Just Installed Crites 4500 Networks and CT-125 Tweeters in La Scalas

[paul32579]

...and I don't know WHAT to think.

You see, I don't have a reference point as to what properly-operating original LSs are supposed to sound like. I know the caps on the '76 AAs and who knows what else were absolutely shot.

I have some 1991 Khorns, and they haven't been abused too much, so I suppose they'd be ok for comparison, right?

(Bob also rebuilt the K-33 drivers, and his woofers replaced the originals.)

OK, playing them both together, then A, then B, on a Sansui G-8000: Hmm. The old Khorns are definitely missing something. It's like the mids and highs are muted. The LSs have mid and highs that jump out at you. Very clear sound, nicely balanced, but I seem to want more treble than with the K-77s. Then again, sometimes not.

Hmm. Back to the Khorns. These have a more delicate sound, maybe it's because of the K-77s being so sensitive, but there's still majic there, even if it isn't as loud and is less clear and well-balanced than the "new" LSs. Back to A+B. Gosh, does that sound good. I don't want to have to do without either. Like the best of both worlds.

So, are these upgraded LS still "Klipsches?" Maybe not! I was going to upgrade my Khorns with the 4500 networks and the CT-125s, too, but now I'm not so sure! I'd rebuild all the stock stuff and keep it the way it came from the factory IF I COULD JUST GET MY DAMNED K-77s REBUILT!

I like to think that the new LSs are like the original, just a bit better. For those that have done it, do you agree? Am I missing the sensitivity of the K-77s?

[Guest " "]

it sounds like you are having fun. Not sure if any test would be bullet proof. Lets see, what would be a bullet proof test.....you would need both the old and new installed....a switch to A/B them....BUT...YOU can't be the person to flick the switch....this is called the double blind test.

[tromprof]

I have this same situation, but the other way around. My K-horns have the A/4500 networks and CT-125 tweeters, and the La Scalas are stock except for a Crites A network (which is sort of still stock?). Both sound great, but for me the big difference was the 4500 network. Like you, I am not sure what difference better or worse the tweeters make when I go back a forth between them, but the network really improves an already good midrange. When things improve economy wise I think I will make the switch in the LS' as well. [8-|]

[MookieStl]

I too have the same experience. I switched out my AB crossover in my Belles to the Crites 4500 which meant I almost had to go with the CT125 as that crossover point would test the lower limits of my K-77 s. I also don't know how far gone my old crossovers were (manufactured in '88) but word on the street was that the AB's weren't very good even when new. All I know is that the sound is very much improved to my taste (most of the time). A times they sound wonderful but other times not so much. I keep telling myself that I need to listen to the music more and the speakers less and then I am happy again. It's all about your tastes and there will always be times where you want to try something a little different. All I know is the sound wonderful. There will always be upgrades and updates but at the end of the day, I just want clean undistorted music and that's what I got. Of course that it what I said with my Hersey's and my RB61s and I still went out and got the Belle's.

[ricktate]

I got Crites 4500 mod and cast woofer and the tweet in my Ks .  I also got all stock Scalas except I rebuilt the crossover to spec. Never A_B them since their in different rooms. But I like the tweets in the Ks. Rick

[ZEUS121996]

I'm going to replace the crossovers in my Belles when the 3rd one gets here. IDK, AB-3 or 4500? I really don't want to change the tweets. What does the forum say?

 

TY

 

Mark

[MookieStl]

If you want to keep your tweets, the 4500 is not the right choice as you will likely damage the K77. If cost is the issue, it ends up being very close in price with the 4500 plus the CT125 as the crossover is much less.

[Jeff Penley]

Sorry for stepping on your thread.

Edited April 8, 2015 by Jeff Penley

[jjptkd]

Since you already have both speakers and the upgraded parts can't you install one set in each of your speakers? (1) 4500 / CT125 in (1) Klipschorn and in (1) Scala?

[Marvel]

Sorry for stepping on your thread.

Bob's 4500 crossover wouldn't be correct for the heresy.

[Marvel]

...and I don't know WHAT to think

Most folks, after doing this update/upgrade, need to adjust the crossover to pull the mids down 2-3db. Then the tweeter will seem hot enough and the bass will sound more full. Mine sounded so good I went off to dreamland often while listening.

Bruce

Edited April 8, 2015 by Marvel

[Fjd]

Sorry for stepping on your thread.

