First Flat Screen - Need Advice

[Kriton]

OK, I know this is stupid - but I am one of those guys who has had a killer surround system for years, and has been watching the whole time on a 1998 Toshiba CRT - well I am now moved and I want to upgrade to a wall mount flat screen -

I have researched this and every one has opinions, but I trust you fanatics to steer me in the right direction more than anything I can read online - and now I saw at Best Buy that they have LED units out, can anyone decipher this crap and tell me what the best rated model is out there right now - plasma, LCD or LED? What do you boys think? Sharp, Samsung, LG - what is the best model,a dn should I b be looking at big box stores or online? Can I get a cheaper deal online and is it worth it to risk the potential service problems? Projector? what do you think? I have the Oppo blueray providing the pictures and my dated Sunfire components providing audio - if that makes a difference.Got to tell you, I think the LED's that I saw were brighter than anything else around them - are thhey still having blurring problems with the plasmas, etc?

Size is 50-65 inch, by the way - assume that I can control the lighting.

Thanks!

Bruce

[Youthman]

Without just throwing out some ideas, I'd like to ask a few questions.

How large is your room?

How far will you be sitting from the TV or Screen?

As far as flat panel tv's, generally, if you can fully control the lighting (very dark room), you will generally get deeper black levels out of a plasma. If you have it in a living room where it is difficult to block out the light, an LCD would likely be a better choice.

I've heard of the LED's but have not done any research yet.

I was originally looking at a 50" Panasonic Plasma (model number had 80u) for my theater room. It was a 720p model (trying to keep the cost down). I found out the dimensions, and masked it out with blue masking tape on the wall. When I did, I immediately realized 50" would not give me the movie experience I was looking for being that my room is 13' W x 19' L x 10' H. I decided to go with the Panasonic AE3000u projector with a 103" screen and am totally glad I did. Projector setup isn't for every application but it might be one you might consider.

Since you are looking above 50", I would definitely go with a 1080p unit.

[superedge88]

The LED flat screens are just an LCD TV that is backlit with LEDs instead of fluorescent lights. So no HUGE difference in my opinion, and when comparing the two.

[BuyOtherSoundEquipment]

LED backlighting, in my opinion, is a significant improvement. If given the opportunity, compare a CCFL (conventional backlight) LCD to an LED unit. Black levels and depth of color are substantially improved, in general. Samsung has a gorgeous model out, the UN55B7100. Nice size and great picture for a little over or under 3K, depending upon where you shop.

Sony has their XBR8 line, which I have not gotten an opportunity to see. Everyone says it's the bee's knees. Expect to pay around 4-5K for the 55", however.

The best solution, as far as I can see would be to snap up one of the last Pioneer Elite Kuro plasmas before they go bye-bye. PQ is pretty much unrivaled.

Let us know what you think.

[Youthman]

When you are paying above $3k for a TV, I'd seriously consider going with a projection (again if you have good control of lighting).

[Sick Mother]

If you are definetly going to wall mount it, and definetly are good with 60", the Pioneer Elite Kuro is practically a lock. There is arguably no set out there with better picture quality. Unfortunately Pioneer is getting out of the biz (Panasonic will take over making their displays) so get one while you can. They make 50" and 60" sets. Obviously you don't replace/upgrade often so you want to make sure its the right size and quality.

Are you sure you want it wall mounted? I only ask because your center channel, cable box, DVD, etc. sticks out a foot or so anyway and a nice entertainment center may work well. If so, Mitsubishi has a new line of DLPs that get HUGE (can you say 82"?) for relatively little money. I have priced out the WD-82737 on amazon for $4k shipping included. I understand that may be more screen than you want, but they have other sizes and as you can see it's far more cost effective than either LCD or plasma. Whatever set you get, I personally recommend having it professionally calibrated. It isn't free but will certainly make an already good looking set look great. Good luck.

John

[RockOn4Klipsch]

I'm may get ragged on but anyways.....

If your room is large enough and you can control the lighting as youthman said go for a projector. If you have the space but don't want a screen that big DLP has some major benefits as far as screen size go in comparison to the Plasma or LCD (or LED). I always tell everyone I know that unless you plan on mounting your TV to save space the plasma's and LCD's are a waste. If space conservation is important then go that direction, if not maybe consider a DLP. The new rage is "flat screens" but IMO my DLP looks just as good if not better than most "flat" screens I've seen.

