tube fanatic Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 A guy down the road has two pairs of CWIIs, so he decided to set up one pair as a dedicated 2 channel near-field system (6 foot equilateral triangle) driven by his Rogue Stereo 90 in triode mode which is fed by mono passive line attenuators and switchable high frequency filters (for recordings which cause "ear bleed".) I have to say it was impressive with pinpoint imaging and a huge soundstage. My concern was that the sound would lose some coherence due to the spacing between the woofer and the other drivers, but it didn't prove out. For fun, we even tried a little 350 mw/channel SET that I've been prototyping for another CW owner who is interested in near-field listening, and it was capable of playing loudly and cleanly enough to drive me out of the room! I'll have to go back and actually measure how much power is needed for a given spl; it's going to be extremely low! Just posting this in case anyone has wanted to try such an arrangement but was hesitant. It works, and works well! Maynard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 (edited) If you like good soundstage, you might mention to your friend to try releasing the tweeters in their CWII cabinets and placing them on the cabinet tops but with the teeter driver/horn junction vertically aligned with the midrange driver/horn junction inside the cabinet below. The stereo soundstage should just "pop" or explode when you get them adjusted correctly. They will sound even better mounted in small baffles on top of the cabinets, like the ones that Marvel uses. It's called time alignment--and it's pretty dramatic once you hear it. Highly recommended. Chris Edited November 10, 2013 by Cask05 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 A guy down the road has two pairs of CWIIs, so he decided to set up one pair as a dedicated 2 channel near-field system (6 foot equilateral triangle) driven by his Rogue Stereo 90 in triode mode which is fed by mono passive line attenuators and switchable high frequency filters (for recordings which cause "ear bleed".) I have to say it was impressive with pinpoint imaging and a huge soundstage. My concern was that the sound would lose some coherence due to the spacing between the woofer and the other drivers, but it didn't prove out. For fun, we even tried a little 350 mw/channel SET that I've been prototyping for another CW owner who is interested in near-field listening, and it was capable of playing loudly and cleanly enough to drive me out of the room! I'll have to go back and actually measure how much power is needed for a given spl; it's going to be extremely low! Just posting this in case anyone has wanted to try such an arrangement but was hesitant. It works, and works well! Maynard I do the same with my Cornwalls. But they are about 7 feet apart, and I sit back about 7.5 feet away from them. (not quite the equilateral triangle) I've used a 2A3 SET stereo amp, a 45 SET breadboard stereo amp, and single-ended 6BQ5 amplifiers. My little modded Magnavox 8600 series 6BQ5 SEP seems to sound really nice with my Cornwalls. 350 milliwatts would seem a bit low for my tastes, but I'm not quite near-field. I had some rather good results from a breadboard stereo amplifier using a 71A (with DC heated filaments) and LaScalas, but never tried it with the Cornwalls. 750-800 milliwatts seemed a bit lowish... The Cornwalls do put off a large soundstage, and the imaging can be rather good. But I've had better imaging with a ever so slight smaller soundstage using Coaxials in the same configuration propped up at ear level. Set-up right, coaxials can be like headphones for near-field listening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tube fanatic Posted November 10, 2013 Author Share Posted November 10, 2013 Thanks for the suggestion Chris. I mentioned it to him and he may play around with that over the winter when he has more free time. Mike, 350 mw is definitely flea power! The guy who wants the amp typically listens at levels from maybe 68-72 db tops, so at roughly 6 feet from the CWs it's way more than enough power, with lots of headroom to spare. His budget is only in the low $200 range and he wants all new parts, cheap and easy to find tubes, and a separate power supply! So, I've had to do some juggling, but it's working out great. I like challenges! Maynard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted November 11, 2013 Share Posted November 11, 2013 Mike, 350 mw is definitely flea power! The guy who wants the amp typically listens at levels from maybe 68-72 db tops, so at roughly 6 feet from the CWs it's way more than enough power, with lots of headroom to spare. His budget is only in the low $200 range and he wants all new parts, cheap and easy to find tubes, and a separate power supply! So, I've had to do some juggling, but it's working out great. I like challenges! Maynard It reminds of the power output from a dissimilar triode like a 6EM7/6EA7. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebes Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 Great report from Maynard, who by the by is helping me build a SEP amp described in a recent post of mine. Loaded up my Cornwalls with a EL84 push-pull this weekend which might make 10 watts a on a good day and was pleased. While Cornwalls are robust enough to be forgiving of lower power, I'm still amazed that you could be driving properly with such a miniscule power source. Looks like I''ll find out a bit about this later this year after the build. