CECAA850 Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 Dean I tried to e-mail you through your site. I had to do the "funny letter" thing 3 times. Don't know if it went through. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted February 17, 2014 Author Share Posted February 17, 2014 I have no schematic except for my scribbles from what Dennis told me on the phone. You can google "charge coupled crossover" or "DC biased crossover" and find quite a bit. Well, you can't attenuate the mids without changing that 6.8uF cap again. If all you have is a T2A, then all you can do is drop it down another 3dB, which makes the mids like a Heresy -- and I think that's too much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted February 17, 2014 Author Share Posted February 17, 2014 I think I need to email myself through the site and see what this "funny email" business is all about - I've had a few complaints about this. If you have a 400Hz horn (it's not a CornScala if you don't), the speaker should be "balanced". Remember though, like the Cornwall, it requires room gain to make it sound "right" to the human ear - you can get 3dB or more increase in bass output depending on placement. How "hot" is hot? You just need some nice paper in oils. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dude Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 Speaking of hot, I am currently giving the Cornscala/wall network in my system ( at least I think that is the current one out from Al on the road show). Anyway, when I first turn on the system, everything mainly voices seem right in my face. Like wow, I don't think I ever need a center channel. But after a while it seems like normal listening. Could someone explain this to me, or maybe explain what might be going and what to try different( not saying its a problem may I might like this but don't know yet). From what I can tell I have the taps, set to what should be standard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaddeus Smith Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 Did you move the taps from where I had them set? I left them as-is from ALK, which he stated was a best guess. They were a little hot in my setup, but I couldn't be bothered to undo the back panels for a jumper change. You may want to try moving the jumpers down a bit. I don't recall it mellowing out after a period of listening. btw, the roadshow crossovers are Cornwall only, not Cornscala compatible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted February 17, 2014 Author Share Posted February 17, 2014 (edited) The crossover that Al built is for the Cornwall, not the CornScala. What's the difference? The Cornwall uses a 600Hz horn and stock drivers. The CornScala uses a 400Hz horn and so many different drivers that I've lost track. Al offers a different crossover for the CornScala, which has the different crossover point. Now, there's nothing saying that you can't use that crossover with a CornScala, but if you aren't using a stock midrange driver, then yeah, it's going to be screaming at you -- which of course is the purpose of the adjustable midrange -- which Al probably sent out 6dB down (red input wire on -0 and black output wire on 6). If it's too hot, just fix it! Did he send the manual out with the crossover which explains how the autoformer and wiring scheme works -- it's not the same as it used to be. My Super AA works the same way now (which is different than the ones that are being shipped around, which work the same as the original Universal). I know this seems confusing, but I had to push Al into making some changes that were really being driven by what all of the DIY guys are doing with these different loudspeakers. We have different drivers, different horns, and different combinations of those that necessitated more specialization in the crossovers that were being offered. The budgetary constraints that many are under now also play a bigger factor. Al and me have our differences, but we both agree that in the present climate, most aren't going to be able to pony up the dough for our higher end stuff -- so we are try to maximize the performance to dollar ratio. So, I suggested to Al that he expand the CornScala-Wall Universal to include different crossover points, and then started aggressively pursuing the charge coupled approach as my own low cost/high performance solution. I would rather close up shop than sit at my bench every night building stuff that I know I'd never put in my own system. Right now, those who are interested in higher performance or better sounding aftermarket crossovers have a bit of a learning curve to deal with, but it's really not that bad. I'm currently working on a matrix of sorts for my stuff to help people out, and I think Al needs to clean up his Universal page. I thought he should just drop the "CornScala-Wall" designation because all of those networks are not for the CornScala. Think of them all as affordable Universals with different' crossover points. On that note, I am no longer building my version of the Universal. The licensing fee I had to pay Al, along with the cost of the parts I preferred to use, just made it too difficult to move. I also started getting email from people wanting me to justify the price difference and explain the differences in sound to them. This now meant I was competing with Al with his own design, and it exacerbated