The new plasma's are ages beyond burn in issues, LCD's have definitely speed up in the response/refresh time so you're comparing devices that are very similiar. Plasma's typically yield darker blacks and LCD's are dynamic. DLP IMO have the best of both worlds with a couple of issues, it is a Direct view TV, it yeilds it's best image straight on, the LCD's and Plasma's have better viewing angles, but how often do you watch at 120 * off center. Some people (not all) see what is known as the "Rainbow Effect" I see them if I force myself to. DLP's can get very bright just like LCD's and produce great blacks as Plasma's.

Another nice thing about DLP's is their light source is renewable unlike plasma's or LCDs (assuming you don't get a LED DLP). The life of a DLP is greater, when you tell people this you usually get the response " Well plasma's and LCD's say the have 10 or 20 000 hours of use", this is under optimal conditions, Then you get this " well who keeps a TV for 10 years?" blah blah blah. My TV is on for probably 12 -15 hours a day ( my dad lives with us and watches our son so it stays on in the background). So being able to renew the light source when the image begins to fade is important to me.

When flat screens begin to fade, there's no fix other than to purchase a new TV which could be costly, more costly then purchasing a new lamp for a hundred bucks......

Hope it's help.....just adds another idea to the mix.

[Sick Mother]

I'm may get ragged on but anyways.....

If your room is large enough and you can control the lighting as youthman said go for a projector. If you have the space but don't want a screen that big DLP has some major benefits as far as screen size go in comparison to the Plasma or LCD (or LED). I always tell everyone I know that unless you plan on mounting your TV to save space the plasma's and LCD's are a waste. If space conservation is important then go that direction, if not maybe consider a DLP. The new rage is "flat screens" but IMO my DLP looks just as good if not better than most "flat" screens I've seen.

The new plasma's are ages beyond burn in issues, LCD's have definitely speed up in the response/refresh time so you're comparing devices that are very similiar. Plasma's typically yield darker blacks and LCD's are dynamic. DLP IMO have the best of both worlds with a couple of issues, it is a Direct view TV, it yeilds it's best image straight on, the LCD's and Plasma's have better viewing angles, but how often do you watch at 120 * off center. Some people (not all) see what is known as the "Rainbow Effect" I see them if I force myself to. DLP's can get very bright just like LCD's and produce great blacks as Plasma's.

Another nice thing about DLP's is their light source is renewable unlike plasma's or LCDs (assuming you don't get a LED DLP). The life of a DLP is greater, when you tell people this you usually get the response " Well plasma's and LCD's say the have 10 or 20 000 hours of use", this is under optimal conditions, Then you get this " well who keeps a TV for 10 years?" blah blah blah. My TV is on for probably 12 -15 hours a day ( my dad lives with us and watches our son so it stays on in the background). So being able to renew the light source when the image begins to fade is important to me.

When flat screens begin to fade, there's no fix other than to purchase a new TV which could be costly, more costly then purchasing a new lamp for a hundred bucks......

Hope it's help.....just adds another idea to the mix.

+1

What is the main application for this display? Sports? Movies? Entertaining? If its sports or entertaining, I would DEFINETLY steer clear of a projector. How often are you entertaing in the dark (with your clothes on and watching a TV)[] Same thing with sports...it's just a lights-on activity and a projector would not be good for that situation. If on the other hand this is 100% movies, they rock. The ability to renew the light source, go big inexpensively, and have great contrast make DLPs great though.

John

[kolibasa]

This may repeat some of what others have said, because i didnt bother to read it... I just wanted to share with you what i found while shopping for my TV.

I rescently purchased a 50" 1080P Panasonic Plasma. Cost: 1,199$. Why did I choose it?

1.) No LCD that I tested can hold a candle to the colors that a plasma can reproduce, or the black levels. Except for some of the uber expensive new LED models. Again why pay 3x more for something that performs almost as well?

2.) my TV has a 480hz refreshrate. (or is it 600...not the point) You have to pay a premium to get a LCD with 120!!

3.) I looked, i waited... I pounced when the price was right. Best Buy, Floor Model. I haggled themdown. Since I agreed to buy the color calibration, i actualy purchased the TV from best buy for LESS than what they bought it for from Panasonic... They pulled it up on the computer and showed me. I later returned the color calibration service before they came out.... I calibrated it my self, its easy, if you have the patience and wanna spend hours playing with different things to figure out what they do and how they effect each other..........

Is 50" big enough. It gets the job done. If I could have afforded it, i would have bought a 58" Panny Plasma with out a doubt.

