Oris 150's have arrived !

[moray james]

Did they use hairspray to stiffen those paper horns?

No. here is the link to Inlow sound. http://www.inlowsound.com/ Arash i would fully expect a paper mache horn to easily outperform a plastic or even a wooden horn. The paper laminate has natural built in loss and very low energy storage. I guess in Iran every other person has vacuum thermoforming equipment but that's not the room here. Best regards Moray James.

[joessportster]

There is actually a guy with a dedicated site that makes paper horns although not in the fashion shown, he uses several layers of paper and the horns are much thicker and come out deader resonance wise for what he claims is a better sound i will look up the site and post a link

[joessportster]

thought i had it saved and here you go

http://inlowsound.weebly.com/

[Arash]

does anyone know which material is acoustically better for horns? ABS? PVC? Lacquer Plexiglass? I think white high quality ABS will result in a softer surface.

what thickness do you think is adequate for a horn? we used 6mm PVC 8USD/kg. it took 7kg for a horn (4.7kg after die-cut).

Edited August 1, 2014 by Arash

[Marvel]

I believe Bert D. uses ABS for his horns and they are about .25 inches so using 6mm should be just fine.

One's the cost of the mold is taken off, that's not a bad cost at all. I would think you could recoup your investment rather quickly.

Bruce

[Arash]

I believe Bert D. uses ABS for his horns and they are about .25 inches so using 6mm should be just fine.

One's the cost of the mold is taken off, that's not a bad cost at all. I would think you could recoup your investment rather quickly.

Bruce

I'll try some other materials and ABS with highest quality available to find the best choice. I want the softest surface possible and maximum accuracy in the shape with least tolerance. some Audiophiles in Iran are anxious to have their own horns. some have ordered Lowther and AER already! so there is no problem for the aluminum mold investment. the fist ten pairs will payoff all the money. btw, we titled the horns "Odin 148" as I like Norse myth a lot and as it's exactly identical to Oris 150 Bert designed but IT IS NOT a replica of Oris 150. Bert always claimed his horn has something magical but as we tried to calculate a tractrix flare spherical horn with 178mm throat and 148hz fc the final result was a ~730mm in mouth and ~410mm in depth horn. a close friend who had original Oris 150 was asking for the plan to turn a wooden horn. when I gave him the plan he came up with "man this is 99% an exact schema of Oris 150!". then he cut the flare on a plexiglass using laser router. he could confirm what we drew was Oris 150 but the Oris 150 overall diameter was a bit more. that difference was due to the minor modification at mouth edges. we added that "minor" to our horn. the fc is ~148hz. the final diameter is abit more than 78cm. Bert attempt to keep everything in an inner circle is understandable but he always tried to turn that "minor" to a big magical mystery

I would be happy if I can sent some of these horns to Klipsch forum members for a fair price in US if anyone is interested but have no idea about shipping cost. these need a 80cm x 80cm x 45cm packing box. I know Gothover and ALK have done a good job with eliptrac and I don't know if they could build a 78cm horn with CNC slices. if anyone can do such a thing, I would be happy to give any help.

Edited July 14, 2014 by Arash

[moray james]

thought i had it saved and here you go

http://inlowsound.weebly.com/

same site.

[Schu]

does anyone know which material is acoustically better for horns? ABS? PVC?

what about wood?

[Arash]

no way. a pair of 78cm round horn in real wood will cost +1000USD CNC-lathe work. I don't think you'll have them even for 2000USD. I can turn such a big wood piece of a special lathe to be cut with a pattern and pivot technique but I just can shape the outer side not inside.

[Schu]

Brass....

[moray james]

does anyone know which material is acoustically better for horns? ABS? PVC? Lacquer Plexiglass?

you could always use a damping material on what ever you choose to use. A relatively thin fiberglass horn could be made and then damped on the back side with dynamat or similar constrained layer damping. I have heard this done with older fiberglass EV horns and they sounded very good. I think I would be inclined to go with as stiff a thermoforming material as you can find and then damp the back side. So long as the horn is not presented with internal cabinet (woofer) back pressure you should not have any issues. You could also always build one of each material and do a listening shoot off to judge the best material. That would be your best option. Best regards Moray James.

[djk]

" manufactured from Stone Mineral Compound (SMC), a material used extensively in professional loudspeakers. SMC is twice as dense as common ABS,"

These are about 10mm thick:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Spheric-Wave-Tractrix-Traktrix-Horn-Tromba-30-cm-cf400Hz-1-1-4-1-5-2-/200683254562?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_77&var=&hash=item746c71cb0c#ht_2181wt_993

very poor of resonance, material: artificial stone

Edited July 15, 2014 by djk

[Arash]

Stereolab of Germany uses artifical stone for horns. it's some kind of very high density cement. they have no ringing of metal horns but I don't like to listen to a absolutely dense horn. I feel those horns cause beaming and maybe honkiness. maybe I'm wrong but it's what I feel. wood or ABS are better IMO. Rudy is using Oris 150 which is ABS. he can comment about them.

[Max2]

does anyone know which material is acoustically better for horns? ABS? PVC? Lacquer Plexiglass? I think white high quality ABS will result in a softer surface.

what thickness do you think is adequate for a horn? we used 6mm PVC 8USD/kg. it took 7kg for a horn (4.7kg after die-cut). it means 56USD for each horn + 20USD for thermoforming service and 10USD for die-cut, and 10-120USD for back chamber and mounting bracket. and of course ~5000USD for the aluminum mold!

