Bass frequency response of various sized Klipsch speakers

[wboffthelake]

I'm new to the forums and just ordered a pair of RF-83s to be delievered on Friday. I'm a big 2-channel listener and it is important to me to have audible low bass (mid and upper 20 Hz's) for the deepest portions of "chestiness" of male vocals and low bass guitar, along with accurate and precise high treble for cymbals. I also wanted to avoid using a subwoofer while listening to 2 channel.

While I was looking over the specs for all Klipsch speakers I was surprised that the biggest speakers, with respect to both driver and cabinet size, were not the ones with the lowest frequency response. In fact the RF-83s, at 29 Hz, had the lowest frequency response of any speaker currently on the website, while behemoths like the Cornwall III, La Scala II, Klipshorn are each 34 Hz, 51 Hz, 33Hz respectively. I looked up the old Chorus II and found that, while it has a 15 in active and passive driver, its response is only 39 Hz. The RF-7 is listed at 32 Hz. I thought it might have something to do with the newer woofer designs but even the uber-speaker P-39F, with the most expensive and largest total woofer area, and apparently the largest cabinet volume, is only 39 Hz. The P39-f does list a low frequency extension of 28 Hz, and, while it doesn't say, I assume this is +/- 9dB. "Low frequency extension" is not listed for any of the other floorstanders I listed above. I wonder why?

I understand that, ignoring individual room conditions, bass response has a lot to do driver area and cabinet engineering/size. Simply put, larger driver and bigger (if properly sized) cabinet=lower bass, but there seems to be no pattern, no rhyme nor reason to the low frequency responses here. Any thoughts?

[DTLongo]

That male-voice "chestiness" and low bass guitar that you want are in the 40-70 hz. range, so your speakers that go down to 29 hz. should be adequate. You may want to apply bass boost on your amp or preamp or equalizer, though, depending on how your room works acoustically and how your own ears hear. Don't rule out using a powered subwoofer for the really low stuff below 45 hz. A good sub set at a proper (moderate) level won't muddy up your main speakers at all but will definitely be there when below-40 hz. material requires. I use a subwoofer with Klipschorns!

[pzannucci]

I understand that, ignoring individual room conditions, bass response has a lot to do driver area and cabinet engineering/size. Simply put, larger driver and bigger (if properly sized) cabinet=lower bass, but there seems to be no pattern, no rhyme nor reason to the low frequency responses here. Any thoughts?

It is not as easy as "Larger driver .... = lower bass" That depends on the driver. I will buy that larger driver may equal MORE bass. There are a number of drivers that are small that have very good low bass capability. The problem is that due to their small size, can not output large amounts of low bass since that would require either a larger cone or higher excursion. The key with low bass is the amount of air displacement the driver/cabinet combination is capable of. Also, the parameters of the smaller speaker to go that low typically will come with an associated lowering in efficiency (heavier cone and such).

The higher the efficiency, the typical norm will be higher fs / resonant frequency thus not allowing large amounts lower frequency bass compared to the output of the higher frequencies of the driver - above fs. They do have size going for them which allows for moving a lot of air at those higher fequencies making them capable of playing louder. Getting low with large drivers will typically require a HUGE box which most people don't buy any more so less and less drivers becoming available have this capability, especially coupled with high efficiency.

[Ironsave]

A good sub set at a proper (moderate) level won't muddy up your main speakers at all but will definitely be there when below-40 hz. material requires. I use a subwoofer with Klipschorns!

+1!!!

Now that I have a pretty accurate and musical sub; I am using it with music and loving it.... A cheap sub WILL muddy up the low end; and the overall experience will suffer.....

So the key is.... a GOOD sub..... It can make all of the difference......

[]

Good Luck.

[Blvdre]

Pete's got it. You can have either low cut-off, or high efficiency, but generally speaking, not both.

[Frank1938]

So the key is.... a GOOD sub..... It can make all of the difference......

So true. I have been using Velodyne subs for over 20 years with all kinds of Klipsch speakers, even with the Corwall IIIs that are capable of putting out some good bass on their own. Crossover is set at 40 and works seamlessly.

Frank

[Zen Traveler]

So the key is.... a GOOD sub..... It can make all of the difference......

So true. I have been using Velodyne subs for over 20 years with all kinds of Klipsch speakers, even with the Corwall IIIs that are capable of putting out some good bass on their own. Crossover is set at 40 and works seamlessly.

Frank

+3 [Y]

I have my RF-7s crossed at 60 Hz with the lower end being brought up by my Klipsch RSW subs and they blend seamlessly.

