Upgrading from KL-650's ??? Khorns???

[tragusa3]

I'm using three KL650's for my front three, in a 5000cf room. My subs are a pair of the Danley DTS-10's. Amplifier is an Emotiva XPA5. My listening preferences are nearly 100% movies, although I do a fair amount of concert Blurays. I usually listen with SPL peaks around 105db, with the occassional goofing around at 120db.

My question is a bit scattered, but scattered opinions will suffice.

I was pleased with the KL650's until the Danley's arrived, and now feel like they are my weak link. Although they will play well up to reference volumes, they don't give me confidence that they are doing it in a "relaxed" fashion. I few months ago, I had a failure in the compression driver of my center channel. That started this process of researching an upgrade.

Speakers are behind an AT screen and appearance doesn't factor in. About the only limitation is a 24" depth.

I'd like to do this as affordably as possible, which means if the KL650's could be salvaged I would like to. I'm still in need of rear surrounds, and one possiblity is to move two of them there.

I'm willing to consider anything, but this is my initial thought. Find a pair of Khorns to use for front left and right. Use one of my KL650's for a center. Move the other two KL650's to the rear.

Another option might be Khorns with a LaScala center. but that leaves me hunting down the single LaScala and finding a home for one of my KL650's.

I have a buddy with Khorns, and I feel the KL650's compare well to them. The Khorns do seem more "revealing". But differences could be due to our rooms.

Or should I give up on Klipsch and look towards some of the JBL cinema line?

Maybe I should just be satisfied unless I'm willing to really open the wallet??? Which I'm not.

Like I said, random thoughts. But any comments are input would be helpful.

[Trey Cannon]

Good questions. What you want is a bigger fan...

The KL-650 has a spec when in the entire system of 120db in a 3000 cubic Ft room from 20 -20kH.

Your room is a bit large for that speaker to make that volume level. There are many options. I would be looking in our pro line.

KPT-325 or KPT-Jubilee535 and get 3 of them...LCR

the 650 will be ok for surrounds. You will have to use a DSP unit for crossover or build a passive. I think we can help with that...we may even have a passive net for them. I am not sure on that as I work in the Home product side of things.

[Kain]

I know this is a Klipsch forum, but if you really want the best home theater performance, look into Seaton Sound speakers.

http://www.seaton-sound-forum.com/

Also read about them on the AVS Forum.

[CECAA850]

I know this is a Klipsch forum, but if you really want the best home theater performance, look into Seaton Sound speakers.

http://www.seaton-sound-forum.com/

Also read about them on the AVS Forum.

$3500.00 + shipping PER SPEAKER?? Really? The OP said affordable.

[tragusa3]

Thanks Trey. So I truely am expecting too much from the 650....bummer. 90% of my listening is within it's spec, but I do want that extra ability. I did search the pro line, but found it difficult to track down a seller and pricing. I'll have to try harder. I really don't want the budget to go higher than 1k per speaker. Used Khorns fit that category. Maybe I can track down a used market for the KPT line? Any suggestions on where to start looking?

You lost me with the "passive net" comments. Not sure what that is. My processor has crossover points for the surrounds, so I can limit the 650's that way.

Trey, do you have any comments on Khorns meeting my goals better than the 650's? Are they designed for higher SPL's in my size space?

I am fairly familiar with other options such as Seaton, JTR, JBL. The Catalysts are out of my budget. The JTR triple 8's and 12's are probably obtainable if I really wanted. I was just trying to stick with Klipsch since I already have an investment and wanted to keep the sonic character. JBL's pro line is actually fairly affordable. I've just never heard them in person.

Thanks for all the input so far.

[CECAA850]

You lost me with the "passive net" comments. Not sure what that is. My processor has crossover points for the surrounds, so I can limit the 650's that way.

The speakers he's referring to do not have crossovers. You'd need either an active (adjustable, electronic) or passive, like what's in your current speakers.

[Trey Cannon]

I know this is a Klipsch forum, but if you really want the best home theater performance, look into Seaton Sound speakers.

http://www.seaton-sound-forum.com/

Also read about them on the AVS Forum.

Please!

No way can their stuff keep up with Klipsch when compairing = speakers.

IF they could, they would hold more than 50 % of the US Cinema and 60% of Asia and South Amreica new houses instead of Klipsch.

We are and have been the leader in Cinema sound for years.

As for a place to get the pro line....Contact our customer service and they can get you in contact with a Klipsch sales rep for your area. He can hook you up with a dealer you can buy from.

Khorns will do the job no problem, IF you have a corner or can build one for the speakers. They must have one to work.

The La Scala may be a better choice. No corner needed and will reach the volume you want no problem...

Don't forget your amps...your biggest and best friend in something like this is "HEADROOM" I use a factor of 5...If I need 20Watts to reach the volume I want, I use a 100 Watt amp.

1-800-554-7724

[Groomlakearea51]

Don't forget your amps...your biggest and best friend in something like this is "HEADROOM" I use a factor of 5...If I need 20Watts to reach the volume I want, I use a 100 Watt amp.

