Audible Nectar

This has been proven to prevent low (T)ransconductance.

I'm thinking that I should mow the lawn with a sickle today instead of a mower. Like seriousleh, if vacuum tubes are the way to audio bliss why not step back in terms of tech in these other ways. Sickles for lawn mowers, oxen for roto-tillers and old school technology vaccines when better is available. If you want the "non-fauci" one it's the Pfizer, 100% "warp-speed" and gubmint free, point of fact....

I'm not yet at the enjoyment stage - still in parts, crossovers being built, grill cloths being replaced, pre-pro being replaced......it's all bought and here on "theoretical" but a very well researched set of theoreticals, and it's good to see people who know/own what I'm installing into mine those qualities I seek as purpose for said changes. So we'll see just how much I do enjoy them in the not too distant future (albeit could be the rest of summer before it reopens).

I am really liking the sounds of this statement (from a guy who has a six-pack of A55-G and the aforementioned tweeters here for Cornwall Theater refresh).

I did some further digging on this amp mating thing, and with some of the stuff you discuss here. I'm a circuit idiot but know what sounds good and where the "safe play" typically is WRT some gears on these speakers, but in an attempt to ferret out some finer points on this - because after all, we're spending some real money here - that we (to the extent possible) have an understanding of these points, even if only in theory when the audition isn't really possible. But some things seem to be taking some focus: I talked to Absolute Sound in MN (an authorized Mac shop who specializes in rebuilding the early SS era Macs) about incorporating these into my theater, and mating them with an MX151 or similar, vs doing the obvious and just getting an MC205. The 205 is the same era, matches perfectly in terms of Mac's modern vision of this as well as electrically/everything else. But as I have a pair of MC250 and could add to those and have Absolute Sound or a similar place rebuild them, I asked them of the issues and possibilities, thinking that I could, in part, use what I have. Much to my surprise, they also said the 250/2100 rebuilt would image better than the 205 (I really doubted this but have read/heard it twice now), but would have less authoritative "grip" on the woofer in a ported cabinet, but again when considering that the amp would be rebuilt and the Cornwalls supported by bass reinforcement cabinets that his might be "overlookable" and maybe downright desirable, as the rounded bass of the 250/2100 is most musical and tuneful and not a problem, at least to my thinking. Absolute Sound tended to think it would be less of an issue/less discernible after rebuild, that in part the "tubbiness" is the age of the amplifier that will freshen up in part with proper electrical work. There also wasn't a compatibility issue with the new pre into the old amps, apparently the old preamps don't always play well with the newer amps, however (but that's 60's/70's era preamps) but this scenario here checks out too. But the modern "Mac" is easier in the rack and the dials as you mention, and made in the same era. Even in the modern "sound" Mac still fits Klipsch well, at least "by the book". I also have a bit of an oddity in that if I went the old way ideally I should find a mono - say a Mac 100 to place between the 2100 to be that third center channel. Only 380-odd were made though, but I could strap a 250 to mono and use the spare in the 2 channel room or otherwise. But it seems for opener's sake the initial "move'" seems to be to pursue a 205 or similar Mac and see how it gets along. It takes a bunch of variables out and simplifies the building and listening process. I'm still going to have those 250s rebuilt as well, as I have a tube system/setup/room, and a pair of 250s are always welcome around as a backup, or to experiment with in the HT and put some of these concepts to actual demo. So I get a good deal of that tube sound/"fatter midrange" it seems you get from the vintage, so that itch will get scratched as well. Mac amps hold value too, so it's a safe if not long way around to audition in home and move it along if not so impressed. But it's still just "thinking out loud" until I get the preamp, which appears to be about a week out......