[jcm]

Totally in agreement. A good sub enhances the experience for all kinds of music, not just home theater and techno/rap.

I am playing Dire Straits' "The Man's too Strong" on my khorns right now, and turning on the sub at a 40Hz crossover really adds dynamics and oomph to the refrain.

I use a JL Audio sub, which I find meets the dynamic response of Klipsch's speakers very well.

[SWL]

Subwoofer user here! []

A good sub implemented properly enhances everything. The key word is "properly".......otherwise it can degrade the system drastically.

[wboffthelake]

Thanks for all your responses. For 2-channel with your sub, do you run your fronts as small with a low crossover like 50 Hz, or as large (full range) with the sub in "plus" mode?

My sub is an ED A3-300. ED recommends a crossover of 50-60 Hz. My receiver only has 50, 80, 100, 150 and 200 for crossovers. Running the fronts small with a sub and the lowest crossover always seemed to make the most sense, but my sub always seems much more audible and powerful (vibrating the floor) at 80 Hz than 50 Hz. With my current speakers, Polk Monitor 70s, strangely, running them small at any crossover seemed to diminish the overall sound quality, so I always ran them large and sub on plus at 80 Hz for maximum effect. Has anyone else found the same to be true with their speakers?

Also, just how pleased do you think I am going to be on Friday when I replace my Monitor 70s with RF-83s? I was never entirely happy with the M70s. My biggest complaint was always their inefficiency - 90dB. Also the "laid back" quality just didn't make the sound, especially cymbals, as "alive" as I would like.

[Ironsave]

First, since my Heresies start rolling off around 50hz; I cross at 60hz, with them set to small.

This sounds SO GOOD....... Seamless extension......

Before, I had a Klipsch KSW10, and with the "small" setting, the sound became worse.... The sub was muddy with much of my music and the listening experience was degraded; so I used Large and 80hz, but often times would turn the sub off for music.

(I listen to fast paced metal, very demanding with blast beats; etc.....)

You own an excellent sub, so you will probably benefit from going "small" and crossing at 50, your 83s can go much lower than my Heresies.... They should sound great with lots of natural bass...... and your sub should extend it further.......

The fun will be experimenting; there is no right or wrong; only what is right to your ears.......

You will LOVE your new speakers, not nearly as laid back and MUCH MORE EFFICIENT......

Please post pictures and/or a review of your experience listening to them.......

GOOD LUCK! []

[dtel]

I agree, I use a sub also, and it's with the biggest bass bins Klipsch has ever made.

[Arky]

I agree, I use a sub also, and it's with the biggest bass bins Klipsch has ever made.

You sound like JC.[]

[DTLongo]

"The fun will be experimenting; there is no right or wrong; only what is right to your ears......."

AMEN to that! Have fun. With my Klipschorns I'm running my Velodyne sub at 70 hz. crossover with its volume knob at about 3.5 to 4 on a scale of 1-10 and with the Khorns set to Large (of course) and the processor sub output set to Plus. Mostly the sub is inaudible but on deep low stuff makes its presence known without at all muddying up the super-clear Klipschorns & Belle. I listen mostly to classical and that's my standard sub setting for such. It's good to be able to crank the Velo when the source material is bass-shy. On pop/rock music I sometimes dial the Velo volume down to almost nil. The Khorns are that good but still benefit from what the Velo adds below 40 hz.

P.S. Please post your intial impressions of the RF-83's after you have them, and then again in a couple of weeks or so after you've had time to settle in with them.

[fini]

I agree, I use a sub also, and it's with the biggest bass bins Klipsch has ever made.

You sound like JC.

Yep. WWJD...as found in the Sermon on the Driver Mounts, I think...[]

[dtel]

I agree, I use a sub also, and it's with the biggest bass bins Klipsch has ever made.

You sound like JC.

Yep. WWJD...as found in the Sermon on the Driver Mounts, I think...

Fini you are getting crazier by the day.........[Y]

[fini]

Yeah, I was so normal a few years back...

[dtel]

I agree, I use a sub also, and it's with the biggest bass bins Klipsch has ever made.

You sound like JC.

I wish Arky, and JC would cry if he heard that [] I have met him a few times and got to know him a tiny bit, he's has more resting brain cells than I use at full speed ! [:S]

[dtel]

Yeah, I was so normal a few years back...

OK []..........Me to

[dtel]

Edit; now how did I make a double post, it's not supposed to let you do that anymore ?