PrestonTom Posted September 1, 2009 Share Posted September 1, 2009 You should consider cutting the flanges off the horns before you have them painted. Greg Hmmmm, now there is an idea, now sure how that would work, or how it would look, but smaller is the first thing that comes to mind. I will have to look into that, thanks for the suggestion Cutting off the flanges may cause a couple of problems. I would be careful about that suggestion. I am curious what Roy's perspective on that one would be. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kudret Posted September 1, 2009 Share Posted September 1, 2009 You should consider cutting the flanges off the horns before you have them painted. Greg I was planning to cut the flanges about an inch from the top and the bottom. Tom, What are the problems you foresee? Kudret 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lindsey Posted September 1, 2009 Share Posted September 1, 2009 please list your equip in profile, DWI man what other horns did you consider? Colin, I gotta get you out to hear the new Khorns w/V-Trac and 2" BMS drivers! Simply unreal how good they sound! These were completely refurbished by Greg and include closed in backs. Let me know if you are interested and we will work out the details. Maybe we can get Jim and Chops to come out as well. Mike 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrestonTom Posted September 1, 2009 Share Posted September 1, 2009 You should consider cutting the flanges off the horns before you have them painted. Greg I was planning to cut the flanges about an inch from the top and the bottom. Tom, What are the problems you foresee? Kudret The first issue is that the tractrix flare, which the K-402 uses a modified version of, has the mouth angle at 90 deg to the propagation path. By cutting off the flange you may be eliminating a necessary "boundary" when the wavefront leaves the mouth and goes into free space. This is speculation on my part and if there is an effect it may be small. However, it is an unknown. With other horn shapes there will be a difference when the horn is on a baffle or not. Perhaps this is analagous. The second issue is whether you would be compromising the structural rigidity of the horn itself. That flange may actually prevent some flexing. Again, this is speculation, but these are potential costs and it is not clear what the benefit is other than a change in cosmetics. If cosmetics are the issue, the flange holes can be plugged as Rigma has shown. Or if you are taking it to a body shop for painting, they will have some tricks on how to fill the holes prior to painting. In either case the horn is still quite large and cutting off the flange will not make it look smaller. On a practical note, if you choose to sell these one day would the buyer be more interested in stock or modified? -Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted September 1, 2009 Share Posted September 1, 2009 ...By cutting off the flange you may be eliminating a necessary "boundary" when the wavefront leaves the mouth and goes into free space... The second issue is whether you would be compromising the structural rigidity of the horn itself. That flange may actually prevent some flexing...Just here to second these two points that Tom makes. You would think that you need to look in Beranek to see the effects of this bit of advice. And I would run some structural stiffness calculations to see any structural effects. I don't think that Roy put those flanges there just for mounting the K402 to a piece of plywood behind a screen. This brings up a more general response: It occurs to me that one probably doesn't buy Jubs because they are necessarily pretty. "Pretty" is more like a Khorn or something with a European heritage... Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Travis In Austin Posted September 1, 2009 Author Moderators Share Posted September 1, 2009 Travis, do you mean this German company? http://www.acapella.de/img/Sphaeron.jpg Heinz, I beleive thos are the ones, they look very similar. I will get Luther to send me the guy's set up and I will post that photo. The one thing I remember is that they have Plasma tweeters, which I have never had the chance to hear, but am told that it is quite an experience. Travis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Travis In Austin Posted September 1, 2009 Author Moderators Share Posted September 1, 2009 Roy said he won't ever do another exotic plywood pair againNever say never That is so true, however, I wanted people to know up front that it was a pretty strong NEVER so folks should know that going in. I tried to get Roy to do a matching 884 Pro Cinema Sub (aka, The Beast) and you should have heard the laughing on the other end. I figure in about 5 to 10 years he will forget the headaches he had to go through and if he is caught in another moment of weakness will again agree to do some again. Never say never, but timing IS EVERYTHING. Travis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Travis In Austin Posted September 1, 2009 Author Moderators Share Posted September 1, 2009 Really Really beautiful Travis, enjoy them suckers. BTW, hows the port plugs working??? They are the cutest plugs I've seen. Those port plugs are acoustically transparent acording to my wife, I figure if she knew that term it must be true. Travis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Travis