Chris A Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 I agree with you wholeheartedly, Chris. However, sometimes using cables to overcome the shortcomings of a speaker (as in my case) or to fine-tune the performance of an otherwise fine speaker makes sense. It's cheaper, after all, than changing the speaker.Actually, after all is said and done, I've been talking much more about the amplifier used than the speaker balancing network properties.Have you considered using Zobel networks? Roy might be enticed into helping to rough out a design if you ask pleasantly. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnysal Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 I wont bother to post again the link the the tests nelson pass did on wires, he found measurable differences BUT, of course, that does not guarantee the differences will affect the sound. I would note that many folk who nay say wire often spend thousands of hours wringing their hands over tube rolling, sample rate, etc. all off which seem to me to fall into the same general basket. warm regards, tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erik2A3 Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 A zobel network is not that hard to design -- one needs some basic characteristics of the driver in question, which are not hard to obtain. I would also suggest using the 16 ohm secondary on a valve amp secondary is not the best idea when running a speaker with a nominal impedance of half that or less. 4ohm tap can be subjectively an Improvement in terms of potentially Improved low end response and woofer 'control.' But this may simply be a case of one person just not caring for the overall sound of a speaker (?). Does the Cornwall III exhibit a rising impedance? If it were that pronounced,, one (let me rephrase that....) I would think Klipsch would have already provided an impedance compensation circuit to iron that problem out. Other experiences might and probably do vary or differ, but I have not had the luxury of finding a length of wire that made an otherwise unsatisfactory overall design acceptable. The difference imposed was too subtle to make such a marked difference in long-term performance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boomzilla Posted March 21, 2013 Author Share Posted March 21, 2013 ...I have not had the luxury of finding a length of wire that made an otherwise unsatisfactory overall design acceptable... In general, Eric, I'd agree with you wholeheartedly. Speaker wires normally create but minimum differences in the sound. There are, however, wires that are so different as to be immediately (and far less minimally) audible. The two, in my case, were Kimber 12 TC and Nordost flat-wire. The former is a 12 ga. rope of woven, insulated wires. The latter is a 16 ga. (guessing) ribbon of insulated, parallel conductors. The two sound radically different on my rig. Whether the difference is due to gauge, to construction, or to interfaces with the speakers' crossovers or to interfaces with the (tube) amplifiers' transformers, I can't say. What I can say is that using the Kimber (which I have found to work extremely well with several other speakers), my Cornwalls' bass was excessive and sloppy sounding. Changing to the Nordost reduced the bass boom (which is NOT an artifact of room placement) and seemed to smooth out the lower midrange. Fortuitous circumstance? Probably, but who am I to blow against the wind (with apologies to Paul Simon)? Cordially - Boomzilla Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artto Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 buy the most expensive wires you can find... in that way, you can be sure you are getting the best Thanks, but Mrs. Young's idiot son has better sense! An idiot doesn't have better sense! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erik2A3 Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 Boomzilla: I can't help but say I do stand a bit corrected. There have been times, one in particular that I remember, when experimenting with different conductor materials revealed an almost unbearable result....if my admittedly occasionally short-lived acoustic memory serves me right. Pure silver was at first startlingly clear-sounding, with brilliant (as in white-light brilliance) HF and midrange response. Lots of shimmering hi-hat, ride cymbal detail, crisp guitar picking, finger movements on frets, and so forth. But it got tiring quickly and some earlier digital recordings were wincingly dry and etched. These were cables I made myself, using pure silver wire insulated in....what was it, some thin, slightly oversized PE or PVC tubing from the corner Home Depot, I think. I suspect what I was trying to suggest was that in most cases it might be a more worthwhile plan to find a pair of speakers that sound satisfactory as they are, where cables can be used to supplement their characteristics in a positive way. Otherwise we would be faced with starting with a bunch of wire, and through exhaustive trial and error auditioning various components that suit the tonal qualities of one's speaker cable and IC. So, who knows? Maybe I've been doing things backwards all these years! . I mentioned above that the Anti Cables I bought on a lark represented the biggest investment I've ever made in speaker cable ($80.00!), and that found them to be very balanced sounding with all of my SET amps and OTLs. When paired with my recent vintage restoration project, a Leak ST20, they had a noticeable upward tilt that, again, I liked initially, but found a little overbearing after a few hours of listening. The Leak does NOT fit a common conception of vintage tube amp (IMO). It has a very open, immediate, and 'present' sound quality, with well-defined and sharp (in a good way) high frequency detail and punchy low end response -- much like a vintage organon amp I like very much. In this case, a slightly less revealing or attenuated bit of wire worked better for extended listening. And apologies for the lack of paragraph breaks. I don't know what to do to fix it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odysseyrevolver Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 I use mithril speaker wire with my Cornwalls. Highly recommended. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boomzilla Posted March 23, 2013 Author Share Posted March 23, 2013 ...in most cases it might be a more worthwhile plan to find a pair of speakers that sound satisfactory as they are, where cables can be used to supplement their characteristics in a positive way... Hi Eric! I agree with you wholeheartedly. Unfortunately, in our eBay world, we must often buy gear without the benefit of prior audition. That's what happened to me with my Cornwall III speakers. Having owned Cornwall model ones in the past, I thought I knew what I was getting. I was wrong. Wires should NEVER be used to solve equipment deficiencies, but having invested in some VERY expensive speakers (for my budget, and without prior audition), trying to correct with wires is my least expensive option. I suspect that I shall ultimately fail and end up having to replace the speakers (sigh...). In any case, thank you for the thoughtful response. I appreciate it! Cordially - Boomzilla Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boomzilla Posted March 23, 2013 Author Share Posted March 23, 2013 I use mithril speaker wire with my Cornwalls. Highly recommended. Mithril? Source? Cost? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odysseyrevolver Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 Oh it's fairly expensive. Greater than the value of the whole Shire and everything in it, actually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boomzilla Posted March 24, 2013 Author Share Posted March 24, 2013 Well, bugger my hobbit; they OUGHT to sound good, then. Imaginary wires OR expensive wires whose only virtue is high cost just don't do it. Current game plan is to raise the Cornwalls on stands till the woofer/midrange are at ear level, send all bass below 80 Hz. to a subwoofer, swap my amplifier from tetrode to triode mode, and THEN fiddle with wires. Lamp cord may yet win out... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Youthman Posted March 24, 2013 Moderators Share Posted March 24, 2013 Although I haven't heard them myself, these Transparent set look nice. - Link Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schu Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 buy the most expensive wires you can find... in that way, you can be sure you are getting the best Thanks, but Mrs. Young's idiot son has better sense! An idiot doesn't have better sense! certainly does not have any sense... just take a look at that post^ at least boom seemed to have "gotten it" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornman Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 Boom, definitely try the Triode mode of your amp, I think you will be amazed with the change. That has always sounded best to my ears bi a large margin. Cornman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philly0116 Posted October 27, 2013 Share Posted October 27, 2013 Just buy these and move on. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Transparent-Audio-Reference-MM-V-Speaker-Cables-8-Pair-Gold-Spades-/161131676885 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NBPK402 Posted October 27, 2013 Share Posted October 27, 2013 I think it all comes down to inductance and resistance and shielding if near a TV or a power cord. I am going to just make a set of wires... I am going to try the twisted pair with another twisted pair over them (going the opposite direction), put some sheathing on (purely for looks). and call it a day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cradeldorf Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 Just buy these and move on. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Transparent-Audio-Reference-MM-V-Speaker-Cables-8-Pair-Gold-Spades-/161131676885 There's one born every minute... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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