Just to put it in to perspective real quick. I have a friend who just spent 500$ more on his 46" LCD Samsung at Best Buy. I went to his house and checked it out. He had it professionaly calibrated which brought it up over 2k$. Black details were aweful, simply aweful. Colors very unnatural. I feel bad for the guy, but i didnt tell him.

[kolibasa]

Remember! It is hard to compare TV's at any retail stores.

None of the Displays are clibrated, except for some of the displays in Magnolia (at best buy). They are set to one of the default settings, and none of them are set to the same. Some are set to Vivid (which is the worse thing ever, but often used because it stands out and "looks better" around other displays". forexample, when i brought my TV h ome it was set to vivid. I switch back and forth, and omg its aweful.

THAT is why alot of times LCD's will look "better" than Plasma's on the wall. As you had mentioned in your original post, the LCD's looke brighter. Ask them to set everything to the "standard" setting, and compare blacks, colors. etc. especialy the details in the blacks and white areas.

[Brac]

there is a thread from a month ago where we were helping Silver Sport (I Think) There is really alot of good info there. I am hoping someone will find it for you since I can't seem to locate it.

I will spend a minute discussing the mount though. Wall mounts start at $50 and go up to several hundred, The cheap ones are a PITA, and alot of them have no adjustment. I like my vantage point mount which has a tilt adjustment. Also depending on the set you choose, some tv have connections in the back and they get pinched aginst the wall with alot of the cheap mounts.

I have also installed a few of the big arm mounts, these let you swing your 50" tv around in a fulll 180` arc, and allow you to pull it foward a few feet as well, not sure of your room or your needs.

As TV's go I have installed and set up a few hundred, when I bought I went with the panasonic Plama, commercial monitor. Partly because at the time it came with a free 5 year extended. As far as PQ the panasonic, pioneer, and samsung all have great pictures. Trouble is as I always preach and was stated above, what a set in a store looks like is less than meaningless. As for asking the sales guy to adjust to set for a better comparision, I think it would be easier to ask the grass not to grow. (it don't know how)

[smokarz]

get the Panasonic TCP50G10 or TCP54G10. they're the best bang for your bucks on the market RIGHT NOW.

Check the AVS forums for more details.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1128052&page=141

[JJkizak]

Things to remember:

1...Some people with glasses see colors differently than people without glasses.

2...Some people with glasses see colors the same as people without glasses.

3...Older people typically see very sharp pictures as not so sharp because of diminished vision. They will not be impressed with a High Def 1080P live picture because they cannot see the difference.

4...Older people really could care less about the difference between regular (4 x 3) and widescreen (16 x 9)

5...Most commercial facilities set up their sets in "stretchovision" with short fat people or about 1/2 the picture missing. (car dealers, repair shops, hospitals, etc)

6...When doing comparisons you must use the same channel, program, and method (OTA-Cable-Sat). Some tv programs are filmed in widescreen with high grain film and look pretty noisy on a good high def set. A real widescreen movie (2.35 x 1) shown on tv will most of the time be cut down to 16 x 9 and you will loose half the picture and pick up a gaggle of noise. The local OTA live newscasts will give you the best picture.

7...The depth of black color is most noticeable on full nightime sky shots which do not occurr very often. The people watching stretchovision could care less about the lack of black, as do most viewers.

8. Having the set professionally calibrated for 99% of the people is a waste of time as when you change the brightness or contrast the whole calibration is blown.

9....Some local tv stations have different engineers setting up the final picture the way they want it according to their eyes. You will see slight differences in gamma, contrast, sharpness, and brightness when changing channels. This also blows your calibration out the door.

10..All of the selected inputs have individual color settings to allow for the different brands of DVD players, Bluray, etc. and they do very. So in some cases you have to make 8 calibrations.

11. Some people have varying degrees of color blindness.

12. Some films are purposely "colorized" to a yellow, green, or red tint for dramatic effect. There are thousands of color variations including less or more color. The best being the old 3 print technicolor system.

12.5 Projectors that can equal the brightness and contrast of an LCD or Plasma set cost about $30,000.00. (Sony 4K)

13. So at best everything you watch is a compromise.

JJK

[winchester21]

Panasonic or Samsung- whoever has the best deal of the day. My 2006 720 or 780 50" plasma Panasonic blows away my 1080 32' panasonic LCD in the den. L Go figure. look at as many as possible and make up your own mind.

Just helped a friend buy 2 42"flat screens- money was not a big factor in choice- ended up with the high end 720 Panasonics that are being replaced with another model soon- Stole them. Could tell enough difference to justify the 1080. Your observations may be different.