Seems to be the thing for this forum this summer, lot of rebuilding theaters going on in here..... I'm stepping back into the world of high end pre-pros, been looking at the landscape and I'm landing (if all goes right this next week) on a Mac 151 (from the "one generation back" school as I tend to do with high end digi-gear). Mac really is a good fit for Klipsch and I feel pretty safe with that choice in terms of sonics, it's really not much of a gamble, not to mention the RoomPerfect (the creme de la creme in room correction if reviews are any indication) seems to be a real plus. MX160s (4K version) are around for the 8Kish area on the market, which now are a gen back with the MX170 now out (14K list new). Bryston won't do much to assuage our budget side, either, the SP3 in the five figure ballpark, like the Tinnov and Datasats. I think the "one to watch" is the Anthem, the AVM70 ad AVM 90 (high end audio version) are going to be lookers in terms of feature set and package, but these are pretty much unobtainium until late summer/fall (AVM 90 mid-Oct). I think these will be really attractive for their price. They will have the Roon/XLRs but no Auro3D as Anthem has their own version. The Marantz 8805A is just now posted on Marantz's.website, 8K and will have the Roon/Auro3D/XLRs. Audyssey RC, however.

Either that or something was lysergic in my coffee this morning.....

C'mon......what's a matter with a little "cross-the-border" action, huh? Deux deux deux.......

If one watches the "Director's commentary" version of the film, where Sidney Lumet discusses what he and Paddy were thinking and intending when the film was made, as the film plays, scene by scene, there would be a whole lotta people who would never use this as an example method to make their particular "points". Diana Christensen's "News Hour" was Paddy's foretelling of the "tabloidification" of news, with soothsayers, angle grinders, and other charlatans.....back during a day when news existed for public service instead of profit (most news stuff were loss leaders done for the purpose of public service). When one of the networks (ABC I think) was looked at for purchase by a larger corporation Paddy said "Oh, no, this is our undoing". Paddy saw the future. "We'll tell you any ---- you want to hear." - Howard Beale

"We're in the boredom killing business..." Howard Beale

"There is only IBM, ITT, ATT, DuPont, Dow, and Exxon - those ARE the nations of the world today." - Arthur Jensen, CEO, from the 1976 film "Network", which I've seen a few times (see avatar)

My local dealer, who sells both Anthem and Marantz as well as Heritage Klipsch (they had LaScalas in their own room OMG I about fell on my a55 over the sight of that) says don't. Thinks Marantz is better voiced for Heritage. Of course he has none of this stuff in stock, and neither does anyone else, so I'm sorta left looking at higher end pre-pros of a generation old, where the audio is luscious and I'm not stuffing my ears fulla cotton balls from the horrid 2 channel performance. Not that I'm unwilling to wait for an Anthem AVM70 or a Marantz 8805 if I thought the product was a "match" or worth the wait but when I have a guy literally telling me not to WRT Anthem I think he might know something I don't, or suspects what I do (voiced too energetic through the mid-upper registers). The line isn't any longer or shorter for any of the brands in his stable so I really don't think he cares one way or the other but there did seem some meeting of the minds when I came to the discussion of "voicing". It's all about the "voicing", as it were, and I'm sniffing around stuff that has that "rep", albeit if maybe not all accurate in that. But if I were looking for a descriptor it would be "resolute yet wet" - as "dry" gear tends to have the cotton balls out again. "Clear, authoritative power absent grain, hint of "richness". Had a guy on another forum tell me he had an Anthem AVM60 then 70 into a Mac 205 and really liked the results, this after a few combos with Mac and Anthem both. Said the Mac seemed to juuuuust shave off any stridency of the Anthem that absence of hash in the Mac being an apparent benefit.. Places like Crutchfield let you buy and return if you don't like as well, but most mainline brand higher end pre-pros are really in stasis as the factory that makes the processing chips burnt last fall, and there were defects in the new gen HDMI hardware that apparently have to be reworked. This is why nobody has any of these from certain companies and my local dealer has stacks of orders/money down'd on both Marantz and Anthem gear already, like 20 deep on each brand. When I walked in and told him I was looking for a pre-pro he just gave me that "look"..... It's like people lined up to beat Tom Brady. It's a long line. So pre-pro land is more fun than a root canal, but in the end I think I'm more in the "recent higher end unit for sound purposes" camp as this will never see more than 5.1/5.2. and don't yet have anything running 4K, and if I do I'll end around the pre to the TV and back with an ARC cable. That's as "far along" as I'll likely need. I'm also discovering that a lot of these new preamps have the legacy connections disappearing, all the more reason to look one gen back as the input jack packs are really diverse. I'm really "grinding the gears" on a can't miss amp, because I know full well that I would possibly move the pre-pro along when needs require. Make the digital part the "flex piece" and buy that with the depreciation already behind me (and more sound per unit dollar) and hit a home run with the amp that will mate with and stick around for the longer/20 year haul if I flip the preamps/digi end. Trucking around and sampling 5 channel amps is some serious lift, and I would like to get it right the first time. Liking/sniffing more around: ATI (is "warm" a term associated with these guys? Always thought of them as a little more clinical/analytical, (I have an Outlaw, which is NOT the same, but shares a lot in common with ATI and factory/build). McIntosh (just got a feeling this is the no brainer aside from the added cost) Classe (high admission cost OR need refurbish, really suspect these are good) Theta - same as Classe, Dreadnaught worth if it were rebuilt, could buy a Mac for same price and make it easy, though). Bryston (would do with Bryston pre, pre out of my price league so they're out of the running) First watt's gotta be good..... I don't discount the B&K, Sunfire, as well as a few other circa 2000 units (Theta Dreadnaught also in this category) in that a 20 year old amp likely needs a rebuild. If I find the right rebuilt one, or know where to take it (the appropriate amp brand guru, so to speak) that's not out of the question either, but admittedly outside the world of Mac lost track of who those people are or if even still around. I'm not against it albeit more of a project at that point....

