SSnyder Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 I am reading like and diss-likes on here butt nobody is doing it sciencetifically . . . . . YOU must not see what you are judgeing and to a lessor degree nether can the helper setting up the test>>>>>>>> best expers in the world are found to be no better then chanse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest " " Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 thats right....and all variables must be understood and captured and given metrics so that the test can be repeatable in exact states or recognized that later iterations are not exact states from the prior one. AC wall Line voltages need to be recorded so that the next iteration is done at a time that the AC line voltage was the same as the prior one. Magnetic influences need to be accounted for so that the next iteration can be done under the same magnetic influence as the prior one. So the alignment of the planets and their associated magnetic influence would require that the next iteration be done exactly one year later from the prior one due to the positioning re-occurance needed to repeat the magnetic influence assuming of course that the AC line voltages were the same. But then again, now that you ears are one year older and/or your instruments are now one year later into their calibration schedule, a variance will need to be computed to account for the deviations. Now that you have a variance, you need some iterations that are repeatable to test the accuracy of your predictions using the variances. OR, you can just have a few beers and enjoy the music. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennie Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 My ears aren't all that scientific! But, if DBT works for your ears, more power to you! Dennie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russ69 Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 I am reading like and diss-likes on here butt nobody is doing it sciencetifically . . . . . Wrong. It takes a long time to evaluate a system change. It may require listening to a wide range of music, speaker placement changes, subwoofer integration or perhaps some cabling changes. An opinion is formed over time, then compared to the previous piece of equipment. A judgement is then made as to the value of the change. Small changes can be subtle and can be totally missed with blind testing. It's well documented that DBT does not distinguish small differences. Big differences don't even need DB testing, it's too obvious. You'll be much better off listening to a wide range of equipment and gaining experiencing than you will ever achieve wasting your time performing double blind test scenarios. Listening is not science, we use science to see if our perceptions can somehow be quantified. So far, we still have to trust our ears...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hifi jim Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 Well said Russ. [Y] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSnyder Posted January 16, 2011 Author Share Posted January 16, 2011 It's well documented that DBT does not distinguish small differences. I submitt because small diffrences DONT" MATTER >>>>>> butt the small diffrences can cost you a arm and a leg +++ now I wouldnt' go too an extreme on EVERY THING dbt butt I am cofident that the human can be tricked by known in advance what is SUPOSED TO SOUND BEST! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wuzzzer Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSnyder Posted January 16, 2011 Author Share Posted January 16, 2011 That is corect in France probably where photo was tooken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 Noo worrd iss vallid unless itt hass doubble letters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluBitRates Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 I have been switching around alot of equipment lately. I have been very surprised at the difference in sound each piece gives. That sort of thing really does not help the sickness that we have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 Noo worrd iss vallid unless itt hass doubble letters. IItt''ss kkiinnddaa ooff aa bbiittcchh ttyyppiinngg tthhiiss wwaayy...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russ69 Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 Well said Russ. I don't know what happened, I had a brief moment of clarity, I guess? LOL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators dtel Posted January 17, 2011 Moderators Share Posted January 17, 2011 Not blind but one eye is pretty bad and I should wear my glasses, does that count ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djk Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 See signature below. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwinr Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 The difference in sound between two similar pieces of equipment is very difficult to discern, and most people wouldn't be able to tell the difference in a DBT. Being perfectly honest, I would tend to choose the piece of equipment that looks better and is popular. Why? It's easy to sell if I don't like it. And anyway, I get more more satisfaction looking at my Hog in the garage rather than some yamaharley - even though they both do the same job... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacksonbart Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 Eye Lik Gud moosic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 See signature below. I think a more related example for your signature would be: "Audiophile hit with a feather...'OW! Why did you hit me with a brick?' Tin Ear dude: 'Stop being a panzy. Besides, what you normally enjoy is in fact an entire wall of bricks pouring over you'" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JL Sargent Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 Are you kidding me. Think of the economy here. If we DBT everything, the lost revenue would kill whats left of the electromatic flux that surrounds all unproven audio sales. Immediately all the exotics would be worthless! No more expensive cables, carts, caps, wire, record clamps, wild audio specific connectors that don't do S#^T. Long live audiophile quality tube amps presently priced for several thousand bucks that equate to a SEP tube amp pulled out of a old 60s Magnavox console. [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigCliff Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 Noo worrd iss vallid unless itt hass doubble letters. IItt''ss kkiinnddaa ooff aa bbiittcchh ttyyppiinngg tthhiiss wwaayy...... Not if your keyboard sticks[] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauln Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 Steve, The double blind is based on the threshold of perception. A lot of the "everything matters" folks are not trying to claim that they can hear "under the threshold". What they often mean is that various combinations of things that are individually under the htreshold when combined may cause an effect to emrge above the threshold and be heard. The problem is that tweaking around may make this happen but you don't know which one caused the perceptual change. And because of system differences, other "everything matters" folks may agree or disagree about the effect of the same tweak. Most folks aknowledge the "everything matters" idea by rolling it into the concept of synergy - some combos of equipment and adjustments will "happen" and others won't. And sometimes they get irritated by the DBT folks when it is claimed that something can't make a difference (in isolation - the isolation and control of the experimental condition is part of the DBT methodology). And, there may be other things going on. Just the other evening I read where it has been discovered that people listen to music with a preferred ear. Now most people know that we have a dominant eye, but this preferred ear is different because it changes depending on the music. What was found is that we have a preferred ear for listening to music with which we are familiar, but with new strange music we switch to the other ear. This is something that is not considered in the design of DBT. The suggestion was that our ear for familiar music would be the one that "scores well" in listening test, but the other ear probably would not. Just an example of a lot of things that keep some folks from taking the DBT too seriously... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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