In Austin Posted September 1, 2009 Author Moderators Share Posted September 1, 2009 Wow Travis! Congratulations! Did you compare them to the speakers I sent you? The little green ones? The ones you sent me are superior to the Jubes in every respect, save and except one-the size of the sweet spot on yours are slightly lacking, although the high end with yours is a bit more full bodied. I will try and post some pictures of yours when we had them up running an A/B comparison with the Compirator I had on loan. Travis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Travis In Austin Posted September 1, 2009 Author Moderators Share Posted September 1, 2009 I am in the process of building grilles for the bass bins. Next is building cabinets for the K402s. Looking forward to seeing both of those additions Kudret. Maybe you can share your grillle plans with Luther and I to give us an head start. Luther was originally thinging of drilling the plywood to use for some rare-earth mags to hold them on, but I think he said he is looking at another approach now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Travis In Austin Posted September 1, 2009 Author Moderators Share Posted September 1, 2009 Top Notch!!!! My 2nd Top Notch in as many months, only thing better than receiving one of those is a two word verdict. Thanks JB Travis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebes Posted September 1, 2009 Share Posted September 1, 2009 Let the record show that the defendant, a certain Travis McGee, did doth personifically declaim and place upon the record that he is firmly of the opinion that a largish sub is required to bring the Jubs to their penultimator height of achievement. The State of Mind will upon rebuttal show without a doubt, and without using a single word of Latin, that a Jub is decidedly Jubilacious without the use of a sub. Indeed the State of Mind will move that the court issue a Restraining Order, barring a sub from being within 300 yards of a Jub. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Travis In Austin Posted September 1, 2009 Author Moderators Share Posted September 1, 2009 please list your equip in profile, DWI man what other horns did you consider? List my equipment? And leave a paper/e trail for my wife to follow, are you serious? You may not recall, she is Silcilian, very good at saving my money. I apply lipstick to my collar when I am about to purchase something just to throw her off track for awhile. (Yes, they really do sleep with one eye open). I was either going to get Pallidums, or 3 LS's across the front with some sort of subs that Trey was telling me about, or B&W 802s I believe they were (about same price as Pallidums). The big issue on the whole deal was there was no corner for the right front speaker because I would have loved to put Anniv Khorns in there. Nor was their room to do a false wall. I went to Hope in June of '07 to listen to them with Roy, he set them up in corners at first and them set them up how they would be configured in my room, there was very little difference between the two set ups. While I was there I saw a pair of prototype Pallidums which I was not supposed to see. As you may recall, they were not announced until Sept. of that year. Roy said that about all he could say was they were going to compete in the high end market with the likes of B&W, etc., was not sure on pricing, something like in the 20's etc. After listening to the Jubes in Hope I placed an order for Jubes I wanted the raw plywood so I could have them painted with a piano laq. finish with a nice center veneer . I wanted the horns painted. Roy thought all of those things could be done and submitted it, however, it was a very busy time for Pro-Cinema and at some point in the chain they were nixed as being unable to accomodate. So I decided to wait until the Pallidums came out to see how they sounded because my wife would probaby prefer them over the jubes because of the looks even though they would be about twice as much. When Klipsch formally anounced the Pallidums they indicated they would be on display at the home audio/theater installers show (CEDA?) in Denver. I sent Roy an email saying I was going to go listen to the Pallidums in Denver and asked if he was going to be at the show. He sent me an email back saying I should save my money because he was still waiting to finalize a driver, or port, or something, and he wasn't sure what was going to be in Denver but it wasn't going to be production Pallidums because he was still ironing out an issue. As it turns out they had a dummy pair at that show. So I woud inquire of Amy from time to time on the status, and there was not a lot of info available to her. Then I thought I would check them out at CES in Jan. of '08. As I recall I was told by Amy or someone that the P's were not ready at that point either and there would not be a set available to listen to is CES. I figured if they were not available at CES it was going to be awhile for them to come out. I read a couple of interviews about the Pallidums on the Klipsch Corner and after reading that and talking with Roy, Dean and some others I decided to go with the Jubes because Roy felt that he could go with exotic plywood. So I ordered them sometime in March or April of '08 I believe. So that was the consideration involved in selecting them and what else was being