They could prevent heat stroke in us or the cats if we're in that situation.

Another lesson learned is don't depend on the interstates alone. Plan, and test-drive, an alternate route to get you where you want to go.

I knew the roads in south AL and so I was not caught at the Penscola I-10 bridge in Opal. If folks had mapped out alternate routes, they would not have gotten into the 20 mile jam between Biloxi and Mobile this time. BTW, I-10 dives under Mobile bay in a tunnel that has no emergency lanes.

[CECAA850]

We live in southeast TX and also had a mandatory evacuation due to Gustav. We stayed through Rita and took a direct hit from her. My wife now works for an assisted living group. Due to the enormous effort it takes to evacuate such a facility, they had to leave early. Even leaving early, it took them over 12 hours to travel 300 miles. They were stopped dead in traffic several times. My wife was pretty frazzled by the time they got there (Dallas). 2 of my daughters stayed home with me as we watched TV and the computer simulations available on the net. We (thankfully) ended up with a non-event here. Going through the normal evacuation process can be a slow and grueling process.

Carl.

[InnerTuber]

I'd think the cost to evac and be wrong on a cruise ship would very high. Plus, the waves these storms spin off can be scary. I really am guessing here, but even an aircraft carrier would try to dodge a hurricane, especially a cat 4 or 5, wouldn't it?

To sail away and find the storm changed course and god forbid sink the dang ship would probably be a bankruptcy. Being on the water is probably the last place I'd want to be. Hard to outrun a storm is severe waves.

Storm forecasting is ... reasonable, but often wrong. We never know where to head until it's close and are fortunate to know enough back roads to get around. I fully agree there on alternate routes. Sitting in gridlock is ultra stressful. Burning up and running out of gas.

I try to view it as the price one pays to live on/near the water. Personally, I'm a lot more concerned about the tidal surges than the wind and rain. 15 feet of water, even if it recedes quickly is something I don't want to be watching from my rooftop. That said I'm not sure I'd want to sit through 150 mph winds either. Bad choices.

The sky is falling!

[WS65711]

........................................ what about ships? A cruise ship, even a small one, can haul 2,000 people, and probably 5,000 with suitable modifications. Granted, they are not fast, and they would have to be prepositioned. But they would take some of the strain off people fleeing and sitting traffic for hours, idling away their gas, and getting heat stressed (particularly dangerous for pets).

Yeah, all of the fine upstanding citizens that inhabited the Superdome during Katrina would certainly make excellent cruise ship passengers........................ [bs] [bs] [bs]

[fenderbender]

A captain and crew I knew of a 120ft dive boat Peter Hughs the wave dancer...sunk with all 14 on board as they rode out a cat 3 off of honduras...three years earlier a windjammer vessel lost all 31 crew during hurricane mitch...a cat 4

I for one would not want to be in the gulf when a cat 4 is coming at you.

[boom3]

........................................ what about ships? A cruise ship, even a small one, can haul 2,000 people, and probably 5,000 with suitable modifications. Granted, they are not fast, and they would have to be prepositioned. But they would take some of the strain off people fleeing and sitting traffic for hours, idling away their gas, and getting heat stressed (particularly dangerous for pets).

Yeah, all of the fine upstanding citizens that inhabited the Superdome during Katrina would certainly make excellent cruise ship passengers........................

I can't abide this uninformed libel. Those people had no options. They weren't sitting safe in gated communities north of the lake in west St. Tammany or Tangy (I I assume you are in Covington, LA) . They were forcibly sent to the Dome and the Convention Center because the city government had NO plan of any value and no supplies for them. They were driven to desperation by the desperate conditions. BTW, most of what was reported on the news about their behavior at the Dome was not true. They are citizens, New Orleanians and Americans, and they deserved better.

How would you like the National Guard to pull you off the streets at gunpoint, notwithstanding your plea that you have a stable shelter at home and pets or family members to care for, and take you to a concentration camp with no toilets, food or water, and a leaking roof? I hope you're never in that situation, Mr.Smug, because then your perspective will change.

[Johnlw7]

It makes me sick too when jerks make derragtory comments towards the less fortunate.I worked in the construction trades after katrina and it puts things in perspective.95% of people in gated communities would have cried like the little woosies.

[WS65711]

I can't abide this uninformed libel. Those people had no options. They weren't sitting safe in gated communities north of the lake in west St. Tammany or Tangy (I I assume you are in Covington, LA) . They were forcibly sent to the Dome and the Convention Center because the city government had NO plan of any value and no supplies for them. They were driven to desperation by the desperate conditions. BTW, most of what was reported on the news about their behavior at the Dome was not true. They are citizens, New Orleanians and Americans, and they deserved better.

How would you like the National Guard to pull you off the streets at gunpoint, notwithstanding your plea that you have a stable shelter at home and pets or family members to care for, and take you to a concentration camp with no toilets, food or water, and a leaking roof? I hope you're never in that situation, Mr.Smug, because then your perspective will change.