Looks like the preamp has been selected (McIntosh MX151) - the right piece, the right example, the right seller...... So I have this thought...... Mac MC2100 for mains (stereo) Mac MC250 bridged mono (center) Mac MC250 Stereo (rears) in a five Cornwall HT (to which the 5 main speakers will not change and added speakers besides sub=s will not be in any future plans) I have two MC250s in possession which would be rebuilt, even knowing where I can take them to, I would add an MC2100 to the pile and have it reworked to match, good for another 25 years thereafter. OR Mac MC205 (modern Mac, buy and plug in, good for 20 years) OR possibly something on the order of the suggested above, something good/somewhat vintage/rebuilt. Open to a. number of amp solutions, like the Sunfire suggestion as they have a rep for being liquid. I'd wanna investigate a rebuild, though on a 20 year old piece but those might be a possibility...... If I buy a Mac though, I know it will "fit".....higher admission cost though 🙂

Yeah, I see a few of these around the forum. You also have some experience with the MC250/2100ish series of amplifiers, right? I'm wondering what you think of those amps (and you had yours reworked too, right?) and what those would compare to an amp like an 8207, or an MC205. I only ask as I have a pair of MC250 already here and am looking at refurbing those. That makes me go hmmmmmm.....got an appointment now and some reading to do here....

