Ski Bum

I like the Hawthorne speakers on that site, but if that shrink believes in the magic power strips, he's the one who needs therapy.

djk and Coli have it right. The impedance switches on AVRs typically limit the power supply to protect itself from overheating. This results in lower available power and earlier onset of clipping (boo! hiss!). In the higher impedance setting the amps are able to provide full rated power and, consequently, can and will generate more heat if called on to do so. Audioholics published an article a few years ago in which they bench tested a bevy of AVRs under both of their impedance settings, and in some cases the differences were significant. Only a few top shelf AVRs didn't exhibit this hamstringing of the power in the "low" impedance setting. For those with AVRs who wish to use the high impedance (and thus higher risk of thermal damage) setting, consider some $5 insurance:

It's not that simple, unfortunately. There is a lot of idiosyncratic variation with the amps, due to the iron, circuit, parts employed, tubes, etc. A high output impedance single ended amp will still have a more peaky response at resonance than an amp with lower output impedance, even if they are the same power. Will the WAVAC 50 watt amp have the same "sweetness"? Unless it employs phase splitters somewhere, then yes, it probably has those classic single ended traits as the little guys. Of course they are aimed at the guy with insensitive speakers who wants the single ended thing, and willing to pay a premium for the privilege. You could compare the cost of the WAVAC to that of just about anything else to keep things in perspective. Commercial tube amps are typically a horrid value proposition, and WAVAC is the poster boy for such excess. (I'm hyper frugal, so that could be simply my projection. But seriously, for a tiny fraction of the cost of a WAVAC, even a used one, Maynard could probably whip together an amp that would sound every bit as pleasing.)

Dave is much more curmudgeonny than Peter Aczel.

Hola, and welcome to the forum. Some really knowledgeable sweep tube ninjas frequent this place. To your questions, have you considered line level attenuators for your current amp? As far as PP vs. SE, I find the single ended sound to be a bit more lyrical, pp to be more brassy and bold. I prefer the slightly sweeter single ended flavor. Push pull brings the power, but single ended just makes the music reach out and envelop you. But this process is best approached in a methodical fashion. We know your speakers. Next, how big is your room? What are your desired listening levels? Speaker orientation and listening distance?

Cans are great and all, no room issues to deal with, but speakers rule. Get the whole family dancing. And I like the suggestions so far. Chief Snark's system is a perfect example. Chorus II, or my favorite the forte II, a slammin' ss amp or one of Maynard's cake pan amps (preferably one of each), a KISS front end, and voila, lots of musical grins for minimal outlay.

The Dayton Omnimic is about as easy as it gets. Install the software and calibration file, and you're ready to start taking measurements. Kind of expensive for a strictly measurement tool. My recommendation is for REW. It's free, but you will need a calibrated usb mic, <$100. While it's a bit less user friendly, once you get up the learning curve it's got everything the Omnimic does, and then some.

It doesn't even need to be a cutting edge Danley or whatever. That antique Klipsch speaker in the craigslist ad has more engineering behind it than the entirety of the Zu speaker catalog.

Did you see Maynard's and the new guy's responses in the other thread? They were pretty spot on. The digital storage medium is not a limiting factor. The quality of the production all too often leaves a lot to be desired. Warm to me is spectral balance, smooth is a bit harder to quantify, but I do tend to prefer tubes for this. The tube buffer may or may not make an audible difference, it depends. A tube amp coupled to a speaker, however, will more than likely result in an audible difference. My own general use: Boring digital front end ---> SE tubes ---> Klipsch Boring digital front end ---> boring ss amp ---> Klipsch vinyl ---> well, I just fail to see the charms of vinyl.

QFT. Key aspect: tube amps driving transducers. The folks using tube buffers or line stages expressly in pursuit of "tube sound" should take note.

For dead quiet, those fancy new Benchmark amps look great, at least on paper. Extraordinary, DACesque s/n specs, kinda lowish gain, and plenty of power. Doesn't one of the regulars around here have one of those? I thought so, but not sure.

At the show, neither the band nor the mains are coming at me from knee level. So given that, and the sought after illusion, "ideally" floor placed Heresies seem inherently flawed. And even on the floor, they still require subs for the lower octaves. So I say use stands, eq. as needed, and augment w/ subs.

