tromprof Posted September 11, 2008 Share Posted September 11, 2008 Hi, I have a wonderful sounding pair of 1976 K-horns that I have had for around a year. I am also lucky enough to have a nicely proportioned room for them. I am currently running them with an 200 watt Adcom 555 amp and matching preamp. The k-horns are so efficient that I barely need to turn the volume up to get a decent volume. I have read a number of posts about the wonders of matching a good quality tube amp to the horns and am thinking of giving it a try. I don't have any complaints about the Adcom stuff, but then again I have nothing to compare it to with the horns. I selected the Adcom when my main speakers were Tannoy System 12 studio monitors (I still have them). I am a professional musician and listen to a lot of orchestral music and like to be able to hear what detail is present on a recording, which the Adcom did seem to provide for me with the Tannoys over other amps like a Sony ES amp that I had before. I have been doing some reading on these forums and looking around elsewhere on the web and tube stuff all seems quite expensive so it seems if I go this route I will probably be looking at an integrated amp. There are a number of smaller makers of tube stuff I have no experience with before. There seems to be a fair amount of JoLida brand equipment on the used market (a JD-202 is listed on Ebay right now). There is a company in Canada selling a class A "Bewitch" brand amp new on Ebay and they have good feedback, though I am very wary of something like this without someone with actual expereince with it saying it's ok. Also Parts Express near me in Dayton, OH sells a couple of "Nuera" brand amps. They are a reliable outfit and I could return it if they were any problems, though the amps are $748.00. My budget is in the $500-700 range. Any advice would be appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hifi jim Posted September 11, 2008 Share Posted September 11, 2008 In your budget I would suggest a vintage Scott integrated, such as the 222 or 299. I have a 222 that is wonderful sounding. The vintage amps were made with better quality parts and transformers than the new gear in that price range. Many say the transformers from the 50's and 60's are the best ever. Craig of NOSValves.com is a forum member here and rebuilds vintage tube gear. He, along with many forum members here, love the Scott tube gear. After much reading and research, I too bought a Scott amp and now I understand what the hype is about. A vintage tube amp will need a rebuild, unless you are lucky to find one rebuilt already on Craigs website or here in the Garage forum. Be leery of any eBay'er selling what they claim to be a "ready to go" amp. Most all need some repair on top of the $300-400 selling price. $500-700 should buy a nicely restored Scott. In addition, they have a wonderful phono section, tone controls and loudness, unheard of in modern gear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted September 11, 2008 Share Posted September 11, 2008 Craig of NOSValves.com is a forum member here and rebuilds vintage tube gear! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenderbender Posted September 11, 2008 Share Posted September 11, 2008 I think you would be very happy with a scott.....more so than one of the modern versions you mentioned be carful .....you are headed down the slippery slope " gee I wonder what it would sound like with Telefunkens?"....If that sounds good I wonder what a 300b SET would sound like........ OK, I'm projecting my own hell........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrestonTom Posted September 11, 2008 Share Posted September 11, 2008 What is it specifically that you do not like about the Adcom GFA 555? I used to run one with my Klipschorns, and I thought it was a great amp. I had the version 2 and I added bypass caps on the power supply caps. However, that modification mainly impacted the bass (made it more solid and clean sounding). -Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebes Posted September 11, 2008 Share Posted September 11, 2008 Sorry, nothing to add or contribute. Just had to check in, though, to mention just how much I enjoy, respect and appreciate the knowledge Tom Preston brings to this forum. Not to mention he's always on topic, something almost none of us can claim. At times, almost a contrarian to established wisdom, a trait I find not only refreshing but well worthy of consideration. When Tom speaks pay attention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tromprof Posted September 11, 2008 Author Share Posted September 11, 2008 I actually have nothing against the Adcom stuff that I know about, I am really going on what I have read here at the forum about the positives of tubes. My current setup is reliable and sounds great, but that said aren't tubes supposed to be even better? What I would like if possible is even more clarity and instruments sounding even more true. I know a lot is up to the recording quality, and I have never heard a recording that sounds like the real thing in orchestral music, even live recordings I have been in. But as one who sits in an orchestra I know up close and personal what the instruments sound like. It seems like the stuff that sounds the best on my system is heavily produced and electronic. If tubes would provide that extra level of clarity to acoustic instruments is what I am after.. Thanks for the advice so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenderbender Posted September 11, 2008 Share Posted September 11, 2008 Tubes aren't better, just different.......and just like there are many flavors of SS amps there are many flavors of tube amps. The best amps have the positives of both worlds....the descriptor "It sounds tubey" can be taken both ways........some tube amps really lack the tight bass slam and fast response of SS amps, leaving the bass flat. while some SS amps sound harsh and clinical in the higher registers , tubes can "roll off " and "warm up" the treble. Some like this, others think that it is adding coloration that is not in the recording. One amp that is often touted as having the best of both world are the NOS vale VRD's...and then there are people that will fight to the death swearing that a Mac 275 sounds better. Personally i love a good SS amp...reliable , no maintenance, they work until they don't..... It is very subjective and the best amp is the one that sounds best to you, no matter what anyone else thinks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ctiger2 Posted September 11, 2008 Share Posted September 11, 2008 I currently run my Khorns w/MC30's with good results. I've run them with SS MC2505 also with good results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcmusic Posted September 11, 2008 Share Posted September 11, 2008 Before I went to an SET amp, I ran my K-horns with a Scott 299 rebuilt by Craig at NOS Valves. Absolutely a wonderful sounding amp, I still have it today in my vintage system. Jay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundbound Posted September 12, 2008 Share Posted September 12, 2008 I've owned