Ahhhh, yes. McIntosh, Accuphase, Bryston. The stuff audio dreams are really made of. Accuphase doesn't really fit here, nor does Luxman, as the multichannel thing just isn't their thing. Much like the other aforementioned, all really good stuff known to be good on Klipsch but in their cases just not their game. I'm one who has had a goodly number of lesser experiences with certain amps on Klipsch. I think a number of those amps spoiled the brand in the minds of many, and believe that voicing is critical. Definitely not in the "all amps essentially sound the same" camp - every piece of gear has a sound, it's just the way it is, especially on the audio magnifiers that these speakers are. Refinements are noticeable and audible. Bryston is a company I am really impressed with, and point of fact took a foray into Bryston-land so to speak, to see what they were all about - some years ago. Back then - this being mid 2000-ish - the lesson that seems to stick with me was that Bryston is awesome IF paired with a Bryston preamp. The example differences were NOT subtle, the smoothness of the Bryston pair never seemed that evident when paired with other brands. The idea was "Hey, I like Bryston amps, use them with someone else's pre". That never seemed to work out in any real sense, I listened to sample systems and discussed this with other Klipsch/horn/similarly tuned audio enthusiasts and that seemed to be the conclusion I came to. Bryston amps seem to come off dry until mated with their pre - then it's OMG that's fantastic sort of territory. So on the Bryston PREAMP, it's the SP3, and the approach is that they upgrade the thing by sending it back, meaning any example on the market worth looking at is 8K+. Now I'm in for about 12K, and that's the low side, where on the Mac I'm looking MC205/MX151 or MX160 (IOW, a generation or two back such that I get the Mac pre for audio purposes) and just do the end around on the 4K, which I'm not even into yet as I have really good 1080 stuff calibrated to the hilt on the video side, making it less urgent to even worry about 4K. One thought is that the MC205 seems to be really well thought of, sixspeed's commentary being appreciated in its specificity. It mirrors a number of other commenters on that amp - but on other speakers, seemingly giving good results on all but the most power hungry speakers. The MC205 seems very attractive and a super-safe play, then working backward to find a proper mate. Great power amps are always valid. If I opt for the MX151 route I know I would be happy as hello with the sonic pairing, and could turn it and move on with the pre since the cost to obtain is much more modest than the current 10K+ these latest, high end preamps are placed in. I'm looking to get what others may spill, so to speak, more focused on a solid audio presentation and knowing I can end around the thing if I go 4K. If I go with another preamp the MC205 would have merit, I think, it seems others have used different preamps with good results on those. I am interested in how far back (or forward) in the Dolby Digital decoder progression to decode the Dolby Digital "plus", which is apparently the way they are broadcasting via Netflix and other providers. It was initially supposed to be backward compatible to simple 5.1 Dolby Digital decodes, then it wasn't - apparently the new standard needing certain more advanced decoders. I'm looking for some clarity on this. I had another poster on another forum suggest a Mac C45, which is a 7 channel analog unit (two such inputs) plus a host of 2 channel analog and phono ins. Take the decoder elsewhere, use the disc player/display/some sort of external surround decoder and run that output analog to the multichannel analog C45. Maybe find a unit that can just be a processor and let the C45 rule on 2 channel. But just not enough "chorus" from the Klipsch types, at least yet when it comes to alternate preamps that might mate well with the Mac amp. Thinking it's worth attempting to roust them out, or any others with experience and their opinions. There's always an assumption that the Mac, Bryston, Classe, Theta will be stellar, especially when using matched components/same brands together, but I'm wanting to pinch some cost on the pre - one reason being this will never be more than a 5.1/5.2 system anyway. I want the kit to down mix to 5.1/5.2 whatever reasonable/widespread formats that are out there, but to do that in the latest Mac/Classe/Bryston (not to mention Datasat, Tinnov, Lyngdorf, and a host of the high end players) is a five figure pre, and I'm not convinced that my system will be complex enough with enough 4K components installed to justify the five figure pre. In four years if I end up 4K and really goops have 4K HDMI switching, I'll part with the Mac that had mostly depreciated (so I won't lose much) and get say an MX160 that has 4K - if I really gotta have it. I went 19 years with no video switching at all, I'll bet I can do pretty OK with an HDMI 1.4 standard to at least get the basic audio functions programmed in, then end around the pre for the couple 4K sources that are actually being used...... The B & K is attractive in the sense they have a good "rep" being good matches. I DO appreciate the mention. The bad news is they went under 10ish years ago, not that they are out of the question, but I do wonder about what options would be realistic. If I found an example that had the proper rebuild there's definitely a case to be made. That's a highly specific item to find, but know full well such stuff exists. I recall rebuilt Nakamichi Stasis (Nelson Pass inspired) examples being around some years ago, where people took the trouble and had the knowhow to have the work done the way it should (so the amp is good for 20 years). So mayyyyyyyyyybe if the right one came along, I might bite - I've been told that a goodly number of those in existence are due for reworking. There's a handful of those era amps that I am open to under the right circumstances. I have the B & K in the similar camp as I do some of the older Krell/Classe/Theta stuff I've looked into, that similar 15/20 years ago era where a 5 channel amp got the appropriate restoration/full service love that would make it worthy of purchasing and being able to live with it for 20 years. If I can find the right one it might save some coin on the amp side, but yet knowing that good amps are no free ride.