considered. Travis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Travis In Austin Posted September 1, 2009 Author Moderators Share Posted September 1, 2009 Let the record show that the defendant, a certain Travis McGee, did doth personifically declaim and place upon the record that he is firmly of the opinion that a largish sub is required to bring the Jubs to their penultimator height of achievement. The State of Mind will upon rebuttal show without a doubt, and without using a single word of Latin, that a Jub is decidedly Jubilacious without the use of a sub. Indeed the State of Mind will move that the court issue a Restraining Order, barring a sub from being within 300 yards of a Jub. Res Ipsa No sub needed, expect for man made created sound effects from movies (LFE) They will handle any and all musical instruments. Travis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Travis In Austin Posted September 1, 2009 Author Moderators Share Posted September 1, 2009 please list your equip in profile, DWI man Wait, ignore previous respone regarding equipment list, let me borrow a tip from an old pro: Active bi-amp on big-er [new] horns with tubes on mid & highs (K69/402 Horn), s-s on bass bin! (DCR-KHJ) Travis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg928gts Posted September 1, 2009 Share Posted September 1, 2009 ...By cutting off the flange you may be eliminating a necessary "boundary" when the wavefront leaves the mouth and goes into free space... The second issue is whether you would be compromising the structural rigidity of the horn itself. That flange may actually prevent some flexing...Just here to second these two points that Tom makes. You would think that you need to look in Beranek to see the effects of this bit of advice. And I would run some structural stiffness calculations to see any structural effects. I don't think that Roy put those flanges there just for mounting the K402 to a piece of plywood behind a screen. This brings up a more general response: It occurs to me that one probably doesn't buy Jubs because they are necessarily pretty. "Pretty" is more like a Khorn or something with a European heritage... Chris Oh, for crying out loud. Those flanges are there solely for the purpose of mounting flexibility in various commercial applications. These aren't hooty tooty audiophile speakers, they're big ol horns. I can assure you, there would be absolutely no audible difference with or without the flanges. Besides, just tweak the EQ! The horn would be fine structurally without the flanges, the plastic is thick and very stiff. If one was concerned about it, a frame could be attached to the back of the horn to help stiffen it. Put them on a table saw, face down, and cut the ugly flanges off. Sand the edges and re-mount the horn lower, perhaps even with the front lip down over the front of the bass bins. The aesthetic improvement would be dramatic. I've almost done this to mine a few times, just too many other things going on all the time. Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrestonTom Posted September 1, 2009 Share Posted September 1, 2009 Well Greg, you seem convinced that it is a great idea with no possibility of a downside. Then by all means go for it. I know, why not just tear up one of your horns on your table saw and keep the other one intact. Then you can listen to them side by side. You could even look at them side by side and rejoice in just how much smaller they look after this circumcision. Heck why not take some acoustical measures and photos. I think after a nice coat of paint, Travis's horns are going to look great. Flange and all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wardsweb Posted September 1, 2009 Share Posted September 1, 2009 Heinz, I beleive thos are the ones, they look very similar. I will get Luther to send me the guy's set up and I will post that photo. The one thing I remember is that they have Plasma tweeters, which I have never had the chance to hear, but am told that it is quite an experience. Travis Fred has Acapella Triolon, among other things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 There can be internal stresses on the part depending on how the material is flowed and how the tool is pulled off, etc.... I'm still a green engineer, but I have already learned the hard way at work that you can't necessarily cut off "useless" flanges. It twisted the crap out of one of our prototypes. We knew it was a possible problem, and sure enough it reared its ugly head. No regrets because we had to do the mod, but an interesting lesson nonetheless. Also, EQ won't fix a reflection off the mouth. That last few inches is where the bubble (to borrow some of Roy's terminology) releases from the horn...kinda like your bubble wand thing when blowing bubbles. If you cut off any of the material on your wand, it's not going to make as nice of bubbles, which means turbulence...and that means distortion. Are there structural ribs running down the length of the horn? I don't recall ever seeing any. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Islander Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 Are there structural ribs running down the length of the horn? I don't recall ever seeing any. There are definitely structural ribs running down the top and bottom of the K510 horns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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