Where Does It All End.......

[Rudy81]

I'm in the North Texas area. I know Bert is singing the Orphean's praises these days since they grace the top of his Orelino wave guide.....he just put that out.

I have not heard the Orphean system, but I don't think it could go low enough to match your Khorn bass bins. The 150's will work very well however. Your next project will be to chose drivers for the Oris.

After many years of tweaking, upgrading, downgrading and building, the Oris horns are my favorite. I fell in love with them the first time I heard them and should just have saved myself a lot of trouble and money and gotten them years ago.

[Cut-Throat]

I'm in the North Texas area. I know Bert is singing the Orphean's praises these days since they grace the top of his Orelino wave guide.....he just put that out.

I have not heard the Orphean system, but I don't think it could go low enough to match your Khorn bass bins. The 150's will work very well however. Your next project will be to chose drivers for the Oris.

After many years of tweaking, upgrading, downgrading and building, the Oris horns are my favorite. I fell in love with them the first time I heard them and should just have saved myself a lot of trouble and money and gotten them years ago.

Actually, the Orphean System crosses over at 270 hz........Plenty low enough for the Khorn Bass Bins.....I am running them at 400 hz. now (And yes it could be better than that)........ I don't need to choose drivers as I ordered the complete Orphean System. Which includes the Horns, Drivers and Passive Crossover for the Dirver's Midrange and tweeter. They are the BMS 4592ND

Actually most all Horns are my Favorites !! I have heard a lot of good ones..... We'll see if the Oris Horns can top my Altec Multicells. I hope they do, but you never know until you get them into your system.

Edited December 13, 2013 by Cut-Throat

[Rudy81]

Let us know how they sound when you get them set up. I did not realize the Orphean could go that low.....should be a very nice setup.

[ClaudeJ1]

In my own experience, and in the experience of friends and other that I have seen on forums, it ends like this.

You go through years of upgrading and changing out components, and finally hit a plateau where you can either make a major change (like speakers, or amps which will then require several other changes) or just be happy and stay where you are.

When this happens, if you choose the later, a major "downgrade" usually happens soon afterward. Many wind up selling most of the super expensive gear and settle in on a system that is much less than what they had, and they are just as happy. This was my experience and I have seen and known others who did the same thing.

Not me. I started with a 4-way passive and may end up with a 2-way active with PEQ's and time delays. But I will not give up quality in the process.

[ClaudeJ1]

Good points Guys.

I feel a need to do this, maybe a catharsis or something, so here is what I have been pondering. Feel free to set me straight.

I've often wondered if most of the folks here have as much money in their music as they do in their gear. I spend a lot of time and a little money trying to get the right sound from my system, buying this, upgrading that, and then am at a lost as to what I want to hear....again.

OB use to say "its' all about the music" but I have to answer that question for myself by saying "is it"? I guess I am more a gear head than a music lover in that I like to find the right recording to make the system I cobbled together the best it can be. Not as much time is spent assembling a great music collection. And of what music I do have hundreds of CDs and even more LPs sit on the shelf collecting dust. Honesty hurts.........

I find this hobby entertaining and thought provoking (as you can see), I have been a member of three different audio forums and appreciate the time spent reading and learning about all things audio. I even enjoy scheming as to how I can keep some of my 50 plus year old gear alive.

And while I am rambling....something Dean said about how revealing the jubilee system is bothers me. If the Jube makes the majority of one's recordings sound unlistenable by revealing too much.....then where are we? Has the 'top shelf' hardware now surpassed the availability of good source material. Have we arrived at "near live" reproduction capabilities only to find we have little to play on these dream systems?

That stream of thought leads me to ponder Dave's ideas about live recording as mentioned in the quad adaptor thread I believe. I must pull some of the Maple shade CDs recorded live, in house, on analog equipment to see how good they are.

Okay gents...answer all this then off to you Christmas parties!

If you like the music well enough, you will have your reference recordings and discover the truth about the rest, but you can still listen past the flaws if the music is good enough. Sometimes people sell off great, revealing gear, like a Jube setup simply because they need the money. Been there, done that.

[ClaudeJ1]

More resolving systems render more recordings unlistenable, it is true. So make sure what you wish for.

I always have to have a hobby and have been doing woodwork and home improvement, and really enjoyign motorcycles. There will always be soemthing, but the audio upgrade path is pretty much over for me, at least as far as really expensive gear.