Lookin' like Reservoir Dogs in here.......getting the old gang back together again 🙂 Still alive of course and down a tooth today, LOL.....

The Marantz and Mac gear does seem to be oft recommended. I'm likely if I go Marantz to buy separate power amplifiers, I'm not convinced the Marantz AV receivers are up to snuff re: power amplifier side, even the 5 channel separate offering they have currently has no listed spec for 4 ohms but it does for 6 and 8, and I'm extremely suspicious of that, especially when a Klipsch woofer at that woofer frequency is seen by the amp at about 3.7ish ohms. Mac separates are better suited to this I'm sure.

OK, so I'm in the market for a multichannel amplifier (five channels) for my Cornwall theater system. Considerations: Will be a "musical use" system, not just for theater but for music purposes that will NOT fatigue the ears over time. This was an issue on the old Krell HTS/Outlaw 750 combo, and as the Krell died and a number of upgrades have been in the "idea" stage for some time, I have begun the "button pushing" and putting these ideas into reality. Cornwalls are getting a complete refresh/rebuild, as will the balance of the HT, save for the screen, a Sony XBR 1080 that is fabulous looking and calibrated. In time I'll migrate to 4K but not an immediate consideration. Primary driver is sonics. Love the Oppo 93 but it sounds poor, a grating machine that despite it's wonderful picture needs improvement on the audio side (if not simply another processor it might sonically synergize better with, and I'll see if that's in fact the issue). But since the speakers are set and known, I then want to focus on the power supply for said speakers which I want to do once and like it for 20 years. Having a like for old McIntosh power amplifiers and the beloved autoformers, I know those are a sonic fit, albeit not really practical. I have a pair of MC250s at 50WPC (actually do about 70 clean before they peak), and on a pair of Cornwalls would cover a lot/most situations. They need rebuilding, as well as another two channels of Mac added on. I was thinking a 2100/2105 on the main pair, a 250 bridged to mono on the center, and a 250 running the rear pair. If I followed through they could be amplifiers for life. Question is, am I buying enough power? Cost: 2K to update the current pair of MC250, would be good for another 30-50 years, plus MC2100/2105 at 2.5K with proper rebuild. So about $4500, give or take acquisition cost and refurb on the 2100/2105. Multichannel 200WPC "modern Mac", no autoformers. Seems to be late model (example: MC205) for about 4-5K. One chassis, one shot, all five primary speakers covered. Despite not having the autoformers these still seem to "review" such that they still have that "Mac house sound", albeit a more modern, more toward the neutral, yet having that "non-offending" aspect that Heritage and my ears really want. I've read a few "these amps grip the woofer differently than the older 250" sort of comments as well. I wonder what the "first watt" is like here, and how that all works out in practice. Concern/issue: Are these modern versions reliable? I also wonder, for anyone so informed on the details of Mac, if the non-autoformered amps act in a way that remove so many of the advantages of the old amplifiers (but primarily in terms of that first/lower wattage output, then as it ramps up throughout it's capabilities). In many ways, the 200WPC would seem rather OK in a home theater application where guaranteed clean power would be available and not run out of steam, yet have plenty of reserve and not sweating whether an MC250 might run out on peaks. It's not really cost practical to buy all autoformered Mac amps at 200WPC levels either as they would be 15K-ish proposition costwise, none in multichannel as the side would be prohibitive. That said, Im not oft at reference levels, but yet don't want to necessarily "castrate" the kit of power for no good reason, either. Other options I've had mentioned are late model Classe, as well as certain early version Theta stuff that might be spilled by audiophiles upgrading yet said to be really smooth/clear/liquid (if not a bit Krellish) but yet good matches. In a two channel sense, I would be looking to tubes, Mac, or "First Watt" type of stuff, but I'm looking for some musicality and some clear/warm/liquid/smoooooooooooooth and don't mind spending some money to get it, in an amp that can lean "HT power" too. Preamps considered: Late model (but not new) Mac, for sonic match considerations, Anthem and Marantz in the realm of new stuff I could run 4K/8K (with supposed promised updatability) with. I have entertained the idea of doing a late model Mac processor for sound match considerations (again, the Mac "house sound" suiting Klipsch) and just bypassing the processor picture-wise in the event of 4K, and the Marantz/Anthem as options that have the latest 4K and room correction software as to start off with all bells/whistles/toys/software in a more modern approach. It will be a 5.1 (or 5.2 because I have two sub cabs) and will never be Atmos/added speakers, just the 5.1/5.2 doing the basic 5. type broadcast, multichannel music, and occasional film we take in on the system. But since I know what the speakers are, I want to then work one step back, and power them properly. Suggestions? Comments? Other ideas?