Those people had options. The option was to depend on themselves, and not on government. But that of course goes against everything they're accustomed to. They've been taught to depend on government for everything, for all of their lives.

Please provide your source for your statement concerning the National Guard "pulling you off the streets at gunpoint". I know many that served in the Guard here during Katrina, and I know better.

I lived in New Orleans until 1996. Marc Morial told me to leave, and I obeyed. I then lived in Metairie thru Katrina. Aaron Broussard then convinced me to leave due to his utter ignorance.

"Mr. Smug"................ I don't recall calling anyone names, why don't you grow up?

[Johnlw7]

Yeah good ol' GWB sat on his hands while a city drown.A lot of people did not have the means to leave.Especially the elderly and sick.You ddin't go through anything.I bet you didn't volunteer one hour to help your community.Walk a mile in someone elses shoes.Or you might be wearing them someday.You know better!all you know is what you saw on your big screen sitting in your Lazyboy.

[boom3]

WS65711,

No, those people came from a culture of broken promises, aided by our Federal Government and local corruption. If you took Marc Morial seriously, then you bought into it to. I know several people-white and middle-class, if that increases their cred with you-that were rounded up by the Guard even though they had shelter and dragged off to the Dome. Some elderly relatives and some pets were then left to fend for themselves and some died. Several people who rode out the debacle in the Quarter told me they hid from the Guard for this very reason. I'm not blaming the Guard, they were following orders-poorly conceived ones.

Stay on the northsore, OK? We're trying to rebuild a city "down here" and after Nagin is gone, there is a glimmer of hope that we can do that. We don't need people repeating slander, the facts are bad enough.

[picky]

Not to illustrate my personal sentiment on the matter but I spotted this cartoon from this morning's newspaper by Jeff Koterba:

[WS65711]

Stay on the northsore, OK? We're trying to rebuild a city "down here" and after Nagin is gone, there is a glimmer of hope that we can do that. We don't need people repeating slander, the facts are bad enough.

Northsore??? Oh, you mean Northshore. Ok, I'll stay. As you get a little older you'll probably begin to realize that you eventually reach a point where you have to do what you feel is best for your family. Even if that means moving from where you've lived all of your life.

BTW, I lived in Orleans Parish from 1953 thru 1996. The first two homes I bought were there. When asked, I told people I lived in New Orleans. I didn't say "Gulf Coast". I had nothing to hide. Are you not proud of where you live? Or do you actually live in New Orleans?

[Dflip]

Picky, they might have to add Ike to that list on that cartoon. We are probably a day from the five day forecast on landfall on the gulf coast. It looks like it is going to pass within 100 miles, it just depends which systems will move it a bit.

It's not easy, Katrina, they should have left, they could have ridden out the storm with Gustov, with Ike? All it would take with Gustov or Ike is a 20 mile shift in the last hour and the minimal flooding in New Orleans with Gustov would have been replaced with water over the levee on the lake to the north and maybe the western levees letting go. The difference is between a good decision that may have saved your life and a real pain trying to get out of town and then waiting to get back in. If you guess right, wonderful, if you guess wrong, you either wasted your money or maybe you're dead. There were too many hurricanes that people were able to ride out before Katrina, so the population was getting pretty brave. Then reality hit. That's the huge risk.

[dtel]

Just got back home in the last hour, we did not have to be gone so long but we had a nice cabin in the mountains for a week. It worked out well because we just got electricity back 2 days ago, a tree fell on the power line down the street.

I have lived in New Orleans, the North shore and now Picayune Mississippi, not much difference when a cat 3 or more is heading this way ! It cost $ and is a pain to evacuate, but after you see with your own eyes what destruction is done, why would you want to stay ? I would drive North and sleep in the car then go back if I never had money for anything else !

We came back two days after Katrina, and sat here for a long 2 weeks with no electricity and made due, and at the same time thinking every day how lucky we were to at least have a house and be alive!

[CECAA850]

Just got back home in the last hour, we did not have to be gone so long but we had a nice cabin in the mountains for a week. It worked out well because we just got electricity back 2 days ago, a tree fell on the power line down the street.

I have lived in New Orleans, the North shore and now Picayune Mississippi, not much difference when a cat 3 or more is heading this way ! It cost $ and is a pain to evacuate, but after you see with your own eyes what destruction is done, why would you want to stay ? I would drive North and sleep in the car then go back if I never had money for anything else !

We came back two days after Katrina, and sat here for a long 2 weeks with no electricity and made due, and at the same time thinking every day how lucky we were to at least have a house and be alive!

Ready to go back?

We're watching Ike with a wary eye. My wife especially as they have to leave SO early when a threat arises.

[dtel]

Yes, always ready, but it looks like it may go to Texas ?

[CECAA850]

Yes, always ready, but it looks like it may go to Texas ?

I like to think that the track will change as it gets closer. My house is in the middle of where the "cone of uncertanty" would be if it doesn't deviate from it's current path.