I have old beater La Scalas and K Horns that I will restore someday, just need to finish the house, then the shop, then buy more tools...

If you want less resolution, then you can just get into building direct radiator speakers. That will take the edge off those nasty bad recordings for sure.

[ClaudeJ1]

For me, I want to enjoy the music. I don't obsess over the equipment. My toes will get a tappin' with cheap pc speakers on occasion... then I know the music is good.

Wardsweb is correct, in that it is all in what WE have. Sort of falls along the lines of the recenlty passed guitarist Jim Hall. It isn't about al the notes you put in, but the space you leave around the ones you play. Could I enjoy a better system? Sure I could! On the otherhand, I could enjoy the one I have without ever buying anything else. At this point in my life it would be like retiring and still going into debt on a NEW retirement home.

Bruce

I had the same, identical setup as PWK himself (went to his house and heart it) for over 30 years. 2PH3 with a LaScala in the middle at about -6 db with the same box that Paul built (saw that too). I didn't get into all this upgrade crap until I met some of you audio geeks here and at the Pilgrimages. Then I was off on the treadmill, including 4 MWMs woofers I drove to Ottawa to get for gosh sakes. Still the best 3 things I have done in this journey is 1) get Danley DTS-10 subs 2) get K402 horns with Klipsch K-1133 drivers, and figure out how to use the Audyssey XTR on my Onkyo receiver (global feedback). BUT you have to have a decent room to do it.

[ClaudeJ1]

I'm in the North Texas area. I know Bert is singing the Orphean's praises these days since they grace the top of his Orelino wave guide.....he just put that out.

I have not heard the Orphean system, but I don't think it could go low enough to match your Khorn bass bins. The 150's will work very well however. Your next project will be to chose drivers for the Oris.

After many years of tweaking, upgrading, downgrading and building, the Oris horns are my favorite. I fell in love with them the first time I heard them and should just have saved myself a lot of trouble and money and gotten them years ago.

Actually, the Orphean System crosses over at 270 hz........Plenty low enough for the Khorn Bass Bins.....I am running them at 400 hz. now (And yes it could be better than that)........ I don't need to choose drivers as I ordered the complete Orphean System. Which includes the Horns, Drivers and Passive Crossover for the Dirver's Midrange and tweeter. They are the BMS 4592ND

Actually most all Horns are my Favorites !! I have heard a lot of good ones..... We'll see if the Oris Horns can top my Altec Multicells. I hope they do, but you never know until you get them into your system.

I do believe that all you need to do is EQ the Khorn bass bin, which, unless you get the Jubilee Bass bin, you cannot improve it. So upping the midrange to a lower crossover point is a GREAT approach to improving the corner horn sound, but it's not a full Khorn anymore, and THAT is just fine by me. The midrange is where we live........PWK.

[tigerwoodKhorns]

Why you buncha mamby pamby, skirt wearing, lickspittle, negativist, spoiled, whinning, tutu prancing, mime loving poor excuses for audiophiles. I'm almost ashamed to even be associated with such a bunch of tentative, hesitant, oh gosh, oh glory grandmothers masquerading as intelligent, affirmative and, lol, decisive arbitrators of all things audio.

Man up girlies. Westminster, sounds like something an English fop would own. Oh I have old Khorns that poor little ole me will have to get around to restoring someday.

I need to say it again. BAN THEBES!!!

[thebes]

Tarheel's loaded, Tiger's drilling a block of wood and Claude's seemingly talking to himself...again.

Me I'm listening to a Pickwick pressing of all things. Not known at all for fidelity, re-release of some early Ohio Player monos. Some good cuts, some stellar.

There's this trumpet solo, on their version of "Summertime". It's way off on the left channel, and it's so real I can envision the muscle movement of the players lips and throat. Sheer magic.

If you are only in it for the gear, there are other forms of toys to play with. I suspect, though, if you scratch a gearhead hard enough, you'll find a seeker. of life, seeker of a mood, a seeker of those parts of ourselves that can only be revealed through music.

Oor perhaps somebody just trying to get his significant other warmed up enough for a little fun on a Frieda night.

And if the latter is the case, then it's only fitting and proper. This is the U S of A after all. We get more quality action on a Friday night than any poor hustler in a North Korean disco can over hope to get.

[Tarheel]

That's all true Marty.....loaded and trying to get the SO warmed up.

Claude....come back tomorrow....I'll talk with you then.

Good luck on the wood thing Tiger!

Cut-Throat is stroking his Oris horns.