Oris 150.JPG

I bet there are a few horn molds around there already. Im sure you can find a craftsman to make you a horn mold out of copper

[Guest David H]

I know Gothover and ALK have done a good job with eliptrac and I don't know if they could build a 78cm horn with CNC slices.

I have done large wood horn using the same process I developed for the Eliptrac.

Round horns are much easier to build, however I don't see a lot of need for a horn that large.

Arash, I see you have been doing some very nice work, keep it up.

Dave

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CUXFQk2uWi0&feature=plcp

[djk]

"Stereolab of Germany uses artifical stone for horns. it's some kind of very high density cement. they have no ringing of metal horns but I don't like to listen to a absolutely dense horn.

So, you like the sound of a horn ringing?

I feel those horns cause beaming and maybe honkiness."

Not true at all.

"maybe I'm wrong but it's what I feel. "

GMAFB

"wood or ABS are better IMO. "

The ABS rings. A heavy primer coat and top coat will help damp them.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Notes from the engineer from Orca design:

http://www.orcadesign.com/

All of the Klipsch SMC parts look to be injection molded plastic.
My guess is that it is common lowest cost HIPS, ABS or polypropylene with a 20% loading of talc (magnesium silicate), calcium carbonate or mica.Talc is the most widely used. Calcium carbonate is the heaviest.
Wollastonite mineral additive is the premium upgrade over talc and is widely used for automotive interior trim because it has the highest scratch resistance and best impact strength.

Several stone heavy plastic cabinets like B&W and POLK are made from molded "thermoset resin" loaded with glass spheres and calcium carbonate.This material is called "polyester bulk molding compound".
It is somewhat similar to Bondo but with better flow, higher plastic content and much finer particles to improve strength and toughness.It is also used in rotational molding and centrifugal casting.
You also see this material in plastic electrical outlet box.

Wilson Audio makes their cabinets from "paper stone" which is phenolic impregnated paper board.
Phenolic impregnated MDF and plywood are also available.
http://www.paperstoneproducts.com/
http://www.tchweb.com/tchstore/category/zyply/s0/510---Zyply.html
http://www.extira.com/

You have seen, "cultured marble" in counter tops, sinks and bath tubs.
polyester resin + marble dust
It is heavy and stiff but damping is too low.

All of these artificial stone products are a polyester resin base with added mineral fillers, stone aggregate, sand, garnet, granite dust, glass beads or glass fibers.
Combining different size, different density fillers can tune the damping.
To increase damping they can also add polyethylene fibers, flakes or beads.

Back in the 1980's I did a polyester resin prototype with 3M hollow glass micro-ballons and was amazed at the light weight and very high stiffness, totally dead plus it was tough enough to take a drywall screw without cracking.

Yes, also looked into it again around 1997 in a polyester resin + polyester regrind bulk molding compound - same stuff as those blue AC electricity wall boxes.
However, decided it was too expensive and ended up with the cheapest high impact polystyrene.

Edited July 16, 2014 by djk

[Rudy81]

Stereolab of Germany uses artifical stone for horns. it's some kind of very high density cement. they have no ringing of metal horns but I don't like to listen to a absolutely dense horn. I feel those horns cause beaming and maybe honkiness. maybe I'm wrong but it's what I feel. wood or ABS are better IMO. Rudy is using Oris 150 which is ABS. he can comment about them.

My Oris 150s don't seem to have any ringing issues that I note. However, I did follow the manufacturer directions on a good primer coat and several coats of paint with clear coat on top. The horns 'feel' more solid than when they arrived unpainted.

I too have built solid horns with MDF, but I had issues with a flaw in performance in a certain frequency range. I assumed it was due to my poor manufacturing process, which was done by hand, so I did not have a way to make the flare even close to 'perfect'. I still have those horns in the attic somewhere. They were, however, for a 2" driver. Quite a different animal in my experience vs. the 8" driver Oris.

I am still thrilled with my Oris setup, with open baffle LF. I am now focusing on maximizing performance with room treatments. You can follow that journey on my Room treatment thread.

[Arash]

Rudy I finally got the horns here!   oh man these things are really huge! superb build quality.

more pictures here

 

Edited February 25, 2015 by Arash

[Rudy81]

Rudy I finally got the horns here!   oh man these things are really huge! superb build quality.

more pictures here

 

BD-Deisign Horns arrival (15).jpg

 

Congratulations!  Yes, they are extremely well built and look great when finished.  Take your time putting them together.  Dry fit the pieces before gluing!

 

What drivers will you be using?  Keep me informed on the build please.

[Arash]

 

Rudy I finally got the horns here!   oh man these things are really huge! superb build quality.

more pictures here

 

BD-Deisign Horns arrival (15).jpg

 

Congratulations!  Yes, they are extremely well built and look great when finished.  Take your time putting them together.  Dry fit the pieces before gluing!

 

What drivers will you be using?  Keep me informed on the build please.

 

 

for sure. I'll use Tang Band TB-1772. Tang Band drivers are top notch quality and sounds good as well. I really like them. besides, AER and Lowther FR drivers are very expensive and I don't think I'll test them on Oris 150. they are just too rich for my blood. 1772 and 1808 perform very linear I don't see a point I'll spend tenths times more money for a driver which is some % more efficient.