Oris 150's have arrived !

[dtel]

....talk amongst yourselves....back to listening.....

Good man [8]

Wow I just checked to see if you had them painted yet and found you were way past that point . [H]

Very nice, it looks like everything is going to work out perfect, bet it sounds great in a room like that, nothing like room for them to breathe. You make me want to paint some plastic !

[Rudy81]

Yes, they sound fantastic. It did not take me long to realize they are keepers. I spent the morning checking the performace with Blu Ray movies. I was concerned with lipsync issues due to the sub time delay. However, no issues at all and the timbre matching with the Klipsch effects and my center channel was very acceptable.

I later spent a few hours in just two channel with Audyssey Pro in the loop. Extremely good sound, although it was already darn good with my Jabo horns and Faital drivers. Biggest thing that jumped out at me was the overall quality of vocals. It is nice having the majority of vocals coming from a single driver and no crossover in the mix. Compared to the Jab/Faital combination, the sound is a little more laid back. Soundstage is huge, with a slightly wider sweet spot for imaging.

I am very fortunate to have a large room where I can play with the gear. It is nice to have room for a horn to breathe.

They are pretty to look at as well.

[finallygotmyheresies]

I made a 'mount' to support the entire horn from leftover plywood from my DBB project. Two cabinet door handles provide the support for the horn back chamber. I think it will work just fine once I finish putting everything together.

Nice idea for the stands. On the way you used the cabinet handles as the actual stand my Dad would say, "who'd of thunk it". I can definitely say that I would never have been that creative.

[Rudy81]

I'd love to take credit, but in my search for stands I saw something similar on some site. Google is a neat tool sometimes. I had originally planned on making a wood stand to support the back chamber. But, this is such a simple and effective idea, I had to try it.

I actually decided to add some small rubber grommets to provide softer support that wouldn't damage the paint and help to isolate the horn from the DBB bass bin. I also used some isolation pucks under the box to isolate vibrations. Probably not necessary, but just in case.

[moray james]

Rudy: I am so very pleased for you and happy that you have found yourself so much closer to your goal. You have made a great effort and see how well you have done. Not only that but your efforts have helped so many others more I imagine than we could guess. You have inspired many others and will continye to. You have gone all Frank on us and "Done it Your Way" which as you know is the only way and it is the hard way but oh the satisfaction. The feeling of earning your own respect for a job well done to fee a little pride in your efforts and to see and hear your acomplishments. Congratulations. Thank you and please keep posting for a little while longer as long as you can stay away from your new horns. You will have to spend some good bonding time soon I suppose. Best regards Moray James.

[Rudy81]

Moray James, thank you and I'm not sure I'm deserving of such accolades. Much of this was only possible with the help and hand holding of many of the usual suspects on this forum. What a great community! Always willing to help and teach. Truly in the spirit of PWK!

Of all the systems I have ever heard, the one that stuck in my mind the most was the sound of a set of Oris 150 horns I heard many years ago....I have been chasing that sound ever since. It is a 'different' sound from anything a compression driver and horn combination has done in my room. For sweet spot listening, I have not found any horn that does a better job of producing an accurate sound stage with excellent imaging than spherical horns. However, I also found that spherical horns are terrible for center channel use since they don't disperse dialog suitable for a modest sized room.That is why I have never changed my P. Audio center channel setup.

Funny thing is that the most expensive system I ever heard, was the one I liked the least! A $200,000 system with Wilson Audio speakers and tube mono block amps the size of college refrigerators.

Family day today, so more listening on another day. This project has turned out very well and would not have been possible if you guys had not turned me over to the dark side and helped me go active. The sound of an active system, IMHO, is much cleaner and purer than the passive systems I have owned, although less forgiving of problems like noise floor, ground loops etc.

I hope my three RSW-15s and Pro Cinema effects speakers keep my membership card valid as a Klipsch fan! [:$]

[Rudy81]

Rudy,

Can I ask how you time aligned? Did you use REW? Can you explain briefly how that app achieves time alignment?

Mark1101, ever since my response to you earlier in the thread, I have been swimming toward the deep end of the pool on this time alignment issue.

I have been reading everything I can get my hands on, as well as asking help from more knowledgeable folks. I have not been satisfied with the 'guess' work that I have had to do on this topic. The fact that we have the capability to acurrately measure and plot responses, has led me to better understand the issue. The bottom line is that we need to time and phase align the drivers in order to achieve the best possible results. Getting to that alignment is not easy and finding out how to do it has been my mission for the last week or so.

I am going to start a new thread once I get it all together for future reference and also to allow the more 'expert' in the group to critique what I will be doing.