Martin....don't you have tubes to test?

Good night gentlemen.

Edited December 14, 2013 by Tarheel

[The Dude]

That's all true Marty.....loaded and trying to get the SO warmed up.

I read it helps to let them keep their socks on, as goofy as it sounds it helps keep them warm so other things come off.

[The Dude]

And if the latter is the case, then it's only fitting and proper. This is the U S of A after all. We get more quality action on a Friday night than any poor hustler in a North Korean disco can over hope to get.

Better watch what you say, if you ever go over there for a visit they may keep you. We may just let them to, then again they probably have computers over there with dial up. So we probably would still see you around, but with tubes sticking out of your ears( I heard they have a large quantity of military tubes over there).

[derrickdj1]

Well enough of that audio talk and hand wringing for tonight......the tubes must be warm by now.....and maybe just two fingers of Makers Mark. Cheers gentlemen!

Now the Makers Mark is a good place to put some money. It will make any upgrade sound good, lol.

[Islander]

At some point on the upgrade path, you'll say two things.

First, "Man, this sounds good!"

Second, "Man, I've spent a lot of money!"

At that point, the next thing I thought to myself was, "Good enough!"

Everyone's point of "good enough" is different, but when you reach it, you'll know. I'm happy to listen to the music, without a compulsion to be continually swapping out parts in hopes of improving the system. I did do a lot of swapping to get to this point, but now it impresses me every time I turn it on. I turn it on, and it turns me on.

Also, any big step up from here would be pretty costly, so I've reached a sweet spot of sorts. It has taken seven years, from the day I spotted the pair of La Scalas in the vintage hi-fi shop, to what I'm listening to today. Many of the purchases were not sought out. Sometimes I would just happen to spot a listing that caught my eye, like the La Scala IIs last summer. I hadn't planned on getting a pair of those, since they seemed to be beyond my budget, but one day an affordable pair appeared. Patience has really paid off for me.

Another example is the time a forum member from Missouri, who had once been to Vancouver Island, spotted a pair of Belles for sale, only 15 minutes away from my location, and alerted me. Within a week or so, they were in my living room. The forum has been a great help in many ways.

As for modding the Tannoy Westminster Royals, there could be a couple of ideas at work. Some people think "stock is junk", no matter how good the stock item might be. Then there are the types who think they're too good to have stock anything, so they mod their stuff to stroke their egos.

It's possible to convince yourself that nothing in stock form is really satisfactory, whether it be a Rolls-Royce car or Boulder amp. Go for it if it matters that much to you. I'll be sitting here listening to my music with a smile on my face while you fret.

Edited December 15, 2013 by Islander

[ClaudeJ1]

Good points, Islander. I got spoiled by MWM bottoms. Between K402 and 510, the 402 is a better horn. My bottoms now a close enough to LaScalas, so I have a 3-way version of what you have with a bigger top and more bottom because I have room for it, which wasn't the case 2 months ago. Anyway, I did improve my sound as much as anyone. I agree about spending more money and time acquiring and listening to new and old music.

[derringmusik]

Interesting thread. Some audio enthusiasts are constantly in the pursuit of greater audio "perfection". Of course, there is no perfect audio system, there is only personal preference. Audio reproduction is only an approximation of the real event. This obsession can lead to an endless series of component changes in the hope that incremental improvements in fidelity will be realized. This can culminate in listening more to the equipment than listening to the music.

The Tannoy Westminster speakers (and many other high end speakers) are extraordinarily expensive, but that doesn't guarantee that they will recreate recorded music with true fidelity. Some of these high end speakers don't come close to capturing the real music event, despite their phenomenal cost and hype. You would think that as the ultimate expression of Tannoy's audio philosophy, there would be virtually no further refinements possible in Westminster, but there are many audiophiles who tweak them to "improve" their performance. This is especially true in Asia where the Tannoy Prestige speakers are popular. To my ear, the Tannoy Prestige speakers produce a sound that is inherently artificial, colored, recessed, and dissatisfying. I've heard speakers at a fraction of the cost that sound more natural, transparent, and musical. But to each his own.

There's also a disturbing belief in high end audio that higher price equates with better performance. This is reinforced by the audio press through annual lists of recommended components and buyer's guides. And a trend for audio companies to make minimal changes in speaker/component design, to release a new improved version with modest changes in performance accompanied by a major increase in price.

Sit back, relax, and enjoy the music.

Cheers!