jacksonbart Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 The problem between A and B comparison is the human brain?.... . . .. .. . so that means we need aliens to beem down to earth and do the comparison to tell us which one they think is better?. I mean if people generally don't trust the human brain, its the basis for all we know and do. I mean how can a human counter act its effect, since it would involve a human brain, which is not trust worthy to begin with. All measuring equipment is made by a human brain, so throw that out too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Islander Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 I mean if people generally don't trust the human brain, its the basis for all we know and do. I mean how can a human counter act its effect, since it would involve a human brain, which is not trust worthy to begin with. All measuring equipment is made by a human brain, so throw that out too. We don't even live in the present. There's a measurable time lag between something happening and that event being perceived by our senses and interpreted by our brains, so everything we experience doesn't happen right now, it happened a fraction of a second ago. No wonder it's hard to keep up sometimes... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark1101 Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 I'll say we live in the past all right.........sometimes my butt thinks I'm at home in the bathroom when I'm still a mile down the road on the way home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Islander Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 I'll say we live in the past all right.........sometimes my butt thinks I'm at home in the bathroom when I'm still a mile down the road on the way home. Uh-oh! Adjusting your tire pressure won't help prevent those skid marks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZAKO Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 OOHHHH CRRRAAAPP ,,I,m In district 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WMcD Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 To answer Islander's question. Lennon and the crew put a 15 kHz (or so) tone at the end of Sgt. Pepper's. Just now I checked out my original CD using the laptop and MS Media Player set to the "bars" spectrum display. It is at 5:10 on A Day in the Life. This is just before the "I could never see it any other way" which was on the run-out groove of the LP. Using my old ears and a cheapo set of $15 headphones, it sounds to me like hiss with maybe some sensation of a note. The right-most bar on the display pops up high, maybe full scale. I invite younger ears with better reproducers to give a listen and report. And anyone with a dog. Wm McD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 Benz,,, You still hav,nt addressed how a 40k signal harmonic effects a studio mic,,whos bandwith craps out a 20k... It still doesnt get on the master cut. I'm not saying 40kHz makes it onto the recording....I'm saying the supertweeter is reproducing frequencies in the audible band (below 20kHz)...even if you go with a really high xover point (unless it's steep slope). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeJ1 Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 For what it's worth, I came across an article on the B&W 803Ds which said: "Granted, human hearing tops out at around 20 kHz, but there is substantial evidence to show that the range we do hear is powerfully affected by what's going on in the range we don't hear." I need to order more PWK Bullshit buttons so I can send them a few to pass around to their marketing people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JL Sargent Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 It takes alot more energy to create lower tones than higher tones. (IE: 1000 watts of sub working with 5 watts of tweeter). When a tone is generated the harmonics of that tone mostly travel towards higher frequencies, no? When high tones (above 20khz) are generated the energy is probably quickly lost in those harmonics going lower. If thats all true then I just don't think we are getting anything audible from North of the border. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZAKO Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 It,s called masking. But its still there. Some can detect it,,Most cant.. Tests were done at St Louis instatute for the deaf with varied results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJkizak Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 HMMMM, How can you hear it if the mic cuts it off? If it is not picked up on the mic it cannot be recorded. Are there any mics that go up to 100khz that are used in the recording industry? Maybe we could put boosters in our ears to hear all of this stuff. JJK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 It takes alot more energy to create lower tones than higher tones. (IE: 1000 watts of sub working with 5 watts of tweeter). I'm not quite sure that's true...I believe higher frequencies of the same amplitude actually require more energy. I think the reason we need more power for the LF is because it is usually less efficient and music generally require more LF amplitude for it to sound pleasing... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZAKO Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 Higher frequencies can produce alot of energy and be quite startaling,,, Take for example Mahlers 1st Symphony,,beggining of fourth movement,,, the cymble crash pinned my VU meter..+12,,, and startled every body in the audience..Dont under estimate the power of higher frequencies.,, They,l peel the green off your teeth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 I prefer to keep the green on my teeth... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZAKO Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 Tis best to keep one eye on the score,,One eye on the Vu meter... One hand on the slider attenuaters.. and the other hand reaching for the Sharmon when recording a Mahler Symphony.. It,l rattle your bones and part your hair at the same time,, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyrc Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 One of the urban legends of c1959 involved the Pentagon evaluating using the JBL 075 tweeter (the one that looked like an orange juice squeezer) as a weapon. It was said that they put a high frequency, high intensity signal through it, but all they managed to do was to destroy some vegetable material (or, in the more elaborate version, cut grass). I think if you disabled the midrange in a three way system, and left the tweeter on, cymbal crashes wouldn't have much impact ,,,, lots of shimmer, even loud sounding shimmer, but I think the real punch happens below 4K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZAKO Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 In one test in St Louis,, A HF unit was used to destroy the inner ear of Chinchilla.s then animal was disected to find extent of damage... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeJ1 Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 In one test in St Louis,, A HF unit was used to destroy the inner ear of Chinchilla.s then animal was disected to find extent of damage... Well that would be very useful for audiophiles to know that buying $65,000 B&W speakers with diamond tweeters that go to 50 Khz. will allow them to do this experiment on themselves with a signal gernerator. In the meantime, I still think you comment about the rolloff of microphones in the 10-15K range makes the most sense of all.........come on guys, let's get real. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seti Posted August 20, 2009 Author Share Posted August 20, 2009 B&W keeps coming up and oddly enough that is one of the reasons I started asking questions. Forum member KaiserSetSay has a pair of B&Ws and I really like the top end. I've commented on this many times. Is it because it is just a really good tweeter out to 20khz or because it is "super". Maron's point of view makes sense because if the mics are cutting off at 20hz why bother with a tweeter that goes to 30khz, 60khz, or even the bat slayer territory of 100khz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hifi jim Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 I'm not so sure that the mics are cutting off at 20khz, but rather their frequency response drops off... which I would think means that still some information above 20khz is being recorded. SACDs have information above 20khz, so the info must be getting on there somehow right? If the B&W that you speak of are the 800 series, yes that is a marvelous tweeter and I think much of its performance can be attributed to the Nautilus tube that sits above the speaker. Focal, Usher and Dynaudio make some terrific tweeters too, but my favorite is still Magnepans ribbon design. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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