Holy S#-- those SCREAM.....no crossovers, though, although could be solvable.... I remember almost 20 years ago when JBL sold a bunch of these at the tent sale from the Northridge earthquake, by the time they got to a lot of us the top sections were sold out, still bought a pair of bottoms to use as LFE, still use 'em today. Dude on the phone thought we were certifiably nuts using that stuff in home theater apps but he was right about the "certifiable" part I guess 🙂

I did my double vax (Moderna) late March/late April, having scheduled the first dose for my first day of eligibility. First was pretty mild - felt sleepy/slouchy 6-30 hours out but not much else. Second one bit a little more....had fever/chills/sweats alternating and felt pretty out of it for a day or two. No picnic, but yet not intolerable either, a small price to pay for the statistical "advantage" of being vaccinated. I spoke with an epidemiologist about the subject some months ago, where he gave the analogy of the bouncer in a bar. Said bouncer is working a bar where a certain troublemaker is causing problems around the place: first to the bartender, then on the back patio, then in the bathroom line, but he's not noticed so much cuz he's a stranger to the place, and no one places him. But the bouncer finally catches up with him and tells him his time is up - not too much of an event but everyone knows who he is now. Four weeks later, said offender (now recognized COVID protein that the mRNA produces) shows up again, and now the staff knows who he is. Along comes the bouncer and kicks his arse out of the bar, and makes a little scene. Makes a few uncomfortable. But those who know the place knew who he was and wasted no time jumping him to eject him. This is the second shot, when your immune system now recognizes the offender (and hence the stronger and more direct reaction). That's what's supposed to happen, to one extent or another, in someone with a normally operating immune system. Elderly whose immune systems are shot don' get much reaction. They really need the stuff..... I would suggest hydrating well going into the procedure/timewait (36ish hours thereafter) as the second especially seemed to be taxing here (sweats/fever/chills, very evident the water loss). I had no issue keeping food/water/etc down, in fact woke up middle of night two drinking water just a bit hot around the head and elsewhere 🙂 Would do it all over again to put the numbers against infection on my side. Big relief getting that after a 13 month stint of working in and with the public and in tight quarters in a job where I have no other choice. So to me, its really was a relief, even among the night sweats.