 

 

Actually, now that I've looked at this thread more closely, I see it is an old thread from 2011; therefore, I suspect that you are probably not stepping on the OP's current issue in this thread as he has not been back since 2012.

 

 

 

Sorry for stepping on your thread.

Bob's 4500 crossover wouldn't be correct for the heresy.

 

 

 

I mentioned in the other thread that the A/4500 was to replace the Klipsch Type A and the Hersey had something different. 

 

I don't know if Jeff has the Type E or Type E2; however, depending upon what he is trying to achieve, he could do that quick resistor modification to drop the tap and lower the mid ~ 3dB, which seems to satisfy people that don't like the forward sound of the K700. 

 

https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/143194-heresy-i-reducing-squawker-with-autoformer/

 

Look at John Albright's schematic in post #10 in the link below rather than the earlier posts.

 

https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/21969-heresy-crossover-mod-less-bright/page-1

 

 

It all really comes down to what is the issue with the speaker and what would correct it; however, since the K55V is common among the Khorn, Cornwall and Hersey of that time period, if he was going to use the Crites CT125 tweeter, I'm wondering if the modification in these threads below for a change in capacitor value and adding an inductor to the mid driver could be used on a Type E or E2 to lower the crossover point to 4500 Hz?

 

The one thread implies that Bob may have done so on the Cornwall Type B crossover.

 

https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/69659-4500-hz-mod-for-b-and-k-type-aaa-crossovers-with-ct125/

 

https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/67959-optional-crossover-mods-for-the-new-bec-tweeter/?hl=%2Bcrites+%2B4500#entry685167

Edited April 8, 2015 by Fjd

[Jeff Penley]

Sorry for stepping on your thread.

Actually, now that I've looked at this thread more closely, I see it is an old thread from 2011; therefore, I suspect that you are probably not stepping on the OP's current issue in this thread as he has not been back since 2012.

Sorry for stepping on your thread.

Bob's 4500 crossover wouldn't be correct for the heresy.

I mentioned in the other thread that the A/4500 was to replace the Klipsch Type A and the Hersey had something different.

I don't know if Jeff has the Type E or Type E2; however, depending upon what he is trying to achieve, he could do that quick resistor modification to drop the tap and lower the mid ~ 3dB, which seems to satisfy people that don't like the forward sound of the K700.

https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/143194-heresy-i-reducing-squawker-with-autoformer/

Look at John Albright's schematic in post #10 in the link below rather than the earlier posts.

https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/21969-heresy-crossover-mod-less-bright/page-1

It all really comes down to what is the issue with the speaker and what would correct it; however, since the K55V is common among the Khorn, Cornwall and Hersey of that time period, if he was going to use the Crites CT125 tweeter, I'm wondering if the modification in these threads below for a change in capacitor value and adding an inductor to the mid driver could be used on a Type E or E2 to lower the crossover point to 4500 Hz?

The one thread implies that Bob may have done so on the Cornwall Type B crossover.

https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/69659-4500-hz-mod-for-b-and-k-type-aaa-crossovers-with-ct125/

https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/67959-optional-crossover-mods-for-the-new-bec-tweeter/?hl=%2Bcrites+%2B4500#entry685167

Thanks for your help. I'm just curious to try new ways to get that close to perfection sound we all search for.

[Deang]

I'm one of the rare ones that doesn't like being overrun by the sound of a tweeter (which is what I hear when the crossover point is lowered). PK's designs were intended to have the midrange horn carry as much musical content as possible. What actually sounds best to me is the stock network designs, built with vintage type (somewhat lossy) capacitors (paper in oil). The Heresy is actually relatively inexpensive to do, since the capacitor values are so small.

You need six Jensen 2.2uF capacitors, which can be purchased through www.partsconnextion.com No adjustments to the autotransformers are necessary. Adjustments only become necessary when you use low loss polypropylenes, and even after making the adjustments to bring the loudspeaker back into balance, the sound is pretty thin and two-dimensional compared to the paper in oils. Two things are unchanging with this hobby: 1) there is no free lunch, and 2) you get what you pay for.

Edited April 9, 2015 by Crankysoldermeister

[Frzninvt]

I did not care for the sound of the CT-125 at all.  I replaced the K-77M in my center channel first and listened for a couple of weeks to various material.  It seems like some of the Klipsch classic sound was gone, while it extends higher it seems some of the lower registers or tone was lost.  What looks better on paper does not necessarily sound better.  I went back to the K-77M.