The basic timing issue is as I described. Find the slowest signal and delay the others to match. Then, you can make minor phase adjustments to match driver phase at the crossover frequency. The problem has been how to 'accurately' find the slowest signal. Impulse response results turn out to be somewhat flawed in the LF region due to the slow propagation and time required for an LF signal to reach its peak. That leads to erroneous, normally too slow, readings.

I want accurate readings and after much reading have found how to implement a more accurate measurement. I am going to test this out this weeking and hope to get some good, reproduceable, results. I plan on posting a good explanation and step by step procedure.

[mark1101]

As I'm sure you know processors have delay in both time and distance. I simply use a tape measure to accurately measure the path lengths from voice coil to exit and enter the value (ex. MWM=74"). I also take all other measurements to correct FR at 3 ft. from the speaker. Everyone does these things differently. That is just how I do it.

I have not tried Audessy but I had an MEN220 that had a high end room calibration system and I hated it. It tried to make the room perform according to its pre-programmed FR curve. I suspect all these room correction systems do that to some extent. They also add reverb. It's just not for me. It's a cool Home Theater DSP trick and for movies and TV I agree it could be beneficial (for me). I just don't favor that stuff for music. Again, it's just me. Everyone is different. I favor a more raw sound like a band playing right in front of me. I listen to a lot of live music.

It would be interesting to get other's perspectives on processing and measurement techniques. Good call.

[Rudy81]

My goal is to learn a little more about acoustics in a home environment and more importantly to get the absolute most out of my gear. My goal is to get all the drivers time AND phase aligned. I have been reading about the various techniques that can be used to achieve the goal. I am going to work no this in a few days. Hopefully it will be worthwhile.

As far as Audyssey, yes, all these methods have some level of pre-programmed room correction. Audyssey Pro does offer more flexibility and allow me to select from 3 different curves and allows me to modify the selected curve at will +/- 3dB. The reason I use it is that the difference between Audyssey on and off is apparent in all the systems I have put together and the Audyssey 'On' provides a more natural sound to me. But I agree that YMMV and a lot of folks don't like what it does in a room

[dkalsi]

Rudy,

Just sent you an e-mail :-).

Thanks,

D

[kwingylee]

Rudy:

These look awesome. If I am ever in the DFW area for more than a day, I would love to swing by and take a listen.

What FREQ RANGE will these cover?

[Rudy81]

Rudy:

These look awesome. If I am ever in the DFW area for more than a day, I would love to swing by and take a listen.

What FREQ RANGE will these cover?

You are welcome any time!

I am currently running them from 204Hz to 20kHz. I have tested them down to 150Hz, but wanted to make sure the crossover region would not lose something as the frequency rolled off on the low side.

Here is a basic FR plot I made outside just to get an idea of the response. The plot is not smoothed, sweep run from 45Hz-20kHz.

[Arash]

is this graph measured at 1w/1m? if so, why SPL is that low?

[Rudy81]

is this graph measured at 1w/1m? if so, why SPL is that low?

No, I did not take the time to set everything to 1W/1, although the mic was roughly at 1m. I simply wanted to get a rough idea of what the horn could do. I was not concerned about the drivers ability to produce SPL. Based on what I have now heard now that they are set up in my room, they can certainly blow you out of the room if required. However, high SPL is not what my listening is about.

I guess I should be more scientific about my readings.

[Toon Army]

Does anyone know how much adding an Oris horn might add to the efficiency of the driver?

Paul

[djk]

About 4dB~6dB in the lower part of its range, decreasing to nothing above 1Khz or so.

[Toon Army]

Thanks again

[Toon Army]

I'm looking at pulling the trigger on some Oris 250 horns in the near future and I'm looking at the Tang Band 1772. Any reason to go with the 1808 over the 1772?

This will be used in a two way design.

[Rudy81]

I'm looking at pulling the trigger on some Oris 250 horns in the near future and I'm looking at the Tang Band 1772. Any reason to go with the 1808 over the 1772?

This will be used in a two way design.

Those two drivers are extremely close in specs. I suspect there would be little difference for the Oris application. About the only consideration I have heard mentioned is the Qts difference when being used in an open baffle application. Again, slight difference. I would not hesitate to use the 1772, particularly if I got a good deal on them.

[Toon Army]

That's good to hear. I'm trying to choose between the Tang Band and Audio Nirvana but AN is more expensive to start with (for neodymium) and will cost me customs charges (to UK). Love the thread, and your speakers. You've pushed me towards the Oris horns!

Thanks

Paul