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 (edited) Try pulling the Cornwall's about 10' off a back wall and spacing them about 10' apart in a very large room for some spectacular nearfield listening sometime! A few beers makes it all the better! About 6 of us did this at a Klipsch pilgrimage one year in the old dumpy hotel we had a party in. The room was pitch black other then the glow of KT-88's..... It was so dark we could not see the speakers and it was nearly impossible to pin point where they were. The sound stage was stunning! The beauty of Cornwall's is they need no wall for bass response. Edited November 12, 2013 by NOSValves Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schu Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 agreed with keeping the CW's off the wall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shakeydeal Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 The beauty of Cornwall's is they need no wall for bass response. Agreed. People that have them shoved up against the wall or in a corner dont' know what they are missing out on. Shakey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 (edited) I have a suggestion for those that are recommending pulling CWs out away from the walls: you might benefit from implementing some of the acoustic treatments mentioned in the Corner Horn Imaging FAQ, IMHO. Moving them away from the wall or corners significantly increases their bass modulation distortion levels. I'd bet that you have near-field reflection problems if you find that you like them more by moving them out. I'd first recommend moving everything within six feet of the speakers away from them first while they are in the corners or on the front wall, then listening again. This includes any equipment racks between the speakers or TV panels. Chris Edited November 12, 2013 by Cask05 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shakeydeal Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 Mine is a dedicated room for audio. No honking big screen television. No A/V receivers No huge entertainment center I have tube traps, corner tunes and room tunes panels at the first reflection points. This is a well treated and very good sounding room. I assure you the cornwalls and my current cornscalas sound better when not in the corner or against the wall. I could make a believer out of you in a very few minutes. Shakey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 Picture? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shakeydeal Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 I don't have any recent pics, I will work on that. Shakey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shakeydeal Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 As promised, here is a shot of Cornscalas NOT against the wall or in a corner. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schu Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 What are you drinking there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebes Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 As promised, here is a shot of Cornscalas NOT against the wall or in a corner. Nice setup. Are those a bass trap of sorts in the corners and are the white things on poles also room treatments? Oh, and how come you don't have your speaker wires up on little wooden feet. What are you anti-audiophile? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shakeydeal Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 The drink of choice is Jack Daniels and coke. The things in the corners are bass traps. Those are Room Tunes panels at the first reflection points. Shakey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigerwoodKhorns Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 I have a suggestion for those that are recommending pulling CWs out away from the walls: you might benefit from implementing some of the acoustic treatments mentioned in the Corner Horn Imaging FAQ, IMHO. Moving them away from the wall or corners significantly increases their bass modulation distortion levels. I'd bet that you have near-field reflection problems if you find that you like them more by moving them out. I'd first recommend moving everything within six feet of the speakers away from them first while they are in the corners or on the front wall, then listening again. This includes any equipment racks between the speakers or TV panels. Chris I was thinking the same thing. Not trying to stir the pot here but any decent system should have speakers that dissappear, as in you really can't tell where the speakers are at all. My speakers are a few feet from each wall and you cannot tell where they are at all. I am at my desk right now and on my office system you cannot tell where the speakers are at all either and they are against a wall (they are about 8 feet apart and a bunch of stuff on my desk probably breaks up waves). Does this have anything to do with the wide motorboard on the CW? All of my "other" speakers go to great lengths to narrow or eliminate the motorboard (especially B&W), including a pair of Klipsch speakers that I have. I ask because I have some project horn speakers (K Horns and La Scalas) and I am thinking that these will have free standing horns on top and no motorboard. Roger waters has a CD, "Aumsed to death" that has a track that is very good for judging imaging. Craig, you had mentioned moving speakers 10' feet from the walls. THat really works wonders if you have that luxury. I did that once with an old pair of B&W's (1980's) and a modest tube amp (Jolida). On the Amused to Death CD there were sounds that seemed to come from 8' behind me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 My LaScalas sounded the best in my room (not large - 13 x 20) when they were only about three feet apart. and about five feet from the back wall (which was a cross hallway). Or maybe I had just imbibed a little bit too much, which is entirely possible. Bruce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shakeydeal Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 I've seen videos on Youtube of LaScalas three feet apart. I have to laugh out loud...... Shakey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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