[WS65711]

I like to think that the track will change as it gets closer. My house is in the middle of where the "cone of uncertanty" would be if it doesn't deviate from it's current path.

"Don't pay any attention to that red line down the middle............."

[Groomlakearea51]

"Don't pay any attention to that red line down the middle............."

Yah' gotta' love it!!! That's too funny!!!

The bad thing about "evac" is some of us (and our families) can't evac. We are required by our jobs to "ride it out". The only way I can evac Katrina and the kids (yes.... my wife's name is Katrina...) is if it's a Cat-4+, otherwise she has to stay as well due to her job. Evac is a massive (and expensive...) undertaking. Florida is, fortunately, probably the most organized and prepared for the evac scenarios. Gov. Bush (JEB) spent his 2 tours of duty setting up food & water cache's, routes, rehearsals, etc. and Gov Crist holds the same "take it very seriously" view. We have major conferences, "wargames", etc in the spring every year just to get ready for the season. It's a pain for everyone, but the reality of the current 25 year "cycle" is upon us. Then again back in 92' everyone was fat, dumb and happy as the old expression goes, and Andrew handed South Florida's head to them on a plate.... I was deployed to Homestead AFB after Andrew and to be honest, other than the war zones in Bosnia I saw in 96-97, the destruction was complete (including the upscale "nice" neighborhoods). There were telephone poles sticking out from the sides of buildings, dangerous animals from the Miami Zoo running around all over the place, etc. Once you have a Cat-3 or above come over your hovel.... you generally tend to get very tense every time a dust storm leaves the Sahara. Eventually in a couple years, if all goes right, we are going to "evac" permanently..... Back to Arkansas, somewhere up in the hills.... I can easily trade the 3-4 months of mild winters for the 3-4 months of extreme stress that these storms put me and family through. Tropical Paradise? Well sorta', but it's getting too dangerous.

[dtel's wife]

"Don't pay any attention to that red line down the middle............."

Yah' gotta' love it!!! That's too funny!!!

The bad thing about "evac" is some of us (and our families) can't evac. We are required by our jobs to "ride it out". The only way I can evac Katrina and the kids (yes.... my wife's name is Katrina...) is if it's a Cat-4+, otherwise she has to stay as well due to her job. Evac is a massive (and expensive...) undertaking. Florida is, fortunately, probably the most organized and prepared for the evac scenarios. Gov. Bush (JEB) spent his 2 tours of duty setting up food & water cache's, routes, rehearsals, etc. and Gov Crist holds the same "take it very seriously" view. We have major conferences, "wargames", etc in the spring every year just to get ready for the season. It's a pain for everyone, but the reality of the current 25 year "cycle" is upon us. Then again back in 92' everyone was fat, dumb and happy as the old expression goes, and Andrew handed South Florida's head to them on a plate.... I was deployed to Homestead AFB after Andrew and to be honest, other than the war zones in Bosnia I saw in 96-97, the destruction was complete (including the upscale "nice" neighborhoods). There were telephone poles sticking out from the sides of buildings, dangerous animals from the Miami Zoo running around all over the place, etc. Once you have a Cat-3 or above come over your hovel.... you generally tend to get very tense every time a dust storm leaves the Sahara. Eventually in a couple years, if all goes right, we are going to "evac" permanently..... Back to Arkansas, somewhere up in the hills.... I can easily trade the 3-4 months of mild winters for the 3-4 months of extreme stress that these storms put me and family through. Tropical Paradise? Well sorta', but it's getting too dangerous.

Groomy,

I don't feel so "whiney" after reading your post. In fact, I find great solitude in knowing that you feel the same way I do. After experiencing the devastation caused by Katrina, and the near miss we took as a result I have been seriously panicked everytime a "dust storm" heads across the Atlantic. After Katrina I couldn't figure out how we would even get enough telephone poles to replace the downed ones.

Spending a week in the Smokies after evacuating for Gustav apparently has enlightened dtel about the stress caused by these storms. I have told him that I can not continue to live like this. Packing our most valuable belongings...pictures, picture CDs, jewelry, important papers and kids....and not knowing what will be left when we come home. Not that I put a lot of emphasis on material things, but I do consider having a roof over my head an essential need.

We also plan to permanently evac somewhere in the TN, NC or Virginia area in the next three or so years. I will gladly trade the mild winters (I would prefer snow three or four times a year) for the three or four months of stress hurricane season brings on. We have visited the Smoky Mountain area numerous times over the last thirty years and it has become one of our favorite places to vacation. I do love living in the south, but I will gladly trade it all to have four seasons a year and no threats of hurricanes three or four months out of the year.

Experiencing Hurricane Betsy while living in New Orleans at the age of five years old and living in Slidell, LA, age fourteen, when Hurricane Camille hit the Gulf Coast combined with the devastation Katrina caused is enough to stress anyone when "a dust storm leaves the Sahara".