I agree w/ Mark and fjd, but also sympathize w/ akdave. I feel kind of powerless and cynical and simply try to focus on what I actually can control. My hedge against all this is heavy weighting in health care mutual funds and more cash than usual (and lots of good music, family, friends, good food, and fun in the present). Cheers and happy Sunday.

Good grief, I thought my go-to guy was slow...if you cannot find anyone else closer by to do the work, contact Don at The Sound Doctor in Loveland, Colorado. Factory authorized repair for almost all brands (so he's qualified), and likes to work on the vintage ss stuff. Typical turn around is several weeks.

http://libinst.com/PublicArticles/Setup%20of%20WG%20Speakers.pdf http://www.avsforum.com/attachments/66901 test, it works...couple good links describing and showing what Chris is talkin' about.

Before you go spending big bucks on amplification, thoroughly assess if you actually need more power. How big is the room? Listening distance? How loud do you wish to go? The answer to those questions will help determine if you need to spend the money on amps, or if the Marantz will suffice. Once you get a sub or two and implement bass management, your power needs will diminish from where they are without the subs. And you may wish to consider non Klipsch subs for that matter.

Who said anything about double blind testing? That's all your projection. The measurements were simply to more closely match output of the amps in question, to rule out one of the most common causes of audible differences, that's it. Some of us take a more methodical approach than others, I guess. Some here seem to believe it's magic, e.g. that isolation footers for amps makes an audible difference.

Match levels by measuring across the speaker terminals while playing a CD with relevant test tones on it. Switch back and forth between the two signal paths and set gains until the levels match within 1% which is about the same as 0.1 dB.

For level matching you really need to measure at the speaker terminals with a multimeter, not rely on the questionable calibration of AVR volume control settings. Slight difference in gain will be audible. I agree w/ Roger and Mustang Guy (don't doubt your communications skills MG, I smell what you're steppin' in). Easy way to widen the soundstage is to spread out the speakers a bit more. Beautiful room, btw.

I do too, particularly the realistic loss over distance estimates for in-room situations. But even using his numbers and applying it to my own particular target spls (high nineties, avg low to mid eighties), assuming Khorns at 16', four watts would cover me. In my actual setup, which is fortes in about a 12' equilateral triangle, I only need about two watts to get to a very happy listening level. Even with eq boosts I seem to have enough headroom to pull this off. edit: Dean, I see your last post addresses this. For me, I like to be able to listen all day, and peaks in the mid nineties is just about right for me for such extended listening. I get enough weight and authority to become fully engrossed in the music. Any more, from any sort of amp, is just too freakin loud for extended listening. And like most of us with puny amps, I too have the big amps on standby for when club level spls are desired. That's fun, and I'm glad I have speakers that actually can get loud without going to pieces, but the full tilt blasting just doesn't happen very often.

My stands raise the speakers ~11". Adjustable tilt (very handy not only for optimal placement/orientation, but makes them inhospitable to plants, drinks, cats that prefer flat surfaces, and other potentially damaging stuff).

I dunno about that...richieb is using Khorns. A single watt should bring plenty of weight and authority, provided a little loudness compensation or other eq has been appropriately applied. I do that using considerably less sensitive speakers and it has weight and authority galore. The only drawback, if it really is a drawback, is an inability to achieve painfully loud spl levels.

Hopefully our resident sweep tube ninjas will chime in. [Paging Maynard and Erik, your expertise is required.] The parafeed approach that erik2a3 has posted about sounds like it could bring excellent bass, kinda curious about that myself.

From strictly a performance angle, it's the speakers and (conspicuously overlooked in this thread) the room. A $20K budget, and the room's influence seems overlooked, as though throwing $20K at just the kit will solve acoustic issues. At that budget, any required room treatments could be very tastefully integrated into the decor.

MLO, to thy own ischial spacing be true. Ergonomic saddle fit can make or break the enjoyment. Tarheel, it is a bit of an acquired pain. You'll get conditioned to it, but at the same time don't avoid trying others if it keeps you riding and enjoying the bike. The classic Flight shape fits me best, but on my roadie I have a Serfas dd pro, which is similar but much more comfy (a non-cutaway but still a ball saver by design).