My two current Toyotas ('03 Corolla and '09 Sienna). These cars are uber-reliable and don't nickel and dime me with maintenance costs - the rare necessary repairs have been reasonable and taken well. The lack of need to change vehicles affords me a bunch of other things, like Klipsch and other niceties....even bought a John Deere 700 sig series tractor with snowblower and material collection system (basically the cost of a car) because my vehicles last long enough that I can have two owned vehicles for such a time that I can afford to do that too). Took that tractor and did a bunch of exterior work on the property, work I would have had to pay others to do, absent the tractor. So those vehicles keep paying for themselves and producing other stuff and results....... Vehicles are a utility here (a work machine/entity) and don't care about style points. I care that they do the work I need them to do each and every day, and they do that.

Jubilees are "too much" for my room. My selected speakers are right (or at least "more right") than Jubs would be, so I set out to make those, within reason and in the realm of what is possible, "The best they can be". Jubs are like using a nuke for a fly swatter here, just don't need or even want "that much" in here. I even investigated going the Volti route with my Belles. Really cool concept, but again too much for that room, whereas I found that simply working within the existing Belle structure (crossovers, solder term midrange, MAHL tweeters) have me where I want to be with those. Giddy, in fact, rather surprised just how good those really are and seek to bring similar qualities to the Cornwall theater system, where the subject header and the challenge of system building and actually getting it in place rears its head again. All part of the hobby and the pursuit, I suppose 🙂

Diminishing returns is a thing, but when played on the audio magnifiers that are Heritage and similar type speakers the "how far is far enough" thing can be a slippery slope.While it may be true that the best things in life are free, I find that not to be true in the realm of audio components, which admittedly has it's share of "overprice" but yet also has a number of areas where there is no "free ride". Power amplifiers seem to have an aspect to this, especially solid state, the good stuff costs buuuuuuuuuxxxxxx.... One thing that helps is a breadth of listening experience. The trick is to take it far enough that you don't much re-evaluate/rehash the question over and over again, but know that you're not likely to gain much from the swap - in fact one might be as apt to screw up good synergy as anything else. Cap rolling alone can drive a guy nuts, just as well as bring ultimate joy when the right combo is found......just like later gears/components/equipments. I got there with my 2 channel kit by and large, that setup is an accumulation of what I learned here and am rather pleased with what it is. It's been mentioned about listening in.shops and system matching. That's the hell to pay here, short of a very select group of known knowns (like McIntosh/Klipsch usually fit really well together) it's really hard to figure out those synergies when just asking for "what amp/preamp/HT processor sounds best for X $$$ price point" becomes becomes more difficult to ask as we don't have that shared experience of going into shops and listening to popular combinations that are "normal" to be seen in the business. Absent audio meetings in recent months, even more so. It makes that "how far/much" more difficult to ask and answer, especially when one subscribes to the "not all amps/gears sound the same" as well as things like synergy being a critical component. Hell, I have a hard enough time even finding people who get stuff like "Classe/Mac/Nelson Pass match Klipsch well, what's lower cost that gets me in this direction" oft gets weird looks these days. I'm drilling my own brain on a prepare/amp core for my now-in-renovation HT/multimedia system and this stuff is running my brain. "Hey, you know Mac will suit your kit just wonderfully, you know it for a fact" "Yeah, but to get what you want is between 8 and 15K" (5 channel amp plus appropriate pre-pro) "OK, so what puts me in that direction while only spending 7 grand", etc........ :: cues up scene in Jaws where the fish takes off with the line and reel :: :: thinks also of devil/angel scene in Animal House :: .....and here we go again.....

Teflon film caps DO take in the multiple hundreds of hours to break in. Not hyperbole at all, and a long wait, but once they do break in they "get out of the way" sonically like nothing else. Makes for a LONG evaluation time though - many don't have the patience to do it but rewarding in a lot of cases. That said, I'm not sure I would want to go TFTF for crossovers on a horn speaker, though.

:: reads subject title asking why no Stanley Cup thread :: I guess that's what happens when the series is played by two teams you both hope will lose