vintage. It's good, but you have to restore them which cost $. While vintage sounds good with their famous old transformers and all, I found new to sound as good and better. You can still get good deals on eBay. I won this new one for $100 plus $70 for shipping insurance with free ground shipping. It took three months to arrive from Hong Kong, but I was in no hurry. I just received it a few days ago and love it. It sounds good with my small home built monitors and my Klipschorns. Better than my vintage Mint Fisher X-100 that sold on eBay for $980 two years ago. I did sell my Fisher with all working original tubes, all new JJ tubes, New Fisher Doctor rebuild kit and nice cabinet, but would still rather have this new one. I bought it from this seller direct link below, but there's more eBay all new tube component sellers over seas that are offering free shipping. They up the insurance cost some, but it's still well worth the deal you get. Trust me! I use SS with my Klipschorns and it sounds real good to me! I just wanted some tubes again for some more flavor. I'm not a tubes rule person. Any good preamplifier and amplifier works good, be it SS or tube. Your close by Parts Express is an avenue you should also definitely consider! http://stores.ebay.com/WHAT-A-TAKHEI_W0QQssPageNameZstrkQ3amefsQ3amesstQQtZkm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Pentico Posted September 12, 2008 Share Posted September 12, 2008 Hello Save your money on fancy name brand audiophile tube amps except for may be the highly rated 6bq5/el84 based single ended Almarro that is designed in Japan and made in Asia and shipped here. Based on your personality what may be more fun is to get a single ended 2 to 6 watt amp from a old 1950's or 1960's console stero cabinet and use your current preamp. A ebq5/el84 or 6v6 based single ended console amp from a Magnavox, Stromberg Carlson, Motorola, Sylvania, RCA or other vintage console will surprise you. It may not look a smooth as an integrated tube amplified combo preamp and amp in a completed box but you will be happier with the sound. After starting with a console amp you may want to explore a tube preamp like a Bottlehead tube preamp or a vintage solid state preamp from David Hadaway's DB Systems. The Adcom gear can always be used on an inefficient pair of speakers like electrostatics designs or sealed box speakers that are 86 to 91 db effecient instead overkilling a 105 db efficeint speaker like a Khorn. A major consideration in tube amps is other people and pets in your listening area as most console amps have unprotected tubes exposed to human contact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebes Posted September 12, 2008 Share Posted September 12, 2008 Hey Joe, welcome to the Forum. You'll like it here. Interesting take on amps, but I guess what we would have to find out first is the poster's ability to recondition an old console amp, or pay someone to have it done for him. Of course, since he has Khorns, he must live at a higher pay grade than mine.[] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tromprof Posted September 12, 2008 Author Share Posted September 12, 2008 Thanks for all the advice so far. I don't think my electrical skills are up to rebuilding an old amp, and I am reluctatnt to spend much money on an older piece of equipment being such a novice in the land of tube. At this point I am leaning toward a Chinese built YaqinMC-10L or Yaqin MC-100B from a compant in Canada who does bussiness on Ebay. The amps get some good reviews and don't cost a mint and might be a good way to start. Does anyone have first hand experience with these amps? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundbound Posted September 13, 2008 Share Posted September 13, 2008 tromprof, Will you post a direct link to the eBay Canada seller, so I can go check them out? Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tromprof Posted September 13, 2008 Author Share Posted September 13, 2008 Here is a link to the Canadian dealer who sells the Chinese amps. Has great feeback and is offering a warranty. Price seems middle of the road and he claims to test all the units prior to shipping. http://stores.ebay.com/Canadian-HiFi-Online Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paully Posted September 13, 2008 Share Posted September 13, 2008 Just a thought, but a Paramour II from Bottlehead if you want to try SET is within your prices range. It is a kit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheltie dave Posted September 13, 2008 Share Posted September 13, 2008 You have a problem - you hear too well AND you know what you want to hear. The majority of cheap and modest priced tube gear will do some things in superlative fashion, some things well, and some things not as well as the Adcom. As a professional horn player, it will bother you to hear attacks and decays that are not rendered correctly, or the woodwinds and strings getting lost in heavier passages, or dynamic passages that become muddy. Rather than rave about some of the lesser lines, I would suggest you save up for a while and invest at the Blueberry/VRD level or higher. The lesser cuts of beef will both eventually show their warts and leave you holding some depreciation exposure when you move on. The handful of symphony musicians in St. Louis who have heard my setup seemed quite pleased with the Slatkin recordings we played that they had played on. The price is quite steeper than what you are forecasting, but the quality is there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audio Flynn Posted September 13, 2008 Share Posted September 13, 2008 You have a problem - you hear too well AND you know what you want to hear. The majority of cheap and modest priced tube gear will do some things in superlative fashion, some things well, and some things not as well as the Adcom. As a professional horn player, it will bother you to hear attacks and decays that are not rendered correctly, or the woodwinds and strings getting lost in heavier passages, or dynamic passages that become muddy. Rather than rave about some of the lesser lines, I would suggest you save up for a while and invest at the Blueberry/VRD level or higher. The lesser cuts of beef will both eventually show their warts and leave you holding some depreciation exposure when you move on. The handful of symphony musicians in St. Louis who have heard my setup seemed quite pleased with the Slatkin recordings we played that they had played on. The price is quite steeper than what you are forecasting, but the quality is there. Great sentence. It was a easy to sell of my Scott LK-48 after having the VRD in the system for less than a week. Love the vintage amps but high value tube amps have attack, decay and bass weight that dwarfs the vintage lovely sounding tube integrateds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tromprof Posted September 13, 2008 Author Share Posted September 13, 2008 I am sure the NOS amps sound great but that kind of price ($2000 and up) is and will remain well beyond me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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