the problem I have with Al regarding the parts issue -- it was stupid. I build the way I do for a reason. If I didn't believe the differences in parts made a difference, I wouldn't build with them. If someone wants something from me which allows for adjustable attenuation, I have the Super AA. If tweeter attenuation is needed, I can do it with a fixed L-pad using much higher quality resistors, or you can order the transformer based units directly from Al. Personally, I think anyone playing with tweeters should have a pair of those anyways. Having those units fixed to a crossover means you can only use them with that particular crossover, which isn't real helpful if you decide to change out crossovers. I understand that the hardest thing for you guys to do is to make what should be a simple choice, but you have five different vendors, using different approaches, and about a dozen or more choices alone for the Heritage stuff. I know this charge coupling thing doesn't help any, and I'm really sorry about that -- hopefully by the end of next weekend I'll have a page or two finished on the site that sorts all of this out. I already have a pretty good idea of which way I'm going to go with all of this, and all I can say is that there won't be any losers. Edited May 9, 2014 by DeanG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest David H Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 (edited) If you have a 400Hz horn (it's not a CornScala if you don't), Is that what the Cornscala is? I thought it was a conglomerate of just about anything you pair with Cornwalls ported bass cab. The fact of the matter is, the Cornwall woofer easily gets to 600hz, where several horns and driver combos can not make it to 400hz clean. Personally I think it wiser to cross higher, rather than push for a lower crossover point and sacrifice sound. Since Bob Crites is best know for the Cornscala ie. driver test box, maybe he will shine the light on the actual definition of Cornscala. Dave Edited February 17, 2014 by GotHover Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest David H Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 Now, there's nothing saying that you can't use that crossover with a CornScala, but if you aren't using a stock midrange driver, then yeah, it's going to be screaming at you This seems to be a trend in the crossover road show. If the attenuations setting are not properly adjusted, how can you properly evaluate the crossovers performance? With the numerous driver combinations being used there is going to need to be some guidelines in place, hopefully better than a guess. I think Dean was trying to come up with a guide in a previous thread, now I fully understand why. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 How "hot" is hot? I catch myself turning the volume knob down as opposed to up. It's a little unpleasant, I expected more from this configuration. The mids don't sound near as nice or "balanced" as you say, as my Lascalas. The Lascalas have a stock mid horn and driver but ALK Universals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaddeus Smith Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 (edited) Now, there's nothing saying that you can't use that crossover with a CornScala, but if you aren't using a stock midrange driver, then yeah, it's going to be screaming at you This seems to be a trend in the crossover road show. If the attenuations setting are not properly adjusted, how can you properly evaluate the crossovers performance? With the numerous driver combinations being used there is going to need to be some guidelines in place, hopefully better than a guess. I think Dean was trying to come up with a guide in a previous thread, now I fully understand why. Dave And if I had invested in these for the long term, I most surely would have spent the time to dial in attenuation. Since I was only holding onto them for a couple of weeks and had no prior understanding of what my preferences. However, even with the attenuation a little hot they ALK's were far superior to my stock crossovers - so in that regard it was a successful test. The original networks in my Cornwalls were obviously out of spec, so the Universals sounded great by comparison. The reworked B-2's seem have a different slope profile and the added charge coupling, which I like better than the Universals. we need to develop some sort of easy clamping system for the cornwalls so that it's not so painful to open up the back panels for minor tweaks. Edited February 17, 2014 by Thaddeus Smith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest David H Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 Would it be too much to ask, when reviewing these crossover to list the horns and drivers being used, as some may not be suited for the crossovers being used. For instance I see a lot of Cornscala's out there that have the Selenium D-405 driver coupled to the JBL 2380 clone horn. This combo is not compatible with a 6k crossover because the D-405 start to roll off around 4K, and it has a rated SPL of 111. This is going to use a bit more attenuation than the K-55, and requires a different crossover point. For this combination, ALK offers a 400hz-4khz crossover option. SPECIFICATIONS Nominal impedance. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 W Minimum impedance @ 3,450 Hz . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6.3 W Power handling Musical Program (w/ xover 800 Hz 12 dB / oct)1 . . . . 200 W Musical Program (w/ xover 1,200 Hz 12 dB / oct)1. . . 250 W Sensitivity On horn, 2.83V@1m, on axis2. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 111 dB SPL On plane-wave tube, 0.0894V3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 113 dB SPL Frequency response @ -10 dB . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 400 to 20,000 Hz Throat diameter . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 50 (2) mm (in) Diaphragm material . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Titanium Voice coil diameter . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 100 (4) mm (in) Re . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4.8 W Flux density . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1.70 T Minimum recommended crossover (12 dB / oct). . . . . . . . . 800 Hz Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaddeus Smith Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 It was clearly stated when Dean announced the ALK crossovers for a roadshow that they were for stock Cornwalls only. Cornscalas shouldn't be on the table for discussion, as it relates to the current set of roadshow crossovers out in the wild. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muel Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 The default settings for the ALK cornscala-wall network were a little hot for my taste even when used with the k600 horn. I thought I listed the attenuation settings I used in another thread along with what horns and drivers... maybe I just thought about it and never posted. I'll have to check. I suggest a power screwdriver for your Cornwall backs! I thought Dean's Cornwall roadshow networks had adjustable attenuation. Did I misunderstand? Getting hard to keep track. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest David H Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 (edited) It was clearly stated when Dean announced the ALK crossovers for a roadshow that they were for stock Cornwalls only. Cornscalas shouldn't be on the table for discussion, as it relates to the current set of roadshow crossovers out in the wild. I guess I missed that. Seems that Dean has already got this covered. My mistake. Dave Edited February 17, 2014 by GotHover Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaddeus Smith Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 (edited) The default settings for the ALK cornscala-wall network were a little hot for my taste even when used with the k600 horn. I thought I listed the attenuation settings I used in another thread along with what horns and drivers... maybe I just thought about it and never posted. I'll have to check. I suggest a power screwdriver for your Cornwall backs! I thought Dean's Cornwall roadshow networks had adjustable attenuation. Did I misunderstand? Getting hard to keep track. The Cornwall roadshow networks are straight from ALK. They are not cornscala compatible. They have attenuation settings. Instructions for the attenuation settings were included. Edited February 17, 2014 by Thaddeus Smith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 we need to develop some sort of easy clamping system for the cornwalls so that it's not so painful to open up the back panels for minor tweaks. 3 sets of binding posts and exterior crossovers. It's a shame to hide Deans work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaddeus Smith Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 we need to develop some sort of easy clamping system for the cornwalls so that it's not so painful to open up the back panels for minor tweaks. 3 sets of binding posts and exterior crossovers. It's a shame to hide Deans work. you have a very good point. I may do just that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muel Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 Ok, I understand that Dean said that these are for the Cornwall only and not Cornscalas. I just want to understand why... he just wanted peoples comments on Cornwall installations and not the many Cornscala configurations? Unless these have been changed somehow they would be perfectly compatible with Cornscalas and I am current using them as such. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dude Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 I have Cornwalls not Cornscalas, sorry just got the name wrong of the crossover network. I should all so clear up, yes I had the black wire on 6 and the red wire on 0 is this correct for standard b networks for the Cornwalls. Second I had noticed the tweeter attenuation was on -3 so I moved it down to 0 as well. Should I increase the attenuation on both or just try the tweeter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 Ok, I understand that Dean said that these are for the Cornwall only and not Cornscalas. I just want to understand why... he just wanted peoples comments on Cornwall installations and not the many Cornscala configurations? Unless these have been changed somehow they would be perfectly compatible with Cornscalas and I am current using them as such. Can't speak for Dean specifically but I believe he uses a different crossover point for the Cornscala mid horn as opposed to stock Cornwall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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