[Y] Probably the most overlooked factor by folks looking for speakers and amps. 5/1 is s great working ratio to plan for! A pair of K'horns, for example, in a moderate sized room, will "hurt you" with only about 10 watts averaging. It's the transient peaks that need the 100 watts+ to make it work nicely.

[Kain]

I know this is a Klipsch forum, but if you really want the best home theater performance, look into Seaton Sound speakers.

http://www.seaton-sound-forum.com/

Also read about them on the AVS Forum.

Please!

No way can their stuff keep up with Klipsch when compairing = speakers.

IF they could, they would hold more than 50 % of the US Cinema and 60% of Asia and South Amreica new houses instead of Klipsch.

We are and have been the leader in Cinema sound for years.

As for a place to get the pro line....Contact our customer service and they can get you in contact with a Klipsch sales rep for your area. He can hook you up with a dealer you can buy from.

Khorns will do the job no problem, IF you have a corner or can build one for the speakers. They must have one to work.

The La Scala may be a better choice. No corner needed and will reach the volume you want no problem...

Don't forget your amps...your biggest and best friend in something like this is "HEADROOM" I use a factor of 5...If I need 20Watts to reach the volume I want, I use a 100 Watt amp.

1-800-554-7724

Okay, I don't want to start a flame-war here, but I think you simply do not know anything about Seaton Sound speakers. "No way they can keep up with Klipsch" you say? Have you heard of their Catalyst speaker? It consists of 8" coaxial midrange with a Neodymium compression tweeter plus two 12" sealed woofers. Secondly, this speaker is TRI-amplified internally. 300 watts powering the tweeter, 700 watts powering the midrange, and 1000 watts powering the 12" woofers. This speaker can hit 130 dB.

Click the following link to see the Catalyst: http://www.seaton-sound-forum.com/post?id=3044980

Secondly, you said that since Seaton Sound (which is a new compay by the way, I think started in 2005 or around there) does not produce speakers for movie theaters they must "suck." With this "conclusion" of yours, I guess it is safe to say that Renault cars are superior to Porsche cars simply because Renault participates in Formula One while Porsche does not.

Lastly, visit the Seaton Sound forum and/or the AVS Forum to see how Seaton Sound speakers are rated by USERS not reviewers. There are a number of Klipsch owners who have converted to Seaton Sound or JTR (which is another compay like Seaton Sound).

Again, not starting a flam-war, just stating the facts. By the way, I actually do own Klipsch speakers. And not just any Klipsch speakers, but the RF-7s and I in fact do think they are good speakers.

[Kain]

Read this post from the AVS Forum:

My turn. Seaton Catalysts...the 12 inchers

I've always favored dynamic capabilities as my main criteria for

speakers. My heros growing up were my Dad and Brad Miller of Mobile

Fidelity fame, both of which made stereo recording of trains.

I inherited this bug and began making field recordings as well. To

reproduce these recordings in room, one needed output and headroom in

spades. So my interests in speakers for the home have always meant high

output designs.

I've had the usual suspects, including Polk, Cerwin-Vega, JBL, Klipsch,

DIY, and even pro gear in our house. Pro gear being real pro gear, TAD

tops and JBL (2)15 subs.

For years I coveted B&W 808s, that's the one I wanted....never

happened. They were 3 or 4k a cabinet, and several hundred pounds

(B&W understood cabinet coloration and built the best cabs of the

day).

Fast forward to today; Mark Seaton Catalysts appeals to me greatly. I've

got to hear them once my funding is in place, but that is my plan.

Freedom from dynamic restrictions from marginal gear is my holy grail.

Never forget one experience that solidified my interest in high end home

audio; HiFi Buys Indianapolis, late 70s/early 80s, Vic Suarez salesman,

sat me in front of some electrostatics, maybe Acoustat, played some

finely recorded acoustic guitar at a very moderate level... I was blown

away w/realism and transparency. I ask him to turn it up to a realistic

level.... he said "that's it, that's as loud as those will comfortably

play". I got up quickly and thought that's crazy...and ever since I've

searched for speakers capable of proper sense of dynamic scale.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=18855460#post18855460

[Trey Cannon]

An answer is not worth my time.

[seti]

Just based on the price I must say the Klipsch Pro line would be the bargain and I would bet their performance is far superior.The selection from the pro cinema line is vast and very interesting.

One of my new faves. KPT-942

Pro line.

http://www.klipsch.com/na-en/products/cinema-speaker/

[garyrc]

What is the sensitivity of the various Seatons in dB @ 1M @ 2.83 volts?

[SilverSport]

...since we are talking about Theater speakers (home or otherwise) wouldn't a better analogy be that it is like comparing two race car manufacturers but one is not winning???...

Bill

I know this is a Klipsch forum, but if you really want the best home theater performance, look into Seaton Sound speakers.

http://www.seaton-sound-forum.com/

Also read about them on the AVS Forum.

Please!

No way can their stuff keep up with Klipsch when compairing = speakers.

IF they could, they would hold more than 50 % of the US Cinema and 60% of Asia and South Amreica new houses instead of Klipsch.

We are and have been the leader in Cinema sound for years.

As for a place to get the pro line....Contact our customer service and they can get you in contact with a Klipsch sales rep for your area. He can hook you up with a dealer you can buy from.

Khorns will do the job no problem, IF you have a corner or can build one for the speakers. They must have one to work.

The La Scala may be a better choice. No corner needed and will reach the volume you want no problem...

Don't forget your amps...your biggest and best friend in something like this is "HEADROOM" I use a factor of 5...If I need 20Watts to reach the volume I want, I use a 100 Watt amp.

1-800-554-7724

Okay, I don't want to start a flame-war here, but I think you simply do not know anything about Seaton Sound speakers. "No way they can keep up with Klipsch" you say? Have you heard of their Catalyst speaker? It consists of 8" coaxial midrange with a Neodymium compression tweeter plus two 12" sealed woofers. Secondly, this speaker is TRI-amplified internally. 300 watts powering the tweeter, 700 watts powering the midrange, and 1000 watts powering the 12" woofers. This speaker can hit 130 dB.

Click the following link to see the Catalyst: http://www.seaton-sound-forum.com/post?id=3044980

Secondly, you said that since Seaton Sound (which is a new compay by the way, I think started in 2005 or around there) does not produce speakers for movie theaters they must "suck." With this "conclusion" of yours, I guess it is safe to say that Renault cars are superior to Porsche cars simply because Renault participates in Formula One while Porsche does not.

Lastly, visit the Seaton Sound forum and/or the AVS Forum to see how Seaton Sound speakers are rated by USERS not reviewers. There are a number of Klipsch owners who have converted to Seaton Sound or JTR (which is another compay like Seaton Sound).

Again, not starting a flam-war, just stating the facts. By the way, I actually do own Klipsch speakers. And not just any Klipsch speakers, but the RF-7s and I in fact do think they are good speakers.

[laager]

Your room is a bit large for that speaker to make that volume level. There are many options. I would be looking in our pro line.

KPT-325 or KPT-Jubilee535 and get 3 of them...LCR

Trey, are you seriously suggesting a Jube front end (L+C+R) for a 5000 cubic foot room? That volume isn't very big. Isn't such a Jube front end just a little bit excessive for that volume?

[tragusa3]

I see now that Ultra2 certification is for up to a 3000cf space. Don't know how I miss purchased the first time, but I knew my goals, and the KL650's don't meet them. I suppose it was reading all the rave reviews, some of which I remember stating that they were limitless.....well, I suppose that comes from people with smaller spaces and overly excited about their new purchase.

Trey, I'll call customer service and try the path you're suggesting. I have no idea of the budget needed for the KPT line, but will find out I suppose. I stated earlier that the Seaton's were out of budget, so I assume these suggestions fall into a lower price point.

In the end, I can't help but think some used Khorns would be the most affordable route to an improvement. Trey, can corner load them. But would likely find a LaScala for center duty. A more direct question, is how does the Khorns ability to fill large spaces differ from that of the KL-650's? I don't want to waste efforts on a sideways step or marginal improvement.

[garyrc]

How far are the listening chairs from your speakers? Although room size is an important consideration, moving the listeners closer to the speakers in any room will usually increase the SPL, unless they are sitting in an important null. If you have 3 channels in front, you can move fairly close.

[tragusa3]

Gary, my seating distances are pretty much set. Risers are constructed. Third row bar is constructed. Etc. Seating distances are also set by the screensize, which is already in place.

Front row is 12'. Middle is 19'. And rear is 24'. Middle row is the primary.

[garyrc]

Gary, my seating distances are pretty much set. Risers are constructed. Third row bar is constructed. Etc. Seating distances are also set by the screensize, which is already in place.

Front row is 12'. Middle is 19'. And rear is 24'. Middle row is the primary.

Well, if it won't go loud enough from the 12' row, with some headroom, then you do need new speakers.

My Khorns and Belle center could probably handle it but if I had it to do over, I'd look into the Jubs + for movies, a good sub, or perhaps two subs cutting as low as tests in the room verify is sufficient..

[tragusa3]

My primary concern is really for the 19' row. So I want loud enough (plus headroom) at that distance.

It's not just volume, but there is a "big" sound that I'm after. I do have very capable subs. I'm using a pair of the Danley DTS-10's. They have this "big" sound. From what I can tell with my buddies Khorns, they also have a "big" sound. The KL650's can pretty well match them in SPL's, but the KL's just lack that intangible.

Gary, can you expand a bit on your thinking of why you might do Jubs if you did it over again. What is your room size and listening habits? Where do you feel your current setup has shortcomings?

Based on price alone, I'm also researching the JBL pro screen array series. Like the 3722's. They have some popularity on AVS forum from folks that have experience with all the above mentioned. Still need to get in touch with Klipsch, but my gut is telling me the